Clickers. . 7 SAUM . . Im confused

[rootacres]

Ok reloading vets, I am stumped on this one.

Here's the situation. I have clickers, 2 different brass, 2 different powder, 2 PROOF barrels, same result. My most recent range trip was Bertram brass (same results with ADG), H1000 with loads 1-3 grains below book max. I understand basic pressure signs, no flat primers, no ejector marks, no carbon ring etc. These loads were mild compared to what book states.

I have clickers on darn near every one of them. I have a Whidden custom bushing sizing die.

Fast forward to now, I have redone the entire setup on the Whidden die in the event I did it wrong the first time.

Does bumping the shoulder back too far possibly cause clickers?

I now have it set for a 2-3 thou shoulder bump. These will be the next range trip test.

What am I missing / doing wrong?

Never had this with 7 WSM or 300 WSM.

Thank you,

PFA

 

[WKR]

Who chambered the barrels and what condition was the reamer in?

Edit: have you looked to see if your sizing die is sizing all the way down the case?

 

[rootacres]

Who chambered the barrels and what condition was the reamer in?

Straight Jacket Armory, the barrels were chambered ~3 years apart.

 

[WKR]

Straight Jacket Armory, the barrels were chambered ~3 years apart.

I edited my original post, asking about your sizing die set up.

 

[rootacres]

I edited my original post, asking about your sizing die set up.

I have 2 sizing dies, RCBS FL and the Whidden. It's possible that it's not sizing all the way down. With the Whidden, the further I set the die down the further I bump the shoulder back.

 

[WKR]

I would look into that first thing. If you find that your sizer is not sizing down far enough on the case body that can cause clickers and tough extraction.

If that is the case I'd try a different die like a SAC or the bullet central micron

 

[wind gypsy]

How much are the cases growing in diameter 0.200” up from the case head? What is the diameter after being fired and after being sized?

How many firings on this brass?

 

[rootacres]

How much are the cases growing in diameter 0.200” up from the case head? What is the diameter after being fired and after being sized?

How many firings on this brass?

2nd firing on this brass

I just measured a few, looks like .002"-.003" sized to fired.

Ive always wondered if the shell plate on an RL550B was taller than a RCBS single stage shell holder. Not allowing the brass to go into the sizing die fully. But there's no issue getting the brass far enough into the Whidden die to bump the shoulder back .002"-.003" like they recommend.

**It's probably worth mentioning, I didnt get clickers on first firings of virgin brass. Both with ADG and the Bertram.

 

[TaperPin]

A number of recently designed cartridges have pretty minimal taper to the sides of the case, which can contribute to clickers at low pressure. Clickers are from the case sticking to the chamber walls somewhere. A rough or dirty chamber also increases the odds of getting clickers. If the chamber is on the rough side, a gunsmith might lightly polish it with something like 800 grit sandpaper. Small base dies reduce the diameter closer to the case head, which might help.

I’ve heard of cases where it took a reamer with slightly larger taper to add a few extra .001” near the base. Some gunsmiths modify a such a reamer so it won’t cut the shoulder or above, or maybe they simply order it that way.

 

[rootacres]

A number of recently designed cartridges have pretty minimal taper to the sides of the case, which can contribute to clickers at low pressure. Clickers are from the case sticking to the chamber walls somewhere. A rough or dirty chamber also increases the odds of getting clickers. If the chamber is on the rough side, a gunsmith might lightly polish it with something like 800 grit sandpaper. Small base dies reduce the diameter closer to the case head, which might help.

I’ve heard of cases where it took a reamer with slightly larger taper to add a few extra .001” near the base. Some gunsmiths modify a such a reamer so it won’t cut the shoulder or above, or maybe they simply order it that way.

Thank you for the help. I am going to take a look at my chamber. I could polish it up. Unfortunately, the 7 SAUM sits in an unpopular spot so the small base dies aren't an option to my knowledge.

 

[Castle Rock]

The issue you see is common
The fix is to have the base of the chamber opened up a couple of thousandths, the chamber reamer didn’t allow for enough clearance for the brass

 

[Ringbill27]

Alright…. I’m fairly new to reloading and on the most shoot2hunt podcast “clickers” were mentioned a bit. What’s a clicker?

 

[TaperPin]

Thank you for the help. I am going to take a look at my chamber. I could polish it up. Unfortunately, the 7 SAUM sits in an unpopular spot so the small base dies aren't an option to my knowledge.

Unfortunately I don’t have any good advice for polishing the chamber by hand. It’s quite easy when the barrel is removed and spinning in the lathe to run in a dowel wrapped in 800 grit and to simply hold it to one side of the chamber by feel, then clean it well and check with a bore scope.

It should be said that you don’t want to polish it completely smooth - there needs to be something for the brass to grip to. It might already have the ideal finish and messing with it could make it worse. I’d check with a bore scope to see how rough it is.

Good luck - whatever you do let us know what worked and what didn’t!

I’m not suggesting that you try this, only sharing what others have done to make a die to squeeze the case down closer to the base. If you grind 1/16” (or more if needed) off the bottom of a 300 ultra mag sizing die and take out the expander completely, it will get smaller and smaller at the base the farther it goes down around the case. The angle is slightly different so it will only squeeze the lower part of the case, and you would still need to size the die with your normal sizer, but it will reduce the diameter just in front of the head.

 

[TaperPin]

Alright…. I’m fairly new to reloading and on the most shoot2hunt podcast “clickers” were mentioned a bit. What’s a clicker?

It’s when the case sticks in the chamber slightly and the bolt handle has to have some pressure on it to extract and kind of makes a click sound as the case comes free and the handle hits it’s upward limit of movement.

 

[Castle Rock]

Yep, most commonly seen with actions that lack primary extraction, like a badly timed Remington, doesn’t occur in something like a Mauser

 

[Andouille]

It’s when the case sticks in the chamber slightly and the bolt handle has to have some pressure on it to extract and kind of makes a click sound as the case comes free and the handle hits it’s upward limit of movement.

Thanks for that a great description. Can you clarify the difference between a clicker and a "stiff bolt lift" that would result from a hot charge? Would the stiff bolt not typically make the click?

I've not thought about the difference when extracting spent cases... but will now.

 

[Article 4]

Unfortunately I don’t have any good advice for polishing the chamber by hand. It’s quite easy when the barrel is removed and spinning in the lathe to run in a dowel wrapped in 800 grit and to simply hold it to one side of the chamber by feel, then clean it well and check with a bore scope.

It should be said that you don’t want to polish it completely smooth - there needs to be something for the brass to grip to. It might already have the ideal finish and messing with it could make it worse. I’d check with a bore scope to see how rough it is.

Good luck - whatever you do let us know what worked and what didn’t!

I’m not suggesting that you try this, only sharing what others have done to make a die to squeeze the case down closer to the base. If you grind 1/16” (or more if needed) off the bottom of a 300 ultra mag sizing die and take out the expander completely, it will get smaller and smaller at the base the farther it goes down around the case. The angle is slightly different so it will only squeeze the lower part of the case, and you would still need to size the die with your normal sizer, but it will reduce the diameter just in front of the head.

Agree here. Trying to polish a chamber by hand is a difficult proposition.
I would first try to clean it as much as you can, and I mean clean it. Completely

I would not attempt anything else until you do that - after you are 100% sure it is fully clean, clean your fired cases completely and rechamber. If you still get clickers or any kind of resistance, then go on to either your smith to polish or then attempting to additionally work your brass or other parts.

 

[TaperPin]

Thanks for that a great description. Can you clarify the difference between a clicker and a "stiff bolt lift" that would result from a hot charge? Would the stiff bolt not typically make the click?

I've not thought about the difference when extracting spent cases... but will now.

Glad that helped.
They can be the same thing caused by high pressure - the clicker just doesn’t need as much force as a really stiff bolt lift. I suppose a bolt that someone uses uses a rubber mallet to open would make some kind of noise as the case breaks free.

 

[archp625]

I've never used Bertram brass but I am thinking its two issues. I think chambers are tighter now more than ever. Tighter chambers typically means more accuracy and who doesn't love an accurate gun. But if it gets a little dirty or you hunt with the rifle then all bets are off. The second, I believe is ADG brass. I have given up on ADG brass. Had it for a 6.5 PRC and for a 300 WSM. Both produced clickers. I think its just too dang hard of brass.

 

[BBob]

Tighter chambers typically means more accuracy and who doesn't love an accurate gun.

Yeah no, I wholly disagree. Accuracy minded BR of all disciplines have completely moved away from that notion and guns are shooting smaller than ever.