College vs skilled trades.

[Wapiti1]

There are some interesting stats
HERE

A good factual article that I bet maybe 5 in 100 folks are aware of.

Its on the American institute of Economic Research webpage, article, "They're coming for you"

"The typical college grad earns 60% more than someone with a HS education"
...they break it down too....with this discussion primarily talking taxes taxes

>

Good article. I've read other similar pieces from other sources as well.

Every time I see capital gains taxation, I cringe and watch my retirement shrink a little. One glaring issue is the financial illiteracy of a solid 50% of our citizenry.

OK, done with the off topic stuff.

Jeremy

 

[minengr]

Depends on what matters to you. My BS was in mining engineering. First job I took out of college only paid $40k. A year and a job change later I was at $58. I topped out in '14 at over $100 with my bonus. Now I'm back to a little over $40 working for the state DOT. I may not have that salary I once did, but I don't have the head aches and night terrors either. I no longer have a company phone, I'm no longer on call 24/7, however I do have 7.5 hr work days, 37.5 work week, 13 holidays, and a pension. I cannot express how much happier I am now.

 

[Pk_in_Dallas]

What kind of sales are you talking? Only sales guys I know making $300k+ are software guys.

I’ve been in legal for the past 7 years and never made less than $250k a year. I’ve also been in medical for a long time and did very well. There are a lot of other people in legal that make a hell of a lot more than I do. Technology, medical, software sales are usually good industries where people make rapper money.


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[Eltigreblanco]

One other consideration is union contributions to democrats, not sure I would feel great knowing I was paying dues to support people who wanted to undermine my way of life.

Typically Republicans are not pro union.

 

[TxxAgg]

I’ve been in legal for the past 7 years and never made less than $250k a year. I’ve also been in medical for a long time and did very well. There are a lot of other people in legal that make a hell of a lot more than I do. Technology, medical, software sales are usually good industries where people make rapper money.


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Thanks. I guess I don't know what "legal" sales is.

 

[Pk_in_Dallas]

Thanks. I guess I don't know what "legal" sales is.

Legal sales can be selling digital marketing to small law firms looking for new clients. It can be selling mass tort leads & retainers to law firms looking to grow their tort docket.


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[roadrunner]

I definitely agree that college is bloated, absurdly expensive and only applicable to a smaller percentage of the population than the percentage that attends, but then we start looking at what should be eliminated from college and there’s no easy answers.

The truth is, People are highly selective with their overall criticisms. Certain fields will require college degrees as modern society needs Drs, lawyers, chemists, scientists, engineers, architects etc just as much as it needs plumbers and electricians and builders. If everyone went into trades, it would deflate the market. I do agree that more people should be looking into trades vs. college.

That's the focal point to my rant. If it takes two years to learn everything you need to pass the "new and improved" PE exam, why waste the time and money clogging your head with irrelevant nonsense? Otherwise, either the degree or license should suffice. Both should not be required.

Same goes with all other licensed professions. I seriously doubt an MD needs to know how to interpret poetry...

 

[Poser]

That's the focal point to my rant. If it takes two years to learn everything you need to pass the "new and improved" PE exam, why waste the time and money clogging your head with irrelevant nonsense? Otherwise, either the degree or license should suffice. Both should not be required.

Same goes with all other licensed professions. I seriously doubt an MD needs to know how to interpret poetry...

Again, not arguing that it’s not convoluted, but the original idea behind college, in the Socratic sense, was to produce philosophers: thinkers.
Doctors and lawyers both have to know and interpret complex language, terminology and lexicon. To address your specific example, The idea behind studying languages is to be able to fully understand, comprehend, interpret and discuss these complex thought processes, problems and interpretations. In the year 2021, I’m not saying that one can’t do this entirely independently, particularly if one is interested in virtually any subject as their are podcasts that are as in depth on any given subject as there are college lectures, BUT, that was the original idea: you are challenged with varying complexities across a variety of subjects in a way to stimulate the brain to better understand learning processes, critical thinking in general application and be able to apply that to a very specific field in an efficient manner.

The original delineation between trade school and college was just as you described: in tradeschool you focus on developing a specific skill set. In college, you focus on developing a broader thought application that is later refined in practice: Med school, Law school, engineering school etc or through a direct degree such as economics, business, biology, mathematics, thought etc and your brain is adapted to this broad spectrum of critical thought.

While, again, this has all become very confused and convoluted, you have to remember that for the vast majority of history, a tradesman wasn’t expect to be be literate and that obviously doesn’t apply to modern society. In many modern trades, a foundation of critical thought is just as important for the execution of that trade as it is for many white collar jobs. So the discussion shifts to how much education does one need? And there’s no easy answer to that as trades are only getting more complex.

 

[TSimons9]

Totally dependent on the degree that you get and your location. I have a degree (debt free) and started working the Monday after I graduated. I studied construction management, and the construction industry is a great way to make good money off of your degree. That being said I deal with tradesmen daily and there is a huge shortage of skilled trades and with the shortage should come better pay and opportunity because companies compete to keep people. I think either way you go it will be a good opportunity if you work hard and have a plan.

 

[eye_zick]

I don't know what job you're in, that's wild. A CPA in my region starts out about the same as an IBEW electrician. The average for a manager in Tax is $130k, which is the top end for IBEW 1, and there's still room to go up from manager.

Unless you're in government or non-profit and you're trading income for your work schedule, you're doing something wrong.

I live in an area innundated with accountants. FWIW - my first job interview 10 years ago was for 36K bachelors required, over a dozen applicants.

Average accountant salary in Idaho is just above 53K. Most of our skilled workers make good money because they have in demand skills. again this is just how its sitting now as every skilled worker is in demand. The residential growth is pushing every construction wage up. High school kids can easily get $18-20 hr for their summer jobs.

 

[MattB]

Typically Republicans are not pro union.

But they are typically pro-2A, pro-hunting, and pro-conservative values. Even if union members vote Republican, they may be in essence funding the other side.

“According to OpenSecrets data, labor unions donated more than $67 million to candidates and parties, 86 percent of which went to Democrats, the most one-sided partisan split of any industry tracked by the watchdog group.”

The Biggest Union Donors in 2020

America's biggest labor organizations spent big in 2020, looking to support Democratic candidates and influence ballot initiatives. Here's a quick rundown of the heavy-hitters.

bluetent.us

 

[Eltigreblanco]

But they are typically pro-2A, pro-hunting, and pro-conservative values. Even if union members vote Republican, they may be in essence funding the other side.

“According to OpenSecrets data, labor unions donated more than $67 million to candidates and parties, 86 percent of which went to Democrats, the most one-sided partisan split of any industry tracked by the watchdog group.”

The Biggest Union Donors in 2020

America's biggest labor organizations spent big in 2020, looking to support Democratic candidates and influence ballot initiatives. Here's a quick rundown of the heavy-hitters.

bluetent.us

Why would someone donate to a party that typically is against them?

 

[M-Wig]

It all depends on the person. Wife never went to college. Parents had no money so she never looked at it as an option, even though she did well in school. She is in the custom homebuilding industry and has made over six figures since she was in her late 20's. That is after starting out at $8/hr 10 years prior.

I have a business degree (Supply Chain Managment). We have our own business now (hate working for someone else) but my degree helped me get in the door at other places for experience.

My daughter is 17 and the wife says she has no choice but to go to college. She regrets not going so she pushes it hard. I tell her she can do whatever she wants because I'm not paying for her to party a few semesters then quit.

 

[kkp005]

I think people willing to show up and do hard work is what will be in the highest demand. I’m a girl dad so I’ll push for them to go to college. If I had boys I’d push for them to learn a trade or go to the military and learn a trade there. Some of the highest paid guys at my current work (steel mill) came from the navy as electricians.

I got a bachelors degree in Business back in 2011. I think it does show that you have the motivation to show up and are willing to finish task. I got on with an oilfield service company in 2012 and started out as a Mwd field engineer (making 100k plus but spending 300 plus days a year on a drilling rig…. Worked my way into an office job in management and absolutely hated the every day bullshit and stress…went back to the field as directional driller making some sure enough $$ and survived the slow down in 2015/2016/2017 but it scared the shit out of me.

Found a stable job in 2017 working in the melt shop at a steel mill and love it. I’m the only person on my 15man crew that has a college degree. Every single one of us will make over 100k this year only working 1/2 of the year on shift work.

Whether you’re educated or not there’s money to be made out there. You just have to go get it .

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

I say both. Timing is everything. College was cheaper when I went and I became a surveyor right out of college which has nothing to do with my degree. Didnt "need" my degree for the first ten years, but moving up the chain it is definitely a good thing to have. I was expected to go to college by my family and they did help me out. There is also the route of starting work and having who you work for pay for your degree when they want you to move up, It happens.

 

[Biggie]

All depends on what your priorities are. All of the money in the world doesn't matter if you don't have time to enjoy it. Sure you can retire earlier but tomorrow isn't guaranteed. I got a BS in wildlife and fisheries sciences( a "worthless" degree for those not willing to put in the work to get a full time job). It's not a field you're going to find a job in your hometown right out of college, if ever. You need to work summer seasonal jobs in the field through college and usually a year or two of temporary jobs after. Then you have to be willing to move where the work is. I worked 7 different seasonal jobs in 3 states before landing a full time position in another state 600 miles from my hometown. I love my job, make enough to pay the bills and keep my 13 year old truck gassed up for a few out of state hunts every year, and have a flexible enough schedule that my buddies in trade work constantly ask "do you ever work?"

 

[Maverick1]

It does not have to be _____ vs _____.

Discover what you are interested or passionate about, and use the appropriate mechanism to obtain the training and/or educational requirements you need to in that particular field.

 

[*zap*]

I believe there is a lot to be said about a good school/work environment....by that I mean not being around any 'woke' fools...I guess that is hard to do unless you live in a select few states.....or just a very rural work environment.
I work alone so my work environment is usually OK, sometimes csr's are not what I would like but I just charge those folks more....or I say goodbye ..

 

[Poser]

Here’s a specific question that I am curious to see answers to:

Many Gen Zers are wanting to retire by 40, deciding this at 18-20 and then Planning, budgeting and investing their life accordingly around this strategy.

What do you think is the best course of action for someone to fully retire comfortably at the age of 40?

 

[SuperDUECE22]

Why would someone donate to a party that typically is against them?

because they have no say which party their UNION dues contribute too. Just like the teachers union being a major contributor to the Black Lives Matter movement