Rather than capitulate when someone waives a conservation flag, I believe it is very reasonable and necessary to point out the incongruities and hypocrisy. You/we/ I need to learn to evaluate and being able to correct/redirect, in a way that fosters conversation, the narrative if it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
Colorado Lead-Free Pilot Program
- Thread starter Upwolf
- Start date
ReaptheHeat
WKR
Most of them are still here during that time frame. I've seen Bald Eagles all year long.
Nobody is waving the virtue flag. I'm simply offering facts and help to guys who voluntarily decide they'd be interested in switching to lead free in light of that information.
I understand why guys panic when people bring this topic up- Colorado and California are poster children for government overreach. I just hope we as a community start to understand the facts of a situation that will probably be legislated for us at some point in the not too distant future if we don't start to read the writing on the wall.
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2023
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- 1,546
We are all free to believe whatever we want.
I'm curious, what evidence is your belief based on?
And please define "lead poisoning".
As I pointed out previously, statements like "Blood lead levels of scavenging birds have been proven to increase during hunting season" are virtually meaningless. And being such, are usually meant to deceive rather than inform accurately.
So, how much did they increase? 00.0001? ? 1000%?
Are there no other factors that could contribute to that undefined increase?
Did that increase have ANY negative effects on those birds? If so, what were they?
The intention of this proposal is crystal clear to any thinking person.
Stache Attack
WKR
Do copper bullets kill yes are they as efficient as lead I don’t believe so. My thoughts are coyotes consume a carcasses main meat more often then birds of prey pick up scraps. I do not believe they are decreasing in population they are increasing to the point of vermin in the winter. If Colorado is seeing a decline they should stop building in prime habitat. We have a big snowy owl population mid Feb- April I am much more concerned about them. They are better hunters than the eagles though that are predominantly scavengers.
Last year I tried copper with my 6.5 creed. Learned a lesson from that. 6.5 and copper dont mix. It is too fast and at 80 yards i shot a buck a bit behind the sweet spot and it just stood there. I took an additional shot and hit about 2 inches lower. The buck moved up the hill about 30 yards stopped and turned and looked back. Hit hit him again through the neck and he took off. Tracked him with my hunting partner and found him down next to a log. As we were about 10 yards from him he jumped up and took off my hunting buddy dropped him for good with a 300 win mag. All three of my copper 6.5 creed went in and out of the buck the same size hole.
They wont give up until it happens. Copper just does not do the job as lead core does. My personal option is there will be more wounded animals (even with a solid shot) that will eventually die after traveling miles with a solid copper projectile shot vs a solid hit with a lead core bullet.
- Banned
- #49
Warren Harden is no hunter. Anti hunter for sure. He is chairman of the board at the Sutton center. Member of the Audobon society. You have been duped .
Bird-Hunting Ban at Lake Hefner Sought
Starting next year, ducks, other migratory birds and bird-watchers may find a safer haven at Lake Hefner, if Oklahoma City game and fish commissioners get their wish. The commission voted Monday to p…
www.oklahoman.com
T
I've shot most of the copper bullets out there(I shoot lead free purely out of choice) and find that the fragmenting ones have better terminal performance then the expanding ones. To that end, I really like Apex.
But I've switched to DRT. Wildly better terminal performance than any copper bullet I've shot. I do not recommend buying their loaded ammo. Roll your own own find something else.
Expanding copper, like barnes I'm guessing, makes a really small wound channel. I don't think I'd hunt anything with less than a 30 cal in expanding copper anymore. And honestly I'd like to see bigger.
Fowl Play
WKR
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2016
- Messages
- 861
I do think there are some benefits to shooting lead free. Although it is a very slippery slope and it should be a choice, rather than a requirement. What I will say is the combo lead free AND making it illegal to ship ammunition to your home (effectively blocking online purchases) — is the 1-2 punch combo that hurt allot in California. Making you required to shoot specialized ammo AND making you unable to purchase that specialized ammo easily is an effective anti hunting campaign. I honestly wouldn’t do it. You cannot give an inch as they are likely playing by the same playbook as CA and CO has already lost so much ground in government. I had several times where I had no options to purchase legal hunting ammunition locally and would have to wait weeks for a special order I made through an FFL to come in.
canyonhunter47
WKR
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2018
- Messages
- 645
Which one is from Alaska?
Don’t set a cam on all my gut piles but we have set a few over the last couple years since we had bear tags. 95% of the carcasses were eaten by Yotes next prolific animals were magpies, crows, and grey jays, few foxes and a mt. Lion, yet to see a raptor on my carcasses, not saying it doesn’t happen, honestly probably happens a lot more out east or high mountain valleys than in the timbered mountains…
I have read studies where the actual isotopes that come from lead ammo are found in scavenging birds that are dead. A couple of them.
But I am not one of the hunters who want hunters to be mandated to shoot copper. I have to shoot it in CA and have been ok with the results. But in my experience, they do not perform the same or as well as lead-based bullets.
But more importantly, I do not believe the people pushing this are only interested in restricting us to copper. I believe it is incrementalism. We should have the choice to shoot what we want.
They are creating a solution where there isn't a problem.
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But I am not one of the hunters who want hunters to be mandated to shoot copper. I have to shoot it in CA and have been ok with the results. But in my experience, they do not perform the same or as well as lead-based bullets.
But more importantly, I do not believe the people pushing this are only interested in restricting us to copper. I believe it is incrementalism. We should have the choice to shoot what we want.
They are creating a solution where there isn't a problem.
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
I haven't. But it wouldn't surprise me to see it.
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I'm gonna start doing this!
It
pretty fun actually, we were going to hang a tree stand over one and sit for a bear but we ended up not doing it, man with a tree stand, some patience and a suppressed .22 I think you could kill a bunch of coyotes
Definitely the Pronghorn
Here are two from AK with hammer hunters, in 7mm-08 and 6.5 CM respectively- Joined
- Jul 18, 2023
- Messages
- 1,546
So what was the cause of death?
Did they find lead ammo isotopes in living scavenging birds? How much lead isotopes does it take to cause a negative health effect in a bird? How much to kill a bird? (I’ll take 1 1/8 oz of #6 shot, Alex).
If those points were not covered in the studies the studies were just more BS agenda-driven propaganda and of less value than nothing.
Every time I read or hear of these things it’s always about eagles, or buzzards, or hawks. And I honestly ask, what is so special about raptors that makes them the bird that everyone is so concerned about and obsessed with?
It’s like they are vital to continued human existence the way some people act. I’ve asked this question on another message board and had guys claim that anyone who would harm a “raptor” is not fit for society and should be shot.
I’m not for eradicating any native animal in its native range. But I’m also even less for giving up rights because something might possibly, under just the right conditions, harm a few of a species.
Given the choice of “making a difference”, I’d way rather do something that increases quail populations. I just can’t see why people get so emotional over some birds just because they have sharp claws. I just don’t understand the attachment.
It’s like they are vital to continued human existence the way some people act. I’ve asked this question on another message board and had guys claim that anyone who would harm a “raptor” is not fit for society and should be shot.
I’m not for eradicating any native animal in its native range. But I’m also even less for giving up rights because something might possibly, under just the right conditions, harm a few of a species.
Given the choice of “making a difference”, I’d way rather do something that increases quail populations. I just can’t see why people get so emotional over some birds just because they have sharp claws. I just don’t understand the attachment.
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