Choosing a Dog

[KurtR]

I'll follow up. Pup gets dropped off September 1. I'll pick her up and a week later heading up North to the grouse woods.

I'm very familiar with the trainer. I've been going to him with another dog for almost 2 years now. (Wife wouldn't let me send her)

Must already have a good amount of training and getting tuned up for the season in that 6 weeks . Most basic gun dog programs in the retriever world are 4 months minimum. That would be a started dog. Average cost at 900-1100 a month.

 

[loganwayne]

She already has been exposed to birds, exposed to gun fire, and working on a steady point.

He has a different training setup than most. He doesn't keep any dog for more than 6 weeks straight.

He trains a basic retriever program as well in the 6 weeks.

He makes no clames that the dogs are finished. He gets the dogs to a proficient enough level that they are huntable.

He may be different but has plenty of ukc pointing trials wins on dogs he trained.


If I wanted to finish a dog with him it would be a year long process. With 6 weeks with him 4-6 home and continuing until the dog is finished

 

[Tleek]

Find a litter you like then post it on here regardless of breed im sure someone will be able to help or talk to a trainer who has run dogs with those lines. You will get alot of answers. Make sure the trainer does not own either the stud or bitch so you get honest answers.

https://gundogcentral.com/hunting-dogs-for-sale/english-setter/77396

This is the setter I was referring to.

 

[Tleek]

get the right one and train it they can be . The standard poodle was originally bred to be a hunting dog before the show ring got ahold of them

i will add this if you are a hardcore guy who will go out 60 days a year not the dog for you but if you are the casual person who goes every now and then it would do the job.

My wife originally wanted a standard poodle. I knew people hunted with them occasionally, but didn’t know they were still considered good hunting dogs. Honestly the only reason I knew people hunted them was from that dove hunting episode of duck dynasty back in the day.

 

[KurtR]

https://gundogcentral.com/hunting-dogs-for-sale/english-setter/77396

This is the setter I was referring to.

Nice looking dog. That’s about all I can say I know nothing about setters other than I like watching them run.

 

[KurtR]

My wife originally wanted a standard poodle. I knew people hunted with them occasionally, but didn’t know they were still considered good hunting dogs. Honestly the only reason I knew people hunted them was from that dove hunting episode of duck dynasty back in the day.

This is where o got my lab from. They have standard poodles also. Good people small kennel.

Hunting Poodles - Cedar Valley Hunt Club

Standard Poodles have many characteristics that make them great hunting companions. We're excited to begin breeding more exceptional dogs!

www.cedarvalleyhuntclub.com

 

[jmez]

I wouldn't consider the setter to be a started dog. Basically a puppy that's been ran and shot over at a long distance.

Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk

 

[Tleek]

I wouldn't consider the setter to be a started dog. Basically a puppy that's been ran and shot over at a long distance.

Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk

$800 sounds like a good price either way.


I’m really wondering if I’m stressing too much about genetics and lineage. It’d be a pet first and pointer second. I’m sure any appropriate breed from a sporting breeder would work.

 

[Jason Snyder]

$800 sounds like a good price either way.


I’m really wondering if I’m stressing too much about genetics and lineage. It’d be a pet first and pointer second. I’m sure any appropriate breed from a sporting breeder would work.

You get what you pay for. I don’t know if $800 is in the ballpark for a good setter or not.

I don’t like to spend money just to spend it. In fact, I’m quite frugal. That said, I’ll gladly spend money on a good dog vs trying to save money. Life is too short to hunt over a crappy dog (not to say the setter is crappy, but I’m leery).

 

[johnnycake]

get the right one and train it they can be . The standard poodle was originally bred to be a hunting dog before the show ring got ahold of them

Yeah, as a retriever. But the poodle is not really an upland dog.

 

[KurtR]

Yeah, as a retriever. But the poodle is not really an upland dog.

If a dog can quarter and use its nose it will work good enough for most people. Beagles are not upland dogs but had to guide a group every year that wanted to hunt behind theirs. A lady brought her border collie and it found lots of pheants and grouse.

For the casual guy one of those poodles out of hunting lines would work

 

[2ski]

are poodles usually considered good upland dogs?

poodles are the base for pretty much every hunting versatile breed out there. As they were developed, a poodle was used in the foundation.

$800 sounds like a good price either way.


I’m really wondering if I’m stressing too much about genetics and lineage. It’d be a pet first and pointer second. I’m sure any appropriate breed from a sporting breeder would work.

Don't stress about lineage. You don't and won't know enough to understand the lineage. Unless you want to start staring at a bunch or pedigree.

First of all calm down and take a breath. I see 4 California chapters of NAVHDA. There should be one close to you. You have a ton of knowledge at those chapters. You can show up to a training day or test and watch a bunch of dogs work. Get more information there. Everyone will give you their opinion but as you gather more and more information you'll start to come up with your own thoughts. On breeds. On what you want. Etc.

I would plan on training your own dog. NAVHDA chapters won't train your dog but they'll help you and help you through the hiccups. And just so you know, you're also looking at bird costs to train with and a lot of other costs for your dog. Ecollar. Kennel. Leashes and check cords. Gas to get to the training days. You'll need to do some work on your won. But it will be a bonding experience for you and the dog.

I would go to training days and tests this summer and fall. Decide what breed is for you. Then start calling breeders. That's a interview for the breeder to decide to sell to you and it's for you to gather information on the breeder and decide if you like what they're doing. Talk to at least 10 breeders. You'll start to learn which know what they are doing. Which don't. There's a lot more breeders I wouldn't buy from than I would. For me I want a griffon with a smooth head. Tight and dense and harsh coat. Not shaggy. Long legged. And a personality that is goofy and friendly and I can see the intelligence in their eyes. I guarantee you alot of people on this thread have never seen a griff look like that. A ton of griff people think all griffs are shaggy mop headed dogs. I've seen pudelpointets from the same breeder that looked completely opposite. One shaggy one flatter and righter. And this was a "Bob Farris" guy. If I was getting a PP(pudelpointer) I'd want a short coat with a beard and a smooth head.

I know a PP breeder and NAVHDA judge in the San Diego area. I can message her if yiu have some questions. I would take this summer and fall to see a bunch of dogs and talk to a bunch if people. Decide what you want in a breed and a dog. And honestly decide if a hunting dog is the right thing for you. It sounds like cost is a big deal amd time with a young family. All of which can be overcome if your wife is supportive of your training time. A lot of training can be done in your backyard with training days every other weekend in the spring and summer. You honestly end up with a group of people that become your friends and you love spending time with as well.

Edit. Somehow I thought I saw you were in California but I went back and read your first lost and it doesn't say that. Let me know where you live and we can dive in on some stuff around you.

 

[2ski]

When people talk about a dogs genetics they aren't talking about getting so detailed they looked at genes. Though some are getting there. Say a certain color in a lab is RR, one is Rr and one is rr, they start looking at parents that detailed to get what they want.

The vast majority are just talking about traits you can see in their dogs. Coat. Color. Personality. Ask every breeder you talk to what they are breeding for. If it's ever "I think my dog is awesome and wanted to breed her" turn around and walk away. They aren't furthering the breed. If you see weights of parents outside the breed standard walk away. I called someone breeding griffs where the parents were 80 and 90 lbs. My dog is 59 lbs and 65 is the high end of standard. So don't fret over "genetics". Think of it more as the visible traits of the dog. But keeping mindful of structural components too. Bad traits that can be passed down. Aggressive dogs. Bad hips. Cherry eyes. Etc

 

[akmin555]

I have a Viszla, and I love pointers in general. Seeing lots of people recommend pointer breeds, however I do not think that they are an excellent choice for someone with allergy concerns.

 

[Tleek]

poodles are the base for pretty much every hunting versatile breed out there. As they were developed, a poodle was used in the foundation.



Don't stress about lineage. You don't and won't know enough to understand the lineage. Unless you want to start staring at a bunch or pedigree.

First of all calm down and take a breath. I see 4 California chapters of NAVHDA. There should be one close to you. You have a ton of knowledge at those chapters. You can show up to a training day or test and watch a bunch of dogs work. Get more information there. Everyone will give you their opinion but as you gather more and more information you'll start to come up with your own thoughts. On breeds. On what you want. Etc.

I would plan on training your own dog. NAVHDA chapters won't train your dog but they'll help you and help you through the hiccups. And just so you know, you're also looking at bird costs to train with and a lot of other costs for your dog. Ecollar. Kennel. Leashes and check cords. Gas to get to the training days. You'll need to do some work on your won. But it will be a bonding experience for you and the dog.

I would go to training days and tests this summer and fall. Decide what breed is for you. Then start calling breeders. That's a interview for the breeder to decide to sell to you and it's for you to gather information on the breeder and decide if you like what they're doing. Talk to at least 10 breeders. You'll start to learn which know what they are doing. Which don't. There's a lot more breeders I wouldn't buy from than I would. For me I want a griffon with a smooth head. Tight and dense and harsh coat. Not shaggy. Long legged. And a personality that is goofy and friendly and I can see the intelligence in their eyes. I guarantee you alot of people on this thread have never seen a griff look like that. A ton of griff people think all griffs are shaggy mop headed dogs. I've seen pudelpointets from the same breeder that looked completely opposite. One shaggy one flatter and righter. And this was a "Bob Farris" guy. If I was getting a PP(pudelpointer) I'd want a short coat with a beard and a smooth head.

I know a PP breeder and NAVHDA judge in the San Diego area. I can message her if yiu have some questions. I would take this summer and fall to see a bunch of dogs and talk to a bunch if people. Decide what you want in a breed and a dog. And honestly decide if a hunting dog is the right thing for you. It sounds like cost is a big deal amd time with a young family. All of which can be overcome if your wife is supportive of your training time. A lot of training can be done in your backyard with training days every other weekend in the spring and summer. You honestly end up with a group of people that become your friends and you love spending time with as well.

Edit. Somehow I thought I saw you were in California but I went back and read your first lost and it doesn't say that. Let me know where you live and we can dive in on some stuff around you.

I am in CA. Northern CA redwood region. It looks like NAVHDA has a Northern California branch centered in the Sacramento area.

It’s about a 6 hours or so but I might be able to make it happen.

I’m thinking the best time to get a dog would be early summer because I’m a teacher and I’ll have the most time to dedicate to it.

A new puppy in the fall would be hectic. Winter would also be doable, but I’m not in a huge rush.

I’m glad you recommend against focusing too hard on lineage. I read so much of that here and online it’s overwhelming.

Cost and time are definite considerations. I’m a teacher and I have a 2 and 4 year old. I stay busy.

Thanks for the great advice. I might shoot you a pm about that breeder.

 

[Jason Snyder]

however I do not think that they are an excellent choice for someone with allergy concerns.

Haha no hunting dog is.

 

[Jason Snyder]

A new puppy in the fall would be hectic. Winter would also be doable, but I’m not in a huge rush.

Dont get a fall puppy. House training a puppy in the winter sucks. Spring is the best time IMO because the dog is mature enough to hunt them a lot the first season and build a foundation.

You’ve gotten some good advice above. Read post 113 about 20 times. If you decide on a Drahthaar let me know and I can point you to some good breeders.

 

[2ski]

I am in CA. Northern CA redwood region. It looks like NAVHDA has a Northern California branch centered in the Sacramento area.

It’s about a 6 hours or so but I might be able to make it happen.

I’m thinking the best time to get a dog would be early summer because I’m a teacher and I’ll have the most time to dedicate to it.

A new puppy in the fall would be hectic. Winter would also be doable, but I’m not in a huge rush.

I’m glad you recommend against focusing too hard on lineage. I read so much of that here and online it’s overwhelming.

Cost and time are definite considerations. I’m a teacher and I have a 2 and 4 year old. I stay busy.

Thanks for the great advice. I might shoot you a pm about that breeder.

Take the family. Training days are a family affair. If you have a camper bring it and hangout overnight. It's not a hardcore "we just hunt". There may be puppies your kids can play with too. Good exposure for the puppies.

I would aim for a spring break puppy. Does your wife work? I mean of you go to work at 730 and get off at 4, of she can get home at lunch or you on your free period you can get a good crate training foundation and then summer is more time together.

Buy Joan Bailey's "how to help gun dogs train themselves" long before you get a dog. It will give you a good foundation. And some things to think about.

 

[jmez]

$800 sounds like a good price either way.


I’m really wondering if I’m stressing too much about genetics and lineage. It’d be a pet first and pointer second. I’m sure any appropriate breed from a sporting breeder would work.

It is a good price. I wouldn't get to hung up on price. Puppies are over priced, it has gotten ridiculous, along with all of the "puppy contracts" you have to sign.

 

[medvedyt]

its costing me 3500 to send my puppy to a trainer for 6 weeks and i thought that was pretty cheap. when i get her back she should be considered a started dog. 1800 for puppy + 3500 for training ill be into her for 5300 before vet visits and food before she is a year old.

Some would say she is already started as she points, and ive shot over her but thats not started to me.

that is great but as dog are not robots she may or might be good with the trainer and not that good with the handler ...