Cliff Gray interview of Tim Sundles

[streamerfish]

I mean his 6.5 creedmoor rant was pretty funny. Sure I agree that Hornady are great at marketing, but saying that the cartridge is a fraud and people were just being deceived is pretty funny.

I didn't listen to every minute of it, I've heard lots of smug idiots spouting the same crap when it comes the caliber stuff, big bullet, big caliber, stupid shooting angles blah blah blah. I think at this point its just willful ignorance. I know I'm wrong but i will never admit it type of stuff because I built my brand on X thought process.

The wolf stuff, elk numbers, hunting and anti hunting stuff....Yeah, that discussion, I would like to say its a conspiracy theory what he says. But frankly, I'm not sure that he is wrong. He may very well be right. It's very clear and obvious that a growing and very loud portion of people want guns to be gone, and hunting to be gone. So yeah, maybe.

 

[streamerfish]

I joined this forum expressly to comment on this thread.

I live in an area that has a lot of elk and therefore elk hunters. I take several hunters every year. I have friends that are guides.

Most of the elk that get killed, bows and guns alike are shot bad. I have shot some bad. My guide buddies rarely tell stories of animals being killed well.

It seems to me that people who don’t have regular encounters w elk tend to screw it up.

If you aren’t a serious elk hunter on public, and don’t hunt a lot of days on private that hold elk, you are probably gonna screw up for a while.

My observation is if you don’t fall in to the above two categories. You got lucky, and are likely rushed. And they ain’t gonna be there tomorrow.

Ethics are the stories we tell ourselves before we pull up.

Maybe .416s are the way to go

All the other shit is just fun to listen to.

Welcome!

I would agree with you that most hunters are bad shots, especially with their hunting rifle, probably an overwhelming number. It would be interesting to see how many people shot more then 100 practice rounds a year with their big game hunting rifle.

Is it even 1%? Somehow I doubt it.

But, beyond even all the stuff here on this site. Theirs's actual studies and data from multiple sources and multiple government agencies, multiple countries etc that pretty conclusively show that the lower the rifle recoil, the more accurate the shooter. Especially over multiple shots.

And, beyond what is said here, plenty of data and studies out there that show that type of bullet matters much more then size of bullet when it comes to the ability to kill something as quickly as possible.

Doesn't mean that everyone has to shoot a 223 with a TMK, or shoot a TMK period as an example. (for myself there is definitely a point of too much tissue damage, especially on smaller animals).

But there isn't really a question of what kind of bullets "kill" best, its just a matter of what you want to use yourself and understanding what the bullet does or does not do. (and in the end it may or may not matter).

 

[huntnful]

I listened to it. Took it with a grain of salt for sure. Overall I think it was fine. Everyone has their own experiences and views. Never heard of him before listening to that podcast.

 

[Gourmet]

His point that states that are requiring no lead was to reduce hunting doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It's not like hunting is done by poor people. Most of the people it seems have lots of expensive toys. He's definitely in the camp of everyone is out to get hunters and people who have guns. Sure, there is some of that.

I agree with you. Him saying that that no one switched to non-lead bullets for environmental reasons, that it's only performance based, shows a lack of intellectual capacity.

 

[Telford29]

I listened to the whole thing at work today. The caliber talk and gut shooting segment was hard to get through. The rest of it was interesting. I am pretty sure Cliff knew what kind of response he was going to get here. Props to him for a good podcast. Looking forward to the next one.

 

[Live_weighT34]

I listened, it was entertaining. Might go elk hunting with a 416 now. (Im being facetious) but it would be cool to kill a 300” or bigger bull with a 416 Rigby

 

[Ralphie]

I enjoyed listening to the podcast.

Many years ago i emailed buffalo bore with a 45 colt ammo question. Tim is the one who emailed me back with a pretty dang detailed and helpful response.

 

[Cliff Gray]

Appreciate the post on this and everyone's thoughts.

Do I agree with everything that everyone on my podcast says, of course not... But I can't think of any interview that I've done where I didn't learn something from the other person. Tim is no different. to boot, Tim is one of the most enjoyable guys to bs with. Great experience out in the woods, loves to tell stories, and enjoys discussing his takeaways. Many other folks that are a little "controversial" that I have had on are similar.

On pushing back.... why would I? I don't have the experience with large cartridges that Tim has, I probably never will. I'm not him. I'm not going to extrapolate my experience in other scenarios, with other rifles, other styles of hunting into an abrupt conversation stopper of "you're wrong". That is asinine. Do I try to ask follow-up questions that dig deeper into "the why" a certain opinion would be? I try, and that is an art that I am working to improve. There are times I think I asked Tim good follow-up questions and times I could have done better.

 

[huntnful]

Appreciate the post on this and everyone's thoughts.

Do I agree with everything that everyone on my podcast says, of course not... But I can't think of any interview that I've done where I didn't learn something from the other person. Tim is no different. to boot, Tim is one of the most enjoyable guys to bs with. Great experience out in the woods, loves to tell stories, and enjoys discussing his takeaways. Many other folks that are a little "controversial" that I have had on are similar.

On pushing back.... why would I? I don't have the experience with large cartridges that Tim has, I probably never will. I'm not him. I'm not going to extrapolate my experience in other scenarios, with other rifles, other styles of hunting into an abrupt conversation stopper of "you're wrong". That is asinine. Do I try to ask follow-up questions that dig deeper into "the why" a certain opinion would be? I try, and that is an art that I am working to improve. There are times I think I asked Tim good follow-up questions and times I could have done better.

You did fine. Not every single conversation needs to be about proving small calibers are effective and debating terminal performance IMO. Dudes killed a 100 elk and thinks a 340 weatherby is a better choice than a 6.5 CM for a quartering away shot at close range…. Doesn’t seem too far fetched. He was very use case specific as well.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

"My name's Tim Sundles....... and I've drunk more beer and banged more quiff and pissed more blood and stomped more ass than all of you numbnuts put together!"

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

I've worked and trained with A LOT of USFS LEOs and NPS LEOs over 20+ years. Many are former SF or SpecOps guys that want to bug out of the urban life and be a recluse.

Go ahead and run your suck about what you're going to do to them, and what you're not going to comply with at a remote trail head.....I'll wait

 

[Cliff Gray]

"My name's Tim Sundles....... and I've drunk more beer and banged more quiff and pissed more blood and stomped more ass than all of you numbnuts put together!"

BWHAHAHAHA

 

[TxxAgg]

He’s got that “Dog The Bounty Hunter” vibe

I did enjoy the interview

 

[Xnoheros]

Appreciate the post on this and everyone's thoughts.

Do I agree with everything that everyone on my podcast says, of course not... But I can't think of any interview that I've done where I didn't learn something from the other person. Tim is no different. to boot, Tim is one of the most enjoyable guys to bs with. Great experience out in the woods, loves to tell stories, and enjoys discussing his takeaways. Many other folks that are a little "controversial" that I have had on are similar.

On pushing back.... why would I? I don't have the experience with large cartridges that Tim has, I probably never will. I'm not him. I'm not going to extrapolate my experience in other scenarios, with other rifles, other styles of hunting into an abrupt conversation stopper of "you're wrong". That is asinine. Do I try to ask follow-up questions that dig deeper into "the why" a certain opinion would be? I try, and that is an art that I am working to improve. There are times I think I asked Tim good follow-up questions and times I could have done better.

Honestly yeah - I thought you did great. Gotta let those guys run, and the truth or lack of always comes through regardless.

I’ll be totally content killing 1/10th the amount of elk as him if I never have to gut shoot one with a cannon though

 

[North of 60]

@Cliff Gray - I have a lot of respect for artfully dealing with difficult people. Also, to not automatically debate because of lack of confirmation bias.

Glad you're out there making podcasts and youtube videos about learning skills/better hunting in the great outdoors

 

[gbflyer]

I've worked and trained with A LOT of USFS LEOs and NPS LEOs over 20+ years. Many are former SF or SpecOps guys that want to bug out of the urban life and be a recluse.

Go ahead and run your suck about what you're going to do to them, and what you're not going to comply with at a remote trail head.....I'll wait

Those ones must not come to Alaska.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[7mm-08]

Appreciate the post on this and everyone's thoughts.

Do I agree with everything that everyone on my podcast says, of course not... But I can't think of any interview that I've done where I didn't learn something from the other person. Tim is no different. to boot, Tim is one of the most enjoyable guys to bs with. Great experience out in the woods, loves to tell stories, and enjoys discussing his takeaways. Many other folks that are a little "controversial" that I have had on are similar.

On pushing back.... why would I? I don't have the experience with large cartridges that Tim has, I probably never will. I'm not him. I'm not going to extrapolate my experience in other scenarios, with other rifles, other styles of hunting into an abrupt conversation stopper of "you're wrong". That is asinine. Do I try to ask follow-up questions that dig deeper into "the why" a certain opinion would be? I try, and that is an art that I am working to improve. There are times I think I asked Tim good follow-up questions and times I could have done better.

Sorry if this offends you, Cliff, but its all about your clicks.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Sorry if this offends you, Cliff, but its all about your clicks.

Well duh

It’s funny how the caliber debates will be regurgitated until an asteroid hits earth and wipes out 99% of humans. Then it will be argued on cave rocks for a few thousand years.

At least cavemen weren’t thirsty influencers. Now there’s a good commercial in there somewhere…