Cooper and suppressor threading problem - baffle strikes

[fwafwow]

Yeah, I would be more inclined to believe that the problem is the adapter, not the threads on the barrel or the can.
If there are enough threads on the barrel and enough of a shoulder, not having a relief shouldn't cause any misalignment (unless those threads are really loose).
The other thing to check is that the threads are concentric to the bore.

With the number of readily available cans that you can change the mounting options on, I wouldn't be using an adapter at all.

The threads are said to be concentric by Cooper. My understanding was the barrel wasn’t thick enough to provide enough shoulder, which was part of the reason I understood an adapter was needed.

 

[fwafwow]

Bore alignment rods are cheap compared to the damage that can be done and the time without a suppressor they cause. If you don’t want to buy an alignment rod find a good gunsmith and they can check it and possibly fix any problems before shooting it and finding them.

I have to admit I did not consider a bore alignment rod. As for finding a good gunsmith, I thought the rifle manufacturer would suffice.

The rifle is on the way back to TBAC to fix. Cooper never answered my questions about why they decided not to include a recess, and why they didn’t discuss that decision with me (either before or after doing it).

I am glad to have TBAC involved. I will probably spend more to get this done right, and to change from using a third party adapter to just having TBAC parts in the bore.

 

[fwafwow]

Updated to make clear that the rifle manufacturer is Cooper. They are not taking any responsibility (even when I made clear I've given up on them paying for anything other than the shipping they paid for - which I offered to pay back). The stories on what happened have been inconsistent - we don't do custom threading (but they did), we decided to not include a recess because it might make your barrel too thin and affect accuracy (but no one told me that - either the unilateral decision not to cut the recess, or that I might have an accuracy problem).

Lesson learned - even if you provide specifications to the manufacturer, it's not a given that they will follow them - at least not twice. The gunsmith and receptionist could not have been more kind and responsive, and while I love my two Cooper rifles, I've lost a good bit of respect for the management.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Cooper doesn't thread rifles on a regular basis do they?
That means most cooper customers probably don't shoot suppressed.

Not saying its any excuse to not stop and say no if you don't know what you're doing. But I can see how they may not have the knowledge.

Anyways Tbac will get you sorted out and you can move on.

 

[fwafwow]

Cooper doesn't thread rifles on a regular basis do they?
That means most cooper customers probably don't shoot suppressed.

Not saying its any excuse to not stop and say no if you don't know what you're doing. But I can see how they may not have the knowledge.

Anyways Tbac will get you sorted out and you can move on.

I have no knowledge about the frequency of their threading. I know they offer some rifles threaded when made, and when I inquired about threading to add a suppressor, there was no hesitation evident in their email replies - or qualifications or caveats (like "we only thread for our muzzle brakes" - which was emailed to me after the problem arose...).

I really thought that going to Cooper was the most logical thing to do - as they can do the work, put the barrel back and re-shoot and send me an updated test target (which they did each time). I also assumed that the company who makes the rifle should be in the best position to help - or tell me they aren't, can't or won't.

Yes, TBAC seems on the ball. I will probably do an update, or a separate thread, after all of this is resolved to give kudos to them.

 

[Doc Holliday]

That is disappointing. Cooper threads their Timberline and Backcountry rifles which they have produced a ton of in the last couple of years. What model did you send them to thread?

I'm glad you posted this because I have considered sending them my M52 Excalibur in 300 win to thread, but now I will either just leave it alone or take to a local smith

 

[Lawnboi]

Good to hear your getting sorted out. Did TBAC specifically tell you the lack of the recess was the problem? Or were the threads that messed up.

On a pencil barrel I’d probably be sending my rifle to TBAC for a face mounted adapter.

 

[fwafwow]

That is disappointing. Cooper threads their Timberline and Backcountry rifles which they have produced a ton of in the last couple of years. What model did you send them to thread?

I'm glad you posted this because I have considered sending them my M52 Excalibur in 300 win to thread, but now I will either just leave it alone or take to a local smith

I sent two M52s - Classic (which was done with the recess) and Jackson Game (which was not). Who knows - maybe after this experience they will be much better equipped and familiar with the issues. But there is something to be said, in my personal opinion, about them not giving me an answer to some simple questions I asked after.

TBAC is able to thread, so I at least have a solution going forward. They can fix this issue, change my adapter to a TBAC one, put the can on and fire it. I think other suppressor manufacturers may not have the same capabilities.

 

[fwafwow]

Good to hear your getting sorted out. Did TBAC specifically tell you the lack of the recess was the problem? Or were the threads that messed up.

On a pencil barrel I’d probably be sending my rifle to TBAC for a face mounted adapter.

TBAC said it is the lack of the recess. Cooper tested the threads and confirmed they are concentric.

The barrel was thin enough to require an adapter. I was using an Area 419 (as mentioned above, a long story), but I'm going to use TBAC only products going forward on this system.

 

[Lawnboi]

TBAC said it is the lack of the recess. Cooper tested the threads and confirmed they are concentric.

The barrel was thin enough to require an adapter. I was using an Area 419 (as mentioned above, a long story), but I'm going to use TBAC only products going forward on this system.

Glad they are getting you sorted out. Says a lot about the company.

 

[fwafwow]

Glad they are getting you sorted out. Says a lot about the company.

Update - TBAC is incredible, especially as compared (IMHO) to Cooper. My contact at TBAC called me again yesterday to report back the tolerances for the entire system following cutting the recess. He said that all looks good, but he volunteered to test fire the rifle and the entire system - even though doing so will require him to spend more time and find (and use) ammo.

 

[Go West Old Man]

Sorry guys - yes, I’m trying not to throw the rifle company under the bus, ……

Well, it now reads like you just did. Problem is that the rifle company isn’t able to respond publicly here to your side of the story. Rest of us are just bystanders.

You don’t have your rifles back from TBAC yet so they’re not yet “proven” to your satisfaction. I’m sure they’ll be fine and problem resolved, but what will you do when you get your rifles back and if you’re still not 100% satisfied?

 

[fwafwow]

Well, it now reads like you just did. Problem is that the rifle company isn’t able to respond publicly here to your side of the story. Rest of us are just bystanders.

As I thought I made clear in post #23, I only included the manufacturer (including to edit the original post - which was extremely awkward when I didn't even initially include TBAC or Area 419) after I gave them every chance to handle this, and eventually just to own up without any cost to them. I also told them I was going to post on RS. I don't see why they can't respond publicly.

You don’t have your rifles back from TBAC yet so they’re not yet “proven” to your satisfaction. I’m sure they’ll be fine and problem resolved, but what will you do when you get your rifles back and if you’re still not 100% satisfied?

I'm crossing my fingers that you are right that it will be fine. I have one rifle back - the one that Cooper threaded as requested. I don't have the one back that they threaded in a different way. I doubt I will ever be 100% satisfied - as I'm out of pocket not only the money I was charged by Cooper to thread it incorrectly, but also the cost of the recess threading and repairs to the can. But I readily admit these are first-world issues.

 

[fwafwow]

Glad they are getting you sorted out. Says a lot about the company.

TBAC is sending me the rifle today, along with TBAC brakes and test fire targets from their shooting after fixing the problems Cooper caused. TBAC has been incredible, including taking personal time to go shoot the rifle after the fix. Cooper, in contrast, blows - but I attribute that solely to their upper management, as the front line folks and gunsmith were extremely pleasant and tried to help as best they could. I'm out a good bit of $$, and quite a bit of time spend going back and forth with them and TBAC on this. No more Cooper support from me. YMMV.

 

[Sled]

TBAC is sending me the rifle today, along with TBAC brakes and test fire targets from their shooting after fixing the problems Cooper caused. TBAC has been incredible, including taking personal time to go shoot the rifle after the fix. Cooper, in contrast, blows - but I attribute that solely to their upper management, as the front line folks and gunsmith were extremely pleasant and tried to help as best they could. I'm out a good bit of $$, and quite a bit of time spend going back and forth with them and TBAC on this. No more Cooper support from me. YMMV.

glad to hear. TBAC takes pride in their work and it shows. i've become increasingly skeptical of companies that don't stand behind their work and that leaves me with a short list of trusted gunsmiths.

 

[FLShooter293]

This might not be your problem but once my gunsmith showed me the test barrels he threaded and the belling I was shocked. Only do 3/4-28 on my precision rifles now. Watch the video with the pins. Great info
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2021/07/barrel-end-threading-bigger-diameter-is-better/

 

[JohnJohnson]

Something to keep in mind is that most rifle manufacturers thread their barrels with the thought that customers will use them with muzzle brakes, not suppressors. Things don't need to be done as well when the bullet is exiting a brake after 2" as opposed to exiting a suppressor after traveling 9" in it. For threading I would basically never send a barrel to a manufacturer. I would always use a smith (recommended by TBAC ideally) like LRI or other high end custom shops. It costs roughly the same and you get a lot more confidence from it.

 

[fwafwow]

Something to keep in mind is that most rifle manufacturers thread their barrels with the thought that customers will use them with muzzle brakes, not suppressors. Things don't need to be done as well when the bullet is exiting a brake after 2" as opposed to exiting a suppressor after traveling 9" in it. For threading I would basically never send a barrel to a manufacturer. I would always use a smith (recommended by TBAC ideally) like LRI or other high end custom shops. It costs roughly the same and you get a lot more confidence from it.

I learned that the hard way with Cooper.

But a manufacturer (or anyone) that is asked to thread for the specific purpose of using a suppressor should (a) decline if they are not capable, or (b) cut the threads as specified for the suppressor. I got the worse combination - higher cost, and threads not cut as agreed upon, leading to damage to the can and the costs to ship and repair same - combined with the hassle and time suck and loss of respect for the manufacturer.