College vs skilled trades.

[roadrunner]

…Because part of getting the license is having a degree from an accredited institution?

No, the degree has be ABET accredited, not the institution. That's what has changed over the years. To be ABET accredited, the lead professor or department head has to have their PhD and be licensed. If they aren't, then the program isn't ABET accredited.

It used to be a state by state thing. Now it's nationalized, but still only good for the state you live in or with those that have reciprocity.

If someone has a hydro-geology engineering degree that is calculus based, they likely can't sit for the exam because it's not ABET accredited.

Not telling you something you already don't know, it's more for the other readers getting a chuckle over this.

Still, either the degree or the license should suffice. Both shouldn't be required...

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

The world needs plumbers and sanitation workers, without em, we’d live like the third world.

I live 5 miles outside of a town of around 1,100. For years our local plumber has advertised full paid plumbing school tuition for any high school graduate. Given the age of the guy that runs the company, a kid that would take him up and stick it out would likely have the opportunity to take over a turn key business in less 10 years. He hasn't had a single kid apply, and instead he is suffering from a revolving door of unqualified laborers that can't stay clean long enough or want to work hard enought to stay employed.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Mike Rowe who you may know from the Discovery channel dirty jobs started the Mikeroweworks foundation which supports and finances the skill labor jobs. He has alway been an advocate for vocational skills and skilled labor. At this time in our country if you learn a skill and become very proficient at it, you will likely find a job faster with better starting pay than those who graduate from a four year college. I know two recent, in the past year, college graduates who are working at Starbucks. I do believe if you have a in demand degree you will likely land a job and at some point you will be making a very good living exceeding those who are in skilled trades. Regardless of what choice you make, remember, good work ethic will help you advance faster than anything else.

Great shout out to Mike Rowe. He is a phenomenal person and he has a very interesting story. When you guys have some time read or listen to his book. It is written similarly to the old Paul Harvey, "...and now you know the rest of the story..." format. Fantastic read and awesome individual.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

This is a false choice. It’s not either or. I put myself through school buy working in construction (home building). Got my BS and now work in my field of study, but still wear my bags a lot too.

My brother put himself through undergrad and med school doing construction. Even though his has been a successful MD for more than 20 years now, he rarely pays to have work done on his home unless there is a code compliance risk.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Interesting discussion. I remember reading that something like over half of graduates are not working in their field of study and around 40% are working in jobs that dont require a degree. My wife has a masters in accounting and works in HR. I have a BS in finance and work as a production manager. We both have the jobs we do because they require a degree, even though they are not related. Which brings up the fact that many jobs just require a degree. Whether the degree is worth it compared to the salary really depends. I have machine operators that like to work overtime that will make more than I do by the end of the year.

You are absolutely right. I earned biology degree in '97. Never used it in a related field. Been in technology, project management, and IT management over the last 24 years.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Get really really good at welding and fabrication and you will make plenty of money and your phone will always ring.
What I love about trades is, is talk is cheap and the true craftsmen will always shine.
I do have a few friends that went the college route and are doing extremely well for themselves, I also have a couple who thought it was like a guarantee to an easy life or something and fell flat.
It all comes down to how motivated you are and how bad you are willing to fight for it, degree or turning a crank for living.
College is great for some and horrible for others, likewise for trades.

Great point on welding. In our area there is one go-to welder/fabricator. He was president of the blacksmiths association for years even. When farmers and other folks stuff breaks, he is the man you call to fix it. Unfortunately, he's almost 80 and won't be laying a bead for much longer. Similar to the plumber in town, he can't find any young people that are willing to put in the time to learn the trade and most importantly the business.

 

[qwerksc]

I live 5 miles outside of a town of around 1,100. For years our local plumber has advertised full paid plumbing school tuition for any high school graduate. Given the age of the guy that runs the company, a kid that would take him up and stick it out would likely have the opportunity to take over a turn key business in less 10 years. He hasn't had a single kid apply, and instead he is suffering from a revolving door of unqualified laborers that can't stay clean long enough or want to work hard enought to stay employed.

I blame the iPhone.

Sent on iphone

 

[Poser]

I live 5 miles outside of a town of around 1,100. For years our local plumber has advertised full paid plumbing school tuition for any high school graduate. Given the age of the guy that runs the company, a kid that would take him up and stick it out would likely have the opportunity to take over a turn key business in less 10 years. He hasn't had a single kid apply, and instead he is suffering from a revolving door of unqualified laborers that can't stay clean long enough or want to work hard enought to stay employed.

I live in a (soon to be completely over the top) expensive “mountain town” where the median household income is 52k and the median household price is $650k (I realize that there are towns with even a great spread there). There is a college here and also it’s place where people constantly complain about lack of “real” jobs/careers with non seasonal positions, 401ks, salaries, benefits etc. the company I work for has very casual “white collar” positions open virtually all of the time: salary, benefits , 401k matching, PTO, ability to work from home, ability to move up etc and we will seldom get any local applicants at all. In fact, we just hired 3 new people who relocated here for the job, 2 of them recent college graduates while the town is full of recent college graduates. I’d venture this problem exists on both ends of the spectrum.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I blame the iPhone.

Sent on iphone

I say it all the time, smart phones and social media will be the end of western civilization.

 

[Kilboars]

I think whatever path you choose you just need to get serious about your life. Put your head down for 10-15 years and you’ll be set for life.


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[menhaden_man]

disagree. On average college is not an extension of babysitting. Just like the trades there are extremes on both ends of the spectrum. Everyone on here would be pretty upset if they didn’t have a CPA or CFP to manage their taxes and retirement. In addition, if there weren’t folks with business and marketing degrees that were working to expand the businesses you work for you wouldn’t be in a job for you long, because the business would fold up.

my point is expertise is needed in both areas and one isn’t any better than the other. Individuals can make a good living in both if they’re willing to work hard.

It's ok to disagree... I have a college degree and have done well for myself after living below the poverty line for the first 30 years of my life. My point is that college just isn't what it used to be and the bubble has popped. It was different when a guy or gal could cut trees over the summer and pay $4,500 in tuition with a check, crank it out in 4 years, and hop into the job market for a nice $30k salary. Fast forward to today and there are plenty of grads working at Applebee's with a quarter million in debt and living with mom and dad into their late 30s. I see dozens of PhDs applying for entry level work each year. Maybe I'm wrong, but college is a great place to hang out when you don't know what you want to do and can afford the bill to figure it out until you're 30. Not knocking guys like me that went to college, just saying that the linemen, carpenters, diesel mechanics, electricians, etc. are a completely different situation. In my opinion of course.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

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[elkyinzer]

The right answer lies in both.

Still a lot of good college degrees if you put them to good use and avoid the useless junk (mostly the ones they used to call these housewife degrees and all the new woke studies). Engineering, business, tech, medical.

Always be a demand for the trades but I agree a lot of the anecdotal possibilities are at the very high end of the pay scale especially for someone starting new today. A lot of the unionized high pay and benefits are relics of those that got in at the ground floor of the past generation. Also a lot of guys throwing out high annual pay are working 60-80 hour weeks. Yinz have fun with that, that ain't me. Anyone willing to work 80 hours a week is probably going to "make it" in whatever profession they choose. Even basket weaving.

 

[Kilboars]

Seems like a lot of kids are going to collage just to make their parents happy and to party and postpone adulthood even longer.

The kids that get after it will be the future leaders. Not the kids with the seasons passes to all the games and 10k FB followers. IMO


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[grossklw]

I'll echo what others have said. There are some college degrees that are worth it and some that are not. I'm a physical therapist, 4 years of undergrad and 3 years of grad school for that fancy DPT degree. I graduated 7 years ago and took on close to 6 figures of student loan debt. I was able to work and pay most of my undergrad tuition but it's not feasible for grad school (can't imagine what it is now). I did travel therapy for 2 years out of PT school and made mid 6 figures and knocked a lot of that debt down.

Now I make a near 6 figure salary which is ok, but my wife is an RN and has moved up in management makes more than me with less schooling. A physician assistant has less time in school than I do but make considerably more than I do. PT isn't that complicated, it really does not need to be a doctorate (in my opinion). Would I have done it again? probably not, I would have gotten my PA degree and gone that route instead...But in saying that I work 4 easy 10 hour days inside, 6.5 weeks of PTO, and good insurance through the hospital. I'll be dropping to 3 days a week next year with eventually moving to real estate full-time in the next 2-3 years.

My BIL is a commercial electrician and a foreman and makes more money than I do, but he's also having to go in consistently at 4 am and doing shut downs over weekends and overnights. I don't know if I would trade with him. I like my easy 7-5:30 job that allows me the time to work on my side hustles.

There is no one size fits all. I'm not going to push my kids one way or the other, I had a great time in college and it has afforded me a nice lifestyle. The expectation for my kids is it needs to be trades or college, and I'm not paying for a worthless college degree, there needs to be an end in mind. With my real estate endeavors they will have plenty of exposure to both routes. My 3 year old already owns a duplex (it's just not in his name yet), if he decides to go into the trades he will have a completely paid off investment property, if he goes into college I'll co-sign on a loan for him for that property and he will have the cash to pay for school himself.

 

[Poser]

Seems like a lot of kids are going to collage just to make their parents happy and to party and postpone adulthood even longer.

The kids that get after it will be the future leaders. Not the kids with the seasons passes to all the games and 10k FB followers. IMO


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Sure. And that’s been the case to a certain extent since boomers started going to college. Further compelled by the Vietnam draft. We could look at all kinds of college deferment examples ranging from Dick Cheney to Donald Trump to Bill Clinton. On the flipside, we could also turn up no shortage of examples of business networking connections made during college party years eventually panning out into highly productive and culture changing impacts on business, design, thought and processes. It’s really difficult to apply one set of judgement on it. It would be kind of comparable to saying that people get into trade jobs so they have steady access to opiates. Go hang out at a blue collar bar/pool hall after 5 pm and watch how many drug deals are going down. It works both ways.

I definitely agree that college is bloated, absurdly expensive and only applicable to a smaller percentage of the population than the percentage that attends, but then we start looking at what should be eliminated from college and there’s no easy answers. For example, is there any logical reason for college sports to exist on the level they currently exists? Why are we dumping time, money and resources into school spirit related entertainment that could easily exist at the professional level? Why are college football coaches the highest paid state employees in most states? Those questions are just as tough as why Women’s Studies is a major.

The truth is, People are highly selective with their overall criticisms. Certain fields will require college degrees as modern society needs Drs, lawyers, chemists, scientists, engineers, architects etc just as much as it needs plumbers and electricians and builders. If everyone went into trades, it would deflate the market. I do agree that more people should be looking into trades vs. college.

 

[qwerksc]

My wife is a cpa, I’m a carpenter/general contractor. Teamwork makes the dream work. Street smart enough to know truth.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Whether you choose college or the trades, just make sure to pay attention in English class. It's pretty embarrasing to see the amount of professionals that make basic spelling and grammatical errors.

 

[idig4au]

I say it all the time, smart phones and social media will be the end of western civilization.

THIS!!! No truer words have ever been written on the internet

 

[ramsdude47]

Anecdotal input here that would be interesting to find some real numbers on…

As an RN I personally care for what seems like a grossly disproportionate number of skilled trades workers that need major orthopedic surgery (including back surgeries) often at a relatively young age. Many times surgery doesn’t fix the problem, and some of these patients end up getting double digit surgeries. Although not common, there are a handful that I remember with pretty significant disability that won’t be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor like they probably envisioned.

 

[Actual_Cryptid]

Anecdotal input here that would be interesting to find some real numbers on…

As an RN I personally care for what seems like a grossly disproportionate number of skilled trades workers that need major orthopedic surgery (including back surgeries) often at a relatively young age. Many times surgery doesn’t fix the problem, and some of these patients end up getting double digit surgeries. Although not common, there are a handful that I remember with pretty significant disability that won’t be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor like they probably envisioned.

the "real men don't wear safety glasses and earplugs, OSHA is for pussies" probably contributes.
At least that's what i observed when I was roofing and throwing crates in a warehouse as a younger, dumber man.