Collar fit on Daysix arrows?

[MTSabo]

Bryan Broderick told me any 24 hour epoxy is fine, for what it's worth.

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Yep. That's what he told me as well.

 

[Don Qui Puncher]

How were they positioned while drying?

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Hanging off the edge of a flat table, he was telling me I should make a jig so they can stand straight up and down but hanging off the edge should be fine too and that’s how most people do it.

 

[Boxerboxer]

Hanging off the edge of a flat table, he was telling me I should make a jig so they can stand straight up and down but hanging off the edge should be fine too and that’s how most people do it.

For an insert/half-hour only I agree that should be fine. For the footer or whatever you want to call it I could see it maybe being an issue. Then again it's screwed into the halfout so you'd think it would be ok. I used a lamp shade to hold my HD 350s vertical with inserts up and had no post dry spinning issues.

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[Travis Hobbs]

New. 100gr. Got them squared and seem to be spinning fine. Haven’t epoxied anything just yet. Pic is pushed to one side to show the amount of play, it’s not bad probably around that .001 mark, wondering if this is what other guys have seen.

So I got home and looked at mine... they are pretty tight, or at least snug. If I unthread the outsirt and try to wobble it, there really isn’t any play. Don’t get me wrong, its not like a “nock snug” fit... but it’s pretty tight and I’m definitely not seeing a gap on one side or the other no matter how I manipulate them.

 

[sneaky]

I had a similar gap with the 250 vaps and ethics system, the dude from ethics told me the glue would take up the space so I loaded it in there 2 of 12 wouldn’t spin after drying and I checked them every hour or so for the first few hours they were perfect. They sucked to get out of the spyderweb and after a few dozen shots I spun them again and 4 of 12 still spun true I cut them out and in the trash they did go...

Why the heck were you shooting them into a bag target? That wrecks any outsert system. Outserts go into foam and animals.

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[sneaky]

So I got home and looked at mine... they are pretty tight, or at least snug. If I unthread the outsirt and try to wobble it, there really isn’t any play. Don’t get me wrong, its not like a “nock snug” fit... but it’s pretty tight and I’m definitely not seeing a gap on one side or the other no matter how I manipulate them.View attachment 95670

Those were put on there right lol.

For those worried about .001 of an inch gap on the outserts, think of it this way, that is probably less movement than the deflection of your arrow shaft hitting a target with any setup. If you want a super tight fit then that leaves you no room for any sort of epoxy or cyanoacrylate type glue. I think the best part of the system is being able to remove them if they get damaged or you want to change weights.

Funny that some guys are ok shooting .006 arrow shafts and getting spun up over an outsert having. 001 clearance for glue.

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[Don Qui Puncher]

Why the heck were you shooting them into a bag target? That wrecks any outsert system. Outserts go into foam and animals.

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that's not what numb nuts over at ethics told me, I specifically asked him that because I wasn't sure about getting the insert without the collar or the outsert, and he said get the collars they are a little tougher to get out of bag targets but have the added protection. so your telling me they can get pounded into foam and smash ribs and shoulders and still spin true but pulling them out of a spiderweb a couple dozen times ruins them? boy im glad I went with 75 grain brass inserts and footers

 

[Boxerboxer]

that's not what numb nuts over at ethics told me, I specifically asked him that because I wasn't sure about getting the insert without the collar or the outsert, and he said get the collars they are a little tougher to get out of bag targets but have the added protection. so your telling me they can get pounded into foam and smash ribs and shoulders and still spin true but pulling them out of a spiderweb a couple dozen times ruins them? boy im glad I went with 75 grain brass inserts and footers

Let's save that name-calling shit for ArcheryTalk, eh? If the guy says it's fine to shoot bag targets it probably is. Those guys have shot their system at a lot of targets at this point. Mine suck to get out of a bag target as well. I wonder if a small chamfered surface made of glue would make it easier to get them out.

Edit: Just want to make sure this doesn't sound like I'm goin off on you. Imagine me saying it with a smile and punching your shoulder or whatever, friendly like. I like it here because it's not like there.

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[PresTex]

Those were put on there right lol.

For those worried about .001 of an inch gap on the outserts, think of it this way, that is probably less movement than the deflection of your arrow shaft hitting a target with any setup. If you want a super tight fit then that leaves you no room for any sort of epoxy or cyanoacrylate type glue. I think the best part of the system is being able to remove them if they get damaged or you want to change weights.

Funny that some guys are ok shooting .006 arrow shafts and getting spun up over an outsert having. 001 clearance for glue.

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These are designed to be run without glue under the outsert to allow for different collars. They don’t need clearance for glue, and if you choose to glue them you only need enough to hold them in place because it’s the half out underneath holding everything together. The whole point of a system like this is to provide a bulletproof component system that will spin true and hold up on hard bone impacts. I don’t think anyone’s getting “spun up”, just asking questions. I’m sure many of the guys in here just want to build the strongest setup they can.




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[Don Qui Puncher]

Let's save that name-calling shit for ArcheryTalk, eh? If the guy says it's fine to shoot bag targets it probably is. Those guys have shot their system at a lot of targets at this point. Mine suck to get out of a bag target as well. I wonder if a small chamfered surface made of glue would make it easier to get them out.

Edit: Just want to make sure this doesn't sound like I'm goin off on you. Imagine me saying it with a smile and punching your shoulder or whatever, friendly like. I like it here because it's not like there.

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It’s all good Ive never really considered numb nuts as much of an insult, i mean I guess it kinda is I always thought of it kind of calling someone a knuckle head or chooch, a harmless dig. Guess it depends on what part of the country your from

 

[Boxerboxer]

It’s all good Ive never really considered numb nuts as much of an insult, i mean I guess it kinda is I always thought of it kind of calling someone a knuckle head or chooch, a harmless dig. Guess it depends on what part of the country your from

Haha, the damn internet makes communicating harder than it needs to be.

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[sneaky]

that's not what numb nuts over at ethics told me, I specifically asked him that because I wasn't sure about getting the insert without the collar or the outsert, and he said get the collars they are a little tougher to get out of bag targets but have the added protection. so your telling me they can get pounded into foam and smash ribs and shoulders and still spin true but pulling them out of a spiderweb a couple dozen times ruins them? boy im glad I went with 75 grain brass inserts and footers

Nope, and he was trying to sell you outserts, and it worked. The material in those bag style targets wraps around the outserts and wreaks havoc on them. To the point it will stick and you have to rip a hole in your target to get them out, or they'll eventually pull off. Way different deflection response into a homogeneous media like foam where the pressure is more evenly distributed. Very few outsert systems will take a rib or shoulder hit without bending to some degree, but they usually hold up and get the job done, unless a janky long ass mechanical is on the front which provides more leverage to bend them. By the time the animal is dead most guys could care less if that arrow is toast, it did its job.

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[sneaky]

These are designed to be run without glue under the outsert to allow for different collars. They don’t need clearance for glue, and if you choose to glue them you only need enough to hold them in place because it’s the half out underneath holding everything together. The whole point of a system like this is to provide a bulletproof component system that will spin true and hold up on hard bone impacts. I don’t think anyone’s getting “spun up”, just asking questions. I’m sure many of the guys in here just want to build the strongest setup they can.




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I'm pretty familiar with the system considering I built those arrows. Every batch of arrows will have a different OD, the best way to match them is to measure with a micrometer and check the outserts. I didn't glue those on for that very reason, so he can switch them out for different weights or in case of damage. Guys take factory numbers as gospel when there are tolerances that can vary a couple thousandths on the shaft, then add that to outsert tolerances and you start stacking tolerances. Only way to avoid that is to measure, or dry fit BEFORE sanding. I built two dozen of the DaySix arrows for @ntrlbrnhunter and only had to sand about 4 or 5 of them, and that was very very light sanding.

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[PresTex]

I'm pretty familiar with the system considering I built those arrows. Every batch of arrows will have a different OD, the best way to match them is to measure with a micrometer and check the outserts. I didn't glue those on for that very reason, so he can switch them out for different weights or in case of damage. Guys take factory numbers as gospel when there are tolerances that can vary a couple thousandths on the shaft, then add that to outsert tolerances and you start stacking tolerances. Only way to avoid that is to measure, or dry fit BEFORE sanding. I built two dozen of the DaySix arrows for @ntrlbrnhunter and only had to sand about 4 or 5 of them, and that was very very light sanding.

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Maybe I’m confused what your point was in the original post I quoted but you seemed the make the argument that a little slop in between the collar and the shaft is not a big deal because you need room for the epoxy. That was what I was responding to as there shouldn’t be excess room for epoxy because the collar is not intended to be epoxied on and should work without it. It sounds like the ones you built had a pretty tight tolerances and we’re a good fit and required a little sanding to fit like most people describe.


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[Boxerboxer]

Maybe I’m confused what your point was in the original post I quoted but you seemed the make the argument that a little slop in between the collar and the shaft is not a big deal because you need room for the epoxy. That was what I was responding to as there shouldn’t be excess room for epoxy because the collar is not intended to be epoxied on and should work without it. It sounds like the ones you built had a pretty tight tolerances and we’re a good fit and required a little sanding to fit like most people describe.


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With carbon shafts you can tightly control the ID or the OD relatively easily but controlling both is more difficult. If you size so that you're never too loose you're going to have to take off a lot of material in some cases. If you size so that you're never too tight you'll have crazy slop. This is somewhere in the middle. I can't speak for Ethics, but Day Six recommends gluing the footer for durability reasons unless you want the ability to swap out footers of different weights, so to say it wasn't designed to be glued doesn't seem accurate.

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[madkaw284]

With carbon shafts you can tightly control the ID or the OD relatively easily but controlling both is more difficult. If you size so that you're never too loose you're going to have to take off a lot of material in some cases. If you size so that you're never too tight you'll have crazy slop. This is somewhere in the middle. I can't speak for Ethics, but Day Six recommends gluing the footer for durability reasons unless you want the ability to swap out footers of different weights, so to say it wasn't designed to be glued doesn't seem accurate.

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Not trying to argue, but where do they state that they’re intended to be glued on. I really don’t know, I have never use the day six but currently use the ethics and I don’t glue the collar and the shaft did require sanding for fit up.


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[PresTex]

With carbon shafts you can tightly control the ID or the OD relatively easily but controlling both is more difficult. If you size so that you're never too loose you're going to have to take off a lot of material in some cases. If you size so that you're never too tight you'll have crazy slop. This is somewhere in the middle. I can't speak for Ethics, but Day Six recommends gluing the footer for durability reasons unless you want the ability to swap out footers of different weights, so to say it wasn't designed to be glued doesn't seem accurate.

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Maybe I should have worded that better. The system is designed to be used with or without gluing the collar so in my mind you would want the collar undersized then you fit the shaft to it.


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[Boxerboxer]

Not trying to argue, but where do they state that they’re intended to be glued on. I really don’t know, I have never use the day six but currently use the ethics and I don’t glue the collar and the shaft did require sanding for fit up.


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Aron Snyder did a video on installation on Instagram where he talks about it. Making info on installation readily available is a current weak point for them. If you aren't on Instagram you wouldn't have that info without calling and asking.

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[Boxerboxer]

Maybe I should have worded that better. The system is designed to be used with or without gluing the collar so in my mind you would want the collar undersized then you fit the shaft to it.


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The point is to prevent the shaft from mushrooming on impact. My layman's opinion is you probably don't really need it perfectly flush to do that as long as it is close. I agree that perfectly flush is probably ideal, but also suspect it's not completely necessary. Time will tell.

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[PresTex]

The point is to prevent the shaft from mushrooming on impact. My layman's opinion is you probably don't really need it perfectly flush to do that as long as it is close. I agree that perfectly flush is probably ideal, but also suspect it's not completely necessary. Time will tell.

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Agreed. We’ll see what happens either way.


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