Chopper Hunts Into Landlocked Public Land

[StupidLightweight]

When I imagine a scenario where a public land hunter steals a head from one of the guides’ clients I hope they would be treated with the same grace (no hunter harassment and just theft under $1k).

Great way to look at it. In that scenario, the public land hunter would likely be charged with a felony, receive jail time, and have their vehicle and rifle/bow seized.

I also imagine myself in that situation and being in Montana there is never a time I don’t have at least one unfilled tag so would be curious if hunter harassment could be brought with a deer/turkey/bear tag when retrieving an elk skull, presuming I was carrying my rifle.

One of the hunters had a valid deer and cougar tag, but that didn't matter to the game wardens. According to WY game and fish, hunter harassment pretty much only applies to tampering with an active hunt, as in spooking a herd or animal while another hunter is actively stalking. It's baffling. I would love to know how many times hunter harassment charges have been applied to a land owner. I bet it ain't much.

 

[mt terry d]

Good question. I’m curious to know if “camping” is defined.

Veering off topic here. I like to travel on motorcycle and just throw down my sleeping bag
wherever I end up for the day. Many turnouts, fishing accesses, etc say "no camping".
I asked our sheriff and he couldn't define it; just said "we wouldn't bother anyone for that"
which does me no good because if I'm in my own county i'll just go to my house.

I'm betting "camping" is defined by whoever is in power in any given area.
If some area actually has a definition I'll bet it's also vague and left to the local
sheriff to define.
Using a vague undefined word to give more power to those in power.
..............................


A trophy 6pt head isn't valued over $1000?
In Montana I think it's an $8000 fine.

The system protects itself.

 

[Beendare]

Of course Wyoming is going to try and find a way to make this illegal. The outfitter welfare will have to kick in. I find it to be a huge load of BS that the rancher wasn't charged with hunter harassment.

Agreed. This is one of the most outrageous cases of Wardens pandering to Ranchers that I've ever seen.

Let's hope these hunters push this hard in the courts. They caught the rancher trying to steal their bull. Thats not just petty theft, thats a big deal. How much is a LO tag in the Gila in NM- over $20,000. How much is a hunt for quality animals like that- $7,500 minimum plus the expenses....thats well over $10k, $15k.

Then there is the constitution where everyone is the same under the law- unless you are a rancher in Wyoming then you can do whatever you want.

I have a soft spot for farmers and ranchers...but not when they pull that crap.

 

[OKHunter84]

Agreed. This is one of the most outrageous cases of Wardens pandering to Ranchers that I've ever seen.

Let's hope these hunters push this hard in the courts. They caught the rancher trying to steal their bull. Thats not just petty theft, thats a big deal. How much is a LO tag in the Gila in NM- over $20,000. How much is a hunt for quality animals like that- $7,500 minimum plus the expenses....thats well over $10k, $15k.

Then there is the constitution where everyone is the same under the law- unless you are a rancher in Wyoming then you can do whatever you want.

I have a soft spot for farmers and ranchers...but not when they pull that crap.

Yeah man, I have a soft spot for anyone still trying to make a living with farming or ranching as well. This behavior is contrary to most of the experiences I've had with them. That being said, this is definitely not a unique situation where they feel that they're entitled to the wildlife or public land that belongs to all of us. I'm sure anyone who's spent much time out west has seen despicable behavior by both public land users and ranchers.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

Agreed. This is one of the most outrageous cases of Wardens pandering to Ranchers that I've ever seen.

Let's hope these hunters push this hard in the courts. They caught the rancher trying to steal their bull. Thats not just petty theft, thats a big deal. How much is a LO tag in the Gila in NM- over $20,000. How much is a hunt for quality animals like that- $7,500 minimum plus the expenses....thats well over $10k, $15k.

Then there is the constitution where everyone is the same under the law- unless you are a rancher in Wyoming then you can do whatever you want.

I have a soft spot for farmers and ranchers...but not when they pull that crap.

I’m not disagreeing but I thought about this as well. They state in the video above that the rancher charges $6500 for the hunt, BUT the hunt wasn’t stolen, nor was the meat, just the head and antlers. A nice 6x6 euro mount is probably under $1k on marketplace at least in the west, maybe they go for more in different regions, idk, so from that angle I think at least the monetary value of the object stolen is probably correct.

BUT, I think if roles were reversed the rancher would absolutely be trying to get the full $6500, which is where you and I and most on this forum have a problem with the law being used differently depending on the individual.

I’m guessing it’s a 5 day hunt with meals included so by the time you divide all that out, plus ~$5?/lb for the meat I think a difficult case to prove a skull and antlers are worth the entire cost of the hunt.

On the other hand, at least in Montana, if an elk scores over a certain score (320”) they have trophy restitution fee of $8k. I believe this is specific to poaching as it’s worded “unlawfully taken” but wonder if a case could be made for theft as well as it doesn’t say harvest, just taken? Not sure if that bull was 320” but was certainly close to or over 300” I’d guess.

 

[mt terry d]

This actually ties into the thread

What has being nice really done for us?​

The real root of the problem is not the "antis", it's the people
within the "game management system" that make all this crap possible.
Just like the Forest Service and their policies of making public use of FS land
(it's really not theirs you know) difficult and expensive and the massive
forest fires we've experienced.
You could fairly say "antis" is synonymous with "Game Management Agencies",
both state and federal.

These guys with their "I understand why the rancher feels this way" as a half-assed
excuse for the rancher's behavior is BS. There is no excuse. That's not his f'n land.
He feels he's entitled because he's been allowed to this for so long. He's an a$$hole,
and not even a likeable one. And those in the Game Management System protect him.
It's not just Wyoming. Montana has more than its share. Probably every other state.
The Governors, courts, sheriffs, wardens, etc, are all part of that system. That's where
the anger and frustration needs to be directed.

This is where I strongly disagree with Robbie Denning's approach in his interview
with the head (I think) of Montana FWP on CWD. I think anytime these "higher-ups"
are accessible like this they need to be called out (respectfully and civilly) when they
play the "authority card" and spout pure false, illogical and contradictory BS.

My bet is if these guys push it in court (which I'd like to see to bring more attention
to this obvious abuse of power ) they (the hunters) will pay a big price financially.
Wouldn't be surprised if they lose some hunting privileges; unless of course if they
happen to be in US Army Reserves.

 

[OKHunter84]

I'm really frustrated that they blurred his face and aren't sharing his identity. It would be nice to let other hunters know to not book with this guy in the future.

 

[Beendare]

I’m not disagreeing but I thought about this as well. They state in the video above that the rancher charges $6500 for the hunt, BUT the hunt wasn’t stolen, nor was the meat, just the head and antlers. A nice 6x6 euro mount is probably under $1k on marketplace at least in the west, maybe they go for more in different regions, idk, so from that angle I think at least the monetary value of the object stolen is probably correct.

BUT, I think if roles were reversed the rancher would absolutely be trying to get the full $6500, which is where you and I and most on this forum have a problem with the law being used differently depending on the individual.

I’m guessing it’s a 5 day hunt with meals included so by the time you divide all that out, plus ~$5?/lb for the meat I think a difficult case to prove a skull and antlers are worth the entire cost of the hunt.

On the other hand, at least in Montana, if an elk scores over a certain score (320”) they have trophy restitution fee of $8k. I believe this is specific to poaching as it’s worded “unlawfully taken” but wonder if a case could be made for theft as well as it doesn’t say harvest, just taken? Not sure if that bull was 320” but was certainly close to or over 300” I’d guess.

I think you just made my case- grin

Any way you slice it...those GW's bent over for that landowner and did those hunters dirty.

America was built on fairness...but I'm not going to kid myself, money talks in far too many cases. So many examples.

That doesn't mean it should be the same here. That rancher and those GW's need to be held accountable.

It's too bad the state AG or the DOJ doesn't step in on this to nip it in the bud before something catastrophic happens like a Chopper getting shot down. And yes, I know of cases where landowners would defend their land with a firearm- and this case where the LO treats public land like its is theirs is not too far off.

 

[StupidLightweight]

Any way you slice it...those GW's bent over for that landowner and did those hunters dirty.

That doesn't mean it should be the same here. That rancher and those GW's need to be held accountable.

It's too bad the state AG or the DOJ doesn't step in on this to nip it in the bud before something catastrophic happens like a Chopper getting shot down. And yes, I know of cases where landowners would defend their land with a firearm- and this case where the LO treats public land like its is theirs is not too far off.

So true. This is a cut-and-dried opportunity to prevent conflict escalation.