Co Point Banking

[Kebler]

So you can buy a land owner voucher in a unit, from a guy cause he owns private land then hunt the public land a guy drew and used his points for?? Sorry I'm still new, that's insane if it's the case.

 

[gonhunting247]

So you can buy a land owner voucher in a unit, from a guy cause he owns private land then hunt the public land a guy drew and used his points for?? Sorry I'm still new, that's insane if it's the case.

I believe in CO you can. I know at least some are unit wide, but I think all are! NM has both kinds for sure.
It is kind of unbelievable.

 

[Kebler]

Out of curiosity are most of theses high demand units, the actual hunt rifle hunts that take theses high points, low land rut and select early rifle? I'm just starting and I am a bow hunter, Im a non res, I'm 99.9 percent sure I will draw my 0 point unit.

my question is how will it effect the 0 to 2 point units, on a archery deer tag, I would plan on hunting for the next decade.

 

[tstowater]

I'm not taking sides, but want to make an observation. As hunters, we have the opportunity to apply for all kinds of draws. From the pure preferences like the Colorado deer and elk to the pure random like the Idaho draws and everything in between. We all have to make decisions as to the type of hunting we want to do and that, with the draw system in place will impact where we will play. Frankly, I have taken the "shotgun' approach like many others so that I will have more overall opportunities to hunt the type of hunt that I want more than anything else. As I have focused on certain animals (sheep, elk, goat, moose and mule deer) and trophy size (elk and mule deer), I end up with points (bonus and/or preference) as a result of not being successful in a draw. Once I shoot the elk and mule deer that I am interested in, I will be changing what I am looking for with those animals. Frankly, I am looking forward to the day that I don't have any points left and can hunt because I want to hunt and not be concerned about loosing points. If you have put all your eggs in the Colorado basket, I could see why you could be happy or unhappy, but most of us hunters have diversified to several states for a reason.

 

[Bar]

So you can buy a land owner voucher in a unit, from a guy cause he owns private land then hunt the public land a guy drew and used his points for?? Sorry I'm still new, that's insane if it's the case.

I'm not sure if there's different types of vouchers, or not? I was given a voucher by a land owner. I never asked for it. He called me up, and asked me if I wanted it. I took the voucher, and presented it when I bought the tag. The rest of the process was just like buying a tag, but there was no draw. I was restricted to hunting just his private land. Although he lets all hunters hunt his land, so it was more like hunting public land, except I was restricted to his land only, and the other hunters could hunt the whole unit.


Here's a question for all of you. If you have a tag/voucher for private land, and the animal you shoot runs on to public land. Can you go get it?

 

[Kebler]

I see that's how I assumed it worked yeah some private where there are people can be worse than public allot worse.

 

[CoHiCntry]

Here's a question for all of you. If you have a tag/voucher for private land, and the animal you shoot runs on to public land. Can you go get it?

Yes, you can!!! Talk about "stealing opportunity from the youth". LO vouchers are good for the whole unit not just private land. I know a particular wealthy guy who owns substantial land in unit 61. He get's on average 4-6 rifle bull elk tags every year. He doles these out to his other rich friends and they usually all shoot decent bulls every year. How is that fair?

I don't support or am against point banking. I can see both sides of the argument. Saying a kid can't hunt deer until he's 19 or 20 isn't true though. They might not be able to hunt in a particular unit, but there's always other "opportunity" units. I have kids and one is at hunting age. She can't draw certain units because of points but that doesn't mean we can't get out together and have some really good times hunting together. This all comes down to "trophy" hunting... otherwise no one would care.

 

[Bar]

Yes, you can!!! Talk about "stealing opportunity from the youth". LO vouchers are good for the whole unit not just private land. I know a particular wealthy guy who owns substantial land in unit 61. He get's on average 4-6 rifle bull elk tags every year. He doles these out to his other rich friends and they usually all shoot decent bulls every year. How is that fair?

I don't support or am against point banking. I can see both sides of the argument. Saying a kid can't hunt deer until he's 19 or 20 isn't true though. They might not be able to hunt in a particular unit, but there's always other "opportunity" units. I have kids and one is at hunting age. She can't draw certain units because of points but that doesn't mean we can't get out together and have some really good times hunting together. This all comes down to "trophy" hunting... otherwise no one would care.

Let me reword it. Some vouchers are only good for the land owners property. Lets assume that's the case, or we can talk about a private land tag you got in the draw. Can you still go get the deer if it runs on public land after you shoot it? I asked a warden this question, so I do know the answer. What say you?

 

[robby denning]

In Colorado there are two types of Landowner Vouchers, depending on the unit

1) Unit Wide- you can hunt the landowner's property and the public ground. These are usually more valuable.
2) Private Property Only- Can only hunt the private land from who you received the voucher. Not typically as valuable depending on the ranch.

Colorado changed the law a few years ago. The landowner must let you hunt his land. Says so right on the voucher. Landowners not allowing public access will be kicked out of the program. I've had Game and Fish check me before in Colorado to make sure I was offered access. Now, some hunters make a deal with the landowner not to hunt their land for a lesser price, but that isn't illegal, just an arrangement between landowner and hunter.

For those of you new to this issue, the Landowner program was designed to recognize the fact that while the state (the public) owns the game, landowners control a significant portion of critical wildlife habitat. By working with landowners, instead of just saying "screw 'em, the state owns the game" landowners (many who couldn't care less about hunting) have a vested interest in protecting wildlife habitat. We can argue if this is the right approach, but just to ignore landowners will likely result in less opportunity for hunters in the long run. Virtually every state has some type of reward program for landowners, so Colorado isn't the lone ranger on this.

I know of one ranch in Colorado's ski country that participates in the landowner voucher program that is worth $8 million dollars. The landowner has told me several times that the voucher system is one of several reasons he's never sold out to the developers that want to buy his ranch. He makes $30,000+ per year from the system (a drop in the bucket compared to the ranch's worth) but enough to give him warm fuzzys about hunters that he'd otherwise not have.

 

[CoHiCntry]

Let me reword it. Some vouchers are only good for the land owners property. Lets assume that's the case, or we can talk about a private land tag you got in the draw. Can you still go get the deer if it runs on public land after you shoot it? I asked a warden this question, so I do know the answer. What say you?

I have no idea? If your hunting public land, shoot something and it runs onto private, your supposed to call the game warden so they can contact the land owner and retrieve the animal. I'm assuming the same would be true in reverse? If I shot something on private land with a private land only tag I'd probably call the game warden to explain the situation to avoid any trouble.

 

[Kebler]

Good info clears that up for me, I could only speculate guys buying the unit wide are Probbably hunting that private ground unless it has some special feature to allow access to some other wise land locked public lands??

 

[orionthehunter1]

Depends if your hunting elk in say unit 61 with a voucher the public is as good as the private.

 

[robby denning]

Kebler, depends on the season and the private ground. Some of the private ground doesn't have any game until 3rd or 4th season and is why the tags are unit-wide or they'd be worthless for earlier seasons.

 

[Bar]

I have no idea? If your hunting public land, shoot something and it runs onto private, your supposed to call the game warden so they can contact the land owner and retrieve the animal. I'm assuming the same would be true in reverse? If I shot something on private land with a private land only tag I'd probably call the game warden to explain the situation to avoid any trouble.

That's what I thought at first too. The warden told me I wouldn't have to call a warden, but if one were to stop me it would have to be obvious that the animal came from the private land. Like a blood trail, or some sign it was shot on private land.

 

[sakalmon]

If Co believes the land owner vouchers are beneficial to hunters maybe they should try a study. I would support landowner tags if they were only for the ranch or property they were sold for. Why should I wait 13 (for resident)years for a 61 bull tag and a guy with a pocket full of cash buy one anytime he wants? Take a look in unit 61 during hunting season sometime and see where the game is. These might be studys worth our licencse dollars instead of the humpback chub. I asked these questions on the Co. dow web site where they will get back to you within 24 hours a few months ago,still waiting.

 

[5MilesBack]

I just love the way people cry that something "isn't fair". Where does it say that hunting access has to be fair? Next thing guys will be demanding access to private land to hunt.........oh ya, they already are.

Guy buys a LO Tag for $10k......."that isn't fair". Guy buys a $40 million ranch........."that isn't fair". Ya, I guess we should require the landowner to share his wealth with everyone, and the guy that can afford LO Tags should share his wealth with everyone as well. Sound familiar.........just like our illustrious liberals in government.

 

[ColoradoV]

Under point banking 0 point units for deer will be a thing of the past. This is true. Simply too many hunters for to few tags. Point leap of 2-3 points in any current draw unit that currently takes 1-6 points to draw is expected.

I am against vouchers as well or any time you use one you should use your points. All vouchers are not bought. When you grow up around ranching and landowners friends just give them out to family to hunt more than a lot of you realize. They are not going away and this discussion is about point banking that is not related to LO vouchers but feel free to start a LO thread as good discussion would pry ensue.

Don't think that kids are shooting for 4 th season 44 but I would like then to hunt a current 1 to 2 point unit before they are 20... Under point banking this will not happen. If you have someone hunting 2,3,4 or 5 years in a row someone will not be hunting 2,3,4,5, or six years in a row. The hunters who will not hunt are the lowest point holder and in 2018 there is no lower point holder than a current 10 year old.

The boys in Vegas make a ton of cash off of reasonable folks who don't understand statistics and percentages. If you believe that hunting every year on leftovers or in 0 point units will happen under point banking... Well don't go to Vegas or you will be one of the guys powering all the lights!

Thanks to all posters for the discussion.

 

[realunlucky]

I just love the way people cry that something "isn't fair". Where does it say that hunting access has to be fair? Next thing guys will be demanding access to private land to hunt.........oh ya, they already are.

Guy buys a LO Tag for $10k......."that isn't fair". Guy buys a $40 million ranch........."that isn't fair". Ya, I guess we should require the landowner to share his wealth with everyone, and the guy that can afford LO Tags should share his wealth with everyone as well. Sound familiar.........just like our illustrious liberals in government.

Sounds like your saying that all license should go to highest bidder because after all everybody has an equal chance that way. Of course that's a discussion for another thread

 

[realunlucky]

Under point banking 0 point units for deer will be a thing of the past. This is true. Simply too many hunters for to few tags. Point leap of 2-3 points in any current draw unit that currently takes 1-6 points to draw is expected.

I am against vouchers as well or any time you use one you should use your points. All vouchers are not bought. When you grow up around ranching and landowners friends just give them out to family to hunt more than a lot of you realize. They are not going away and this discussion is about point banking that is not related to LO vouchers but feel free to start a LO thread as good discussion would pry ensue.

Don't think that kids are shooting for 4 th season 44 but I would like then to hunt a current 1 to 2 point unit before they are 20... Under point banking this will not happen. If you have someone hunting 2,3,4 or 5 years in a row someone will not be hunting 2,3,4,5, or six years in a row. The hunters who will not hunt are the lowest point holder and in 2018 there is no lower point holder than a current 10 year old.

The boys in Vegas make a ton of cash off of reasonable folks who don't understand statistics and percentages. If you believe that hunting every year on leftovers or in 0 point units will happen under point banking... Well don't go to Vegas or you will be one of the guys powering all the lights!

Thanks to all posters for the discussion.

I think it will not make any drastic changes for awhile while everyone adjusts and tries to figure out how it affects their strategy. I really don't see how it will improve point creep other than providing options for top heavy point holders to cash out which in turn makes next guy down the line get a point.

 

[sakalmon]

I guess we should all bend over and let the rich people do the hunting. Those landowners deserve them tags much more than yous poor folk.