Colorado Lead-Free Pilot Program

[OXN939]

FALSE, you are absolutely giving up something to modern projectiles by using copper. This is not even debatable.

Damn, I'll have to let these guys know. All one shot DRT kills with monos from 20 to 350 yards from Alaska to Florida lol

 

[Bluumoon]

Damn, I'll have to let these guys know. All one shot DRT kills with monos from 20 to 350 yards from Alaska to Florida lol

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Not saying they don't work, they absolutely do. You should have the choice to use what you prefer, as should others. You use monos for prairie dogs and such?

We should all be wary of those waiving the virtue flag, even if it is for "conservation".

 

[Bluumoon]

Yeah, this is where I'm at with it. If hunters lead the effort here, we can shape the narrative better. Voluntary adoption in focused areas where it actually matters. If we dig our heels in and turn this into a political fight with no room for discussion, we might have a losing battle that ends up in bad legislation and blanket mandates. I also think CA shot themselves in the foot with their lead bans, and that it isn't going to lead to the outcome they wanted anyway.

I mostly shoot copper ammo, have for about ~10 years. It's clearly got its own limitations and I think a lot of folks who've had bad experiences with it, it's because they didn't understand or appreciate those differences. It needs to go fast, the low density means it's a longer bullet and you may need to step down in bullet weight to use the same twist rate, and it has a pretty narrow wound channel. Almost like a broadhead that can break through bone.

BC is usually on the low side because copper is less dense, but for the vast majority of hunters who shouldn't be shooting past ~300 yards anyway, that's not significant. For a lot of the more specialized, skilled, long-range shooters here, that might be a different story than your average "one box of ammo a year" hunter.

Personally, I'm happy with a 300-400yd effective range, and I don't mind the tradeoff to minimize meat loss and not leave lead on the side of a mountain where it's definitely getting golden eagles scavenging on it. I don't begrudge people making different choices.

Rather than capitulate when someone waives a conservation flag, I believe it is very reasonable and necessary to point out the incongruities and hypocrisy. You/we/ I need to learn to evaluate and being able to correct/redirect, in a way that fosters conversation, the narrative if it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

 

[ReaptheHeat]

Most of them are still here during that time frame. I've seen Bald Eagles all year long.

I’d be real curious as to what Raptor species haven’t migrated out of CO by Rifle season, and how many and % remain in the Mtn’s through late fall winter.

 

[OXN939]

We should all be wary of those waiving the virtue flag

Nobody is waving the virtue flag. I'm simply offering facts and help to guys who voluntarily decide they'd be interested in switching to lead free in light of that information.

I understand why guys panic when people bring this topic up- Colorado and California are poster children for government overreach. I just hope we as a community start to understand the facts of a situation that will probably be legislated for us at some point in the not too distant future if we don't start to read the writing on the wall.

 

[mt terry d]

I'm a believer in the assertion that lead form dead animals shot by a rifle can cause lead poisoning in these birds.

We are all free to believe whatever we want.
I'm curious, what evidence is your belief based on?
And please define "lead poisoning".

As I pointed out previously, statements like "Blood lead levels of scavenging birds have been proven to increase during hunting season" are virtually meaningless. And being such, are usually meant to deceive rather than inform accurately.
So, how much did they increase? 00.0001? ? 1000%?
Are there no other factors that could contribute to that undefined increase?
Did that increase have ANY negative effects on those birds? If so, what were they?

The intention of this proposal is crystal clear to any thinking person.

 

[Fatcamp]

Irony that this is the token you have to purchase to shower in Colorado Parks?

 

[Stache Attack]

Do copper bullets kill yes are they as efficient as lead I don’t believe so. My thoughts are coyotes consume a carcasses main meat more often then birds of prey pick up scraps. I do not believe they are decreasing in population they are increasing to the point of vermin in the winter. If Colorado is seeing a decline they should stop building in prime habitat. We have a big snowy owl population mid Feb- April I am much more concerned about them. They are better hunters than the eagles though that are predominantly scavengers.

 

[Tower13]

CPW is asking hunter's to participate in a lead-free pilot program in select units for 2025 deer/elk rifle hunts where where is a known presence of bald and golden eagle activity.

I'm curious about this. My initial thoughts are that I can imagine a shotgun blast of lead pellets could have an adverse effect on such birds of prey, but how much would a single projectile (that likely would have a pass through on deer) really effect these birds? Is there research available on this topic that you guys have found to be a good read?

I'm willing to switch to copper for the season I have this year as I'm not really dead set on shooting lead. Do you guys/gals think that Colorado is trending towards lead-free units altogether?

Last year I tried copper with my 6.5 creed. Learned a lesson from that. 6.5 and copper dont mix. It is too fast and at 80 yards i shot a buck a bit behind the sweet spot and it just stood there. I took an additional shot and hit about 2 inches lower. The buck moved up the hill about 30 yards stopped and turned and looked back. Hit hit him again through the neck and he took off. Tracked him with my hunting partner and found him down next to a log. As we were about 10 yards from him he jumped up and took off my hunting buddy dropped him for good with a 300 win mag. All three of my copper 6.5 creed went in and out of the buck the same size hole.

 

[Tower13]

NY is pushing to ban lead ammo on state land. Its just a matter of time. They tried to push it through in 2023 also.

They wont give up until it happens. Copper just does not do the job as lead core does. My personal option is there will be more wounded animals (even with a solid shot) that will eventually die after traveling miles with a solid copper projectile shot vs a solid hit with a lead core bullet.

 

[FredH]

I've actually done some stuff with the long time head biologist at the Sutton Center. I really blew my mind how much lead fragments. Even cup and core bullets.

He's a hunter, very pro 2a and small government. Also very pro not hunting with lead.

Lead-poisoning of Eagles – Sutton Center https://www.suttoncenter.org/conservation/saving-species/bald-eagles/lead-poisoning-eagles/

Warren Harden is no hunter. Anti hunter for sure. He is chairman of the board at the Sutton center. Member of the Audobon society. You have been duped .

Bird-Hunting Ban at Lake Hefner Sought

Starting next year, ducks, other migratory birds and bird-watchers may find a safer haven at Lake Hefner, if Oklahoma City game and fish commissioners get their wish. The commission voted Monday to p…

www.oklahoman.com

T

 

[slatebuilder]

Has anyone else heard lead free referred to as modern ammunition?

 

[z987k]

CPW is asking hunter's to participate in a lead-free pilot program in select units for 2025 deer/elk rifle hunts where where is a known presence of bald and golden eagle activity.

I'm curious about this. My initial thoughts are that I can imagine a shotgun blast of lead pellets could have an adverse effect on such birds of prey, but how much would a single projectile (that likely would have a pass through on deer) really effect these birds? Is there research available on this topic that you guys have found to be a good read?

I'm willing to switch to copper for the season I have this year as I'm not really dead set on shooting lead. Do you guys/gals think that Colorado is trending towards lead-free units altogether?

I've shot most of the copper bullets out there(I shoot lead free purely out of choice) and find that the fragmenting ones have better terminal performance then the expanding ones. To that end, I really like Apex.
But I've switched to DRT. Wildly better terminal performance than any copper bullet I've shot. I do not recommend buying their loaded ammo. Roll your own own find something else.

Last year I tried copper with my 6.5 creed. Learned a lesson from that. 6.5 and copper dont mix. It is too fast and at 80 yards i shot a buck a bit behind the sweet spot and it just stood there. I took an additional shot and hit about 2 inches lower. The buck moved up the hill about 30 yards stopped and turned and looked back. Hit hit him again through the neck and he took off. Tracked him with my hunting partner and found him down next to a log. As we were about 10 yards from him he jumped up and took off my hunting buddy dropped him for good with a 300 win mag. All three of my copper 6.5 creed went in and out of the buck the same size hole.

Expanding copper, like barnes I'm guessing, makes a really small wound channel. I don't think I'd hunt anything with less than a 30 cal in expanding copper anymore. And honestly I'd like to see bigger.

 

[Fowl Play]

I do think there are some benefits to shooting lead free. Although it is a very slippery slope and it should be a choice, rather than a requirement. What I will say is the combo lead free AND making it illegal to ship ammunition to your home (effectively blocking online purchases) — is the 1-2 punch combo that hurt allot in California. Making you required to shoot specialized ammo AND making you unable to purchase that specialized ammo easily is an effective anti hunting campaign. I honestly wouldn’t do it. You cannot give an inch as they are likely playing by the same playbook as CA and CO has already lost so much ground in government. I had several times where I had no options to purchase legal hunting ammunition locally and would have to wait weeks for a special order I made through an FFL to come in.

 

[canyonhunter47]

Damn, I'll have to let these guys know. All one shot DRT kills with monos from 20 to 350 yards from Alaska to Florida lol

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Which one is from Alaska?

 

[Hnthrdr]

Do copper bullets kill yes are they as efficient as lead I don’t believe so. My thoughts are coyotes consume a carcasses main meat more often then birds of prey pick up scraps. I do not believe they are decreasing in population they are increasing to the point of vermin in the winter. If Colorado is seeing a decline they should stop building in prime habitat. We have a big snowy owl population mid Feb- April I am much more concerned about them. They are better hunters than the eagles though that are predominantly scavengers.

Don’t set a cam on all my gut piles but we have set a few over the last couple years since we had bear tags. 95% of the carcasses were eaten by Yotes next prolific animals were magpies, crows, and grey jays, few foxes and a mt. Lion, yet to see a raptor on my carcasses, not saying it doesn’t happen, honestly probably happens a lot more out east or high mountain valleys than in the timbered mountains…

 

[Marble]

I have read studies where the actual isotopes that come from lead ammo are found in scavenging birds that are dead. A couple of them.

But I am not one of the hunters who want hunters to be mandated to shoot copper. I have to shoot it in CA and have been ok with the results. But in my experience, they do not perform the same or as well as lead-based bullets.

But more importantly, I do not believe the people pushing this are only interested in restricting us to copper. I believe it is incrementalism. We should have the choice to shoot what we want.

They are creating a solution where there isn't a problem.

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[Marble]

Has anyone else heard lead free referred to as modern ammunition?

I haven't. But it wouldn't surprise me to see it.

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