Colorado OTC Archery Elk

[cnelk]

I see lots of threads about Colorado OTC Archery Elk lately - honey holes/draw units better than otc/advice/etc

I posted this on another thread but thought it would be worthy enough to have its own post.

Here’s how OTC Archery Elk units have changed since 2015.

I know many have done well in the past hunting OTC (myself included) but this really puts how much pressure OTC units are getting in the recent years.

OTC units are in grey

 

[GunsAreFun]

Ya, I really question the strategy of CPW. You can’t eliminate like a third of the units and still allow unlimited tags.

I know they are looking at changing things. I kind of like how Wyoming and others do it where you have some general units that one tag can access any but you keep certain units limited either to manage for trophy or help a herd rebound.

 

[feanor]

Excellent post- I was just discussing some of the changing otc units of the last couple years and then started wondering which others slipped into limited categories.

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

I see lots of threads about Colorado OTC Archery Elk lately - honey holes/draw units better than otc/advice/etc

I posted this on another thread but thought it would be worthy enough to have its own post.

Here’s how OTC Archery Elk units have changed since 2015.

I know many have done well in the past hunting OTC (myself included) but this really puts how much pressure OTC units are getting in the recent years.

OTC units are in grey




View attachment 533509
View attachment 533510

I hunted Unit 14 a few years ago and thought it was now a lottery unit?

 

[cnelk]

I hunted Unit 14 a few years ago and thought it was now a lottery unit?

Nope - not for ES archery

 

[Nickofthewoods]

So about 20 units are no longer otc archery without limiting hunter numbers in the remaining otc units. It seems like the people responsible would get fired for making those changes but at CPW they will probably get a raise or promotion.

 

[sundance1]

Its all about the money. We pushed hard on them because their herds were diminishing, So they cut archery tags and put on a draw on lower 1/3 of state units. Left rifle Otc tags alone because of $$ they bring in. More archery hunters go north now to Otc archery units, and what bull increase there is from less killed by bowhunters here are now harvested by rifle hunters. Cpw says you can bitch till the cows come home on Otc rifle tags,,,,,won't change a thing. The bunch of us locals who pushed to get them to cut the tags for archery were more than willing to sacrifice hunting every year, but we were the suckers cuz we're the only ones who gave something up.

 

[Trogon]

My take is that over the long term this will reduce the total number of preference points in the bank (all hunters+all points) as people cash out to hunt low point limited units and gradually the PP for trophy units will stay the same or fall, instead of creep up.

With the impact of that being there will be a handful of throw-away OTC units (over-crowded, over pressure, low success) and the rest will be 1-3 points. Ultimately converting us from a "hunt every year" state to a "hunt every few years, if youre lucky" state.

 

[COPrecisionRifle]

Still don't understand why they made the Grand Mesa units limited for just archery instead of doing it for all seasons…

 

[sundance1]

Google Colorado Wildlife Commission and see who is on it now, It is by appointment only, by the governor. Special interest groups have more representation now than hunters. Several of the regional Cpw guys we were working with when this all started on cutting hunting tags, had or were selling their homes and moving out of state. They said that whether it was the wolves, or trying to do what the local deer and elk herds needed for sustainability and health, the Wildlife Commission shut them out. It's money and politics now,

 

[The_Jim]

I prefer to rifle hunt, but a couple years ago I picked up a muzzleloader cow tag in an OTC archery unit. What a freaking zoo! I would never waste the NR fees on a tag in an OTC archery unit again.

OTC hunting is dead thanks to the Hunting Marketing Machine and everyone (especially our Game and Parks agencies) needs to come to terms with that.

 

[Overdrive]

It's actually a lot of crowding if you consider that Residents and NR's aren't planning their hunting trip to hunt East of I-25. Sure there's elk East but you'll need connections to hunt them.

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

I prefer to rifle hunt, but a couple years ago I picked up a muzzleloader cow tag in an OTC archery unit. What a freaking zoo! I would never waste the NR fees on a tag in an OTC archery unit again.

OTC hunting is dead thanks to the Hunting Marketing Machine and everyone (especially our Game and Parks agencies) needs to come to terms with that.

Why is OTC hunting dead? Because it isn’t as easy as it used to be for locals?

I keep reading this and find it hard to believe after my only Colorado DIY OTC archery hunt in 2019.

My son and I drove 36 hours straight from the NJ shore. We left home the Wednesday before the 2019 opener and got to our camp the next afternoon about 4:30. Within 15 minutes of getting there we had 3 bulls bugling on the next ridge from us. I had never elk hunted before but that was my first spot picked to check and we didn’t even have to scout it to know there were elk.

The next day we bought our licenses and found a route to get us where the elk were the night before. We had to drop 1000 feet in less than 1/3 a mile into a drainage and found an elk trail working up the other side of the stream to where we heard the elk. We backed out and checked out my number 2-4 spots and found sign in two of them.

The opener we dropped into the drainage we had the elk calling the previous two days but didn’t leave camp until the sun was starting to come up do to the fact there was a ton of blow downs and head high and taller ferns with a 20-40 foot cliff along the way we needed to get to the bottom. As we were climbing down we heard a bugle farther down the drainage and we followed it instead of going where we planned. We ended up getting cliffed out turned back and at the original creek crossing we stopped to have lunch.

While eating we see a successful hunter with a quarter of a cow on his back. He sees us and when he gets close he says” Oh shit your not my friends”. I congratulate him and we started talking. He then tells me he has hunted this drainage for 10 years and never seen another person there other than his buddies he was waiting on. He then asks where else we planned on hunting since they will be packing out his elk from where we planned on going. I show him the top 5 places I planned on a topo map and he told me “ if any out of towners deserve to get an elk it’s the two of you”. He then told me he had killed elk in 4 of the five spots I showed him. He showed me easier access areas to get to two of the spots. We congratulated him again, thanked him for the info and left when his buddies got there.

That afternoon we went to my number two spot and found fresh sign but no Elk. The next day we checked out my third spot in the morning and saw no sign so left early and went to another spot. There we ran into 3 guys from Michigan in the parking pull off. One had been coming for 5 years and the other two for 3. In that time they said they had never seen or heard an elk. We went to where the guy we met on the opener said would be an easier access to an area I showed him on the map. We found sign and made plans to come back in the morning.

The next morning as I am putting on my pack I throw my back out and need my son to get the pack off me. We drive into town and get some breakfast. While eating I feel my back loosen up and feel we can hunt that afternoon. We end up going to an area that is less steep than we had been with a big park and multiple water holes on the other side. We find one that clearly has had elk coming to it and we sit covering two fingers of timber about 50 yards apart coming from the ridge top to the water. About 11:45 we hear a cow call and a rock rolling down the hill. Then about 30 seconds later we have a cow up the hill about 80 yards. Unfortunately the steady wind that has blown parallel to the base of the ridge swirled and blew uphill to the elk. She takes off over the ridge. We work our way down wind and go up the mountain and find a ton of well used trails a couple hundred yards from the top. We don’t see or hear anything so decide to go back to the watering hole for the last two hours of light. We jump two big mulies about 80 yards from where we sat earlier and saw another in the other side of the meadow but no more elk.

The next day we planned on going back to where the guy was successful. Unfortunately I couldn’t wake my son. I was mad and almost left him. I am glad I didn’t. He woke up with altitude sickness. We went down to town 2000 feet lower. I made him drink two quarts of Gatorade and tried to get him to eat but he wouldn’t. After 4 hours he wasn’t feeling any better so I made the decision of cutting the hunt 5 days short.

My son was upset he “ruined my hunt”. I told he we accomplished everything we could have except actually killing an elk in 3 days. We had elk bugle, we had elk respond to my calling, we were price that my plan could have been successful by the local getting his cow exactly where we originally planned and then almost having an opportunity. That’s something most never accomplish in there first hunt and we did that essentially in a long weekend. I am confident given more time and a little luck we can be successful in what I have read here is some of the most heavily hunted units in Colorado.

Here is a pic of my son 15 minutes after getting there pointing to the next ridge when we first heard the elk bugling.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hnthrdr]

I see lots of threads about Colorado OTC Archery Elk lately - honey holes/draw units better than otc/advice/etc

I posted this on another thread but thought it would be worthy enough to have its own post.

Here’s how OTC Archery Elk units have changed since 2015.

I know many have done well in the past hunting OTC (myself included) but this really puts how much pressure OTC units are getting in the recent years.

OTC units are in grey




View attachment 533509
View attachment 533510

In all reality might as well wipe all the east of I-25 while you are at it, really puts all hunters in about 1/4 of the units…

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

Why is OTC hunting dead? Because it isn’t as easy as it used to be for locals?

I keep reading this and find it hard to believe after my only Colorado DIY OTC archery hunt in 2019.

My son and I drove 36 hours straight from the NJ shore. We left home the Wednesday before the 2019 opener and got to our camp the next afternoon about 4:30. Within 15 minutes of getting there we had 3 bulls bugling on the next ridge from us. I had never elk hunted before but that was my first spot picked to check and we didn’t even have to scout it to know there were elk.

The next day we bought our licenses and found a route to get us where the elk were the night before. We had to drop 1000 feet in less than 1/3 a mile into a drainage and found an elk trail working up the other side of the tread to where we heard the elk. We backed out and checked out my number 2-4 spots and found sign in two of them.

The opener we dropped into the drainage we had the elk calling the previous two days but didn’t leave camp until the sun was starting to come up do to the fact there was a ton of blow downs and head high and taller ferns with a 20-40 foot cliff along the way we needed to get to the bottom. As we were climbing down we heard a bugle farther down the drainage and we followed it instead of going where we planned. We ended up getting cliffed out and at the original creek crossing we stopped to have lunch.

While eating we see a successful hunter with a quarter of a cow in his back. He sees us and when he gets close he says” Oh shit your not my friends”. I congratulate him and we started talking. He then tells me he has hunted this drainage for 10 years and never seen another person there other than his buddies he was waiting on. He then asks where else we planned on hunting since they will be packing out his elk from where we planned on going. I show him the top 5 places I planned in a topo map and he told me “ if any out of towners deserve to get an elk it’s the two of you”. He then told me he had killed elk in 4 of the five spots I showed him. He showed me easier access areas to get to two of the spots. We congratulated him again, thanked him for the info and left when his buddies got there.

That afternoon we went to my number two spot and found fresh sign but no Elk. The next day we checked out my third spot in the morning and saw no sign so left early and went to another spot. There we ran into 3 guys from Michigan in the parking pull off. One had been coming for 5 years and the other two for 3. In that time they said they had never seen or heard an elk. We went to where the guy we met on the opener said would be an easier access to an area I showed him on the map. We found sign and made plans to come back in the morning.

The next morning as I am putting on my pack I throw my back out and need my son to get the pack off me. We drive into town and get some breakfast. While eating I feel my back loosen up and feel we can hunt that afternoon. We end up going to an area that is less steep than we had been with a big park and multiple water holes on the other side. We find one that clearly has had elk coming to it and we sit covering two fingers of timber about 50 yards apart coming from the ridge top to the water. About 11:45 we hear a cow call and a rock rolling down the hill. Then about 30 seconds later we have a cow up the hill about 80 yards. Unfortunately the steady wind that has blown parallel to the base of the ridge swirled and blew uphill to the elk. She takes off over the ridge. We work our way down wind and go up the mountain and find a ton of well used trails a couple hundred yards from the top. We don’t see or hear anything so decide to go back to the watering hole for the last two hours of light. We jump two big mulies about 80 yards from where we sat earlier and saw another in the other side of the meadow but no more elk.

The next day we planned on going back to where the guy was successful. Unfortunately I couldn’t wake my son. I was mad and almost left him. I am glad I didn’t. He woke up with altitude sickness. We went down to town 2000 feet lower. I made him drink two quarts of Gatorade and tried to get him to eat but he wouldn’t. After 4 hours he wasn’t feeling any better so I made the decision of cutting the hunt 5 days short.

My son was upset he “ruined my hunt”. I told he we accomplished everything we could have except actually killing an elk in 3 days. We had elk bugle, we had elk respond to my calling, we were price that my plan could have been successful by the local getting his cow exactly where we originally planned and then almost having an opportunity. That’s something most never accomplish in there first hunt and we did that essentially in a long weekend. I am confident given more time and a little luck we can be successful in what I have read here is some of the most heavily hunted units in Colorado.

Here is a pic of my son 15 minutes after getting there pointing to the next ridge when we first heard the elk bugling.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Glad you had a good hunt but I think he is referring to OTC being phased out in general, as in OTC opportunities are dropping like flies and in 3-5 years could see there being none.

 

[Donnie]

My guess is Colorado otc elk for nr is completely going away in the next few years ,any opinions

 

[CMF]

I don't think the maps alone provide any indication of hunting pressure. Are you saying the increase in post about otc vs the maps indicates pressure?

A lot of you guys talk like there is no one left hunting in the units that were otc and are now limited. Most of those units can be drawn with zero points or even second choice. Meaning anyone who plans could still be hunting the units they were hunting before. You can't just take those tag numbers and assume all those people went to the other otc units, most of them are still where they were before. Now, for those who don't plan or keep otc as a backup option only, I can see those guys could cause an increase. But how to measure the number of those guys vs guys who always hunted "x unit"? With the tag return option now, you can get your "backup" zero pt/second choice hunt and return it if another state draw comes through.
I think the only real data that would confirm increased pressure on the remaining units is (qty of otc tags sold/per land area of otc units) compared to then and now.
I had an otc tag last year and saw some pressure, but saw and heard elk too, but I mostly hunted with my wife and friends in a limited leftover unit. I failed to acquire a tag on leftover day cause I hit the wrong button, lol.

 

[sundance1]

Contrary. Last archery season Nr drew 65 percent of the tags in the unit I mostly hunt in because not enough residents put in under first choice. It's set up to be 65 percent going to residents. Local residents know that it's crap hunting for the most. Areas where I could walk out on a canyon and bugle 6 years ago and have 5 bulls answer me, now it takes 3 canyons to find 1 bull. You cannot cannot have over the counter rifle tags year after year when the number of hunters is going up and the number of elk is going down. It starts out subtly, to many cow tags, to many late seasons, Cpw being off on their counts. And if it takes some hunters to rattle Cpw's cage telling them that they got a major problem with core resident herd numbers, what does that say about their management practices. And archery hunting is becoming so popular that for all the reasons archery hunters love to do it are gone because of overcrowding. Colorado has always been the fallback state for guys to hunt who didn't draw out in other states, archery and rifle. We keep telling them that most hunters would probably pay a little more for tags, and only draw out every other year, and have a good hunt with more 250-300 inch bulls. Nope, can't do it, can't lose that much revenue. You have to remember that the Division of Wildlife became Colorado PARKS and Wildlife because all the state parks were in the red so the state legislature merged them and put the onus on the wildlife to pay for the park management / mismanagement.

 

[sundance1]

From about 2000 to 2012, Colorado's elk herds were growing and it was in every hunting magazine that it had the largest elk herd statewide in the Union. DOW increased tags year after year, increased cow tags, started having late season hunts, depredation hunts and all were singing Kumbaya around the campfire. About 2014 was when I remember telling my son that somethings wrong. The sign, summer and fall, was decreasing. This is just in the southern third of the state. The northern two thirds weren't seeing this decrease, or as drastic of a decrease. And it got worse with every year until we started rattling cages about it. You have to remember. It all starts with the Cpw herd counts, which I flew around in a plane one winter about 1998 helping them count. If we spotted a herd that looked like close to 100 head, the biologist would add 50 head to it to make up for the ones we didn see and count. I told them thats not right, and if they were over counting year after year, one day it would catch up to them.

 

[Coveyleader]

I saw the effects last year. I may have to look at plans C and D right out the gate, which means a real ugly pack out. Uff!


I’m kinda hoping I draw a certain unit I’m chasing until this shit show passes.