Can you learn correct Grip from Paper tune?

[vcb]

So I'm shooting a "perfect" spine according to the software. When I set center shot I get a left tear with bare shaft at 10'. So I started moving the rest to the right to correct the tear but then my center shot was way off to the right....I then thought about hand torque. I set center shot back and experimented with torquing the bow left then right. I could produce a hard left tear and then with torquing the opposite direction could produce a right tear....So should I just keep center shot in the middle and experiment with hand positions to get a bullet hole????? Does this mean I can learn the correct grip for my bow (bowtech cpxl) by paper results with a bare shaft? Thanks in advance.

 

[Jeff Martin]

10' is very close IMO - regardless of what you read. The arrow flexes coming out of the bow and often not recovered in this short of time. Back up to 10 yards, letus know if you are still getting the bad tear.

BTW, Dont always believe what you read on spine. You can still be over/under spined. Have you cranked the poundage up and down a full turn?

I would try backing up - see results
play with poundage to see results. I am not saying you need to change poundage but a very good way so see how the spine is behaving.

 

[Scottiem]

I think you can. About a year and half ago I built a mechanical shooter (poor man hooter shooter). I found that my bow would shoot bullet holes off the shooter right at center shot, but when I shot I got a tear. I started playing with my grip and found the perfect position in the hand that would give me bullet holes. Since then I find tuning my bows or friends bows, I can always get great results at center shot. Getting a better grip also helped with my groups at long range.

 

[justin davis]

I don't care about bullet holes. I only care if my bow shoots broadhead/field points the same

 

[squeekieslayer]

Paper tuning at 10 yards only proves one thing.... that your fletching is working.

If your bow is not shooting properly and you torque the bow to make it shoot better how do you know what the problem is? Yes, your bow may be perfect and your grip is wrong.... but how do you know your bow isn't off and you are compensating by inducing torque. Plus... if you have to do something unnatural to shoot your bow there is a decent chance that you will mess that up with a 350 inch bull at 40 yards in the heat of the moment.

Who care what a chart says and a measured center shot is only a starting point. Play with your set up until you can get your bow in tune with your natural comfortable shooting g form that you can repeat every time.

Joe

 

[OR Archer]

Yes you can. Shooting through paper will tell you just as much about how you are holding the bow as it will about how the arrow is coming out of the bow. Every bow is a little different on how much and where the pressure needs to be on the grip. A good example of this is Levi Morgan. If you look at his grip while shooting Mathews versus his Elite you can see he has changed his grip location for the new bows. Another thing to look at when shooting through paper is how hard you are pulling into the back wall. This will also affect your tears through paper.

 

[ontarget7]

To answer you question. The most forgiveness out of your setup, the best results to a perfect grip, form and tune are from bareshaft tuning at 10 and 20 yards.
This will show you exactly what is going on.

 

[jmez]

You could learn this way but if you have a grip torque issue IMO you would be better off to pay for a couple of shooting lessons. You will learn much quicker and correctly with a lesson.

You get your bow where it will shoot bare shafts you don't need to worry about broadhead tuning.

 

[vcb]

Thanks guys. It's interesting how very small grip changes will produce different arrow flight initially. I like bare shaft tuning because if I can get it close here then walk back and broadhead are usually pretty quick. I also like that it shows form flaws. OR, can you talk about how backtension...hard into the wall vs. index release, light into the wall would produce different tears......Thanks

 

[ontarget7]

Thanks guys. It's interesting how very small grip changes will produce different arrow flight initially. I like bare shaft tuning because if I can get it close here then walk back and broadhead are usually pretty quick. I also like that it shows form flaws. OR, can you talk about how backtension...hard into the wall vs. index release, light into the wall would produce different tears......Thanks

After your bareshafts are perfect, you should not have to walk back or broadhead tune. Usually if there is a difference after bareshafts are perfect you are more than likely borderline on spine.
There is actually a lot that goes on in the tuning process and it takes quite awhile to be efficient at it. There is no better way to go about it than from seeing the cause in affect from the adjustments you make, just like you are doing. Myself, I seldom ever shoot through paper anymore. I make all my adjustments with bareshaft results at 10, then 20 yards. Paper can be misleading if your grip and form are not right. What happens, you make adjustments trying to correct it then you find yourself more out of tune than you were before sometimes. When shooting paper and if you choose to go that route, just don't shoot paper at one distance and call it good. You will need to do it at multiple distance to put you closer to where you need to be.

 

[ontarget7]

Yes you can. Shooting through paper will tell you just as much about how you are holding the bow as it will about how the arrow is coming out of the bow. Every bow is a little different on how much and where the pressure needs to be on the grip. A good example of this is Levi Morgan. If you look at his grip while shooting Mathews versus his Elite you can see he has changed his grip location for the new bows. Another thing to look at when shooting through paper is how hard you are pulling into the back wall. This will also affect your tears through paper.

You must have seen my thread on AT on this very topic

 

[ontarget7]

Here is that thread on grip pressure. It is quite lengthy with lots of good info. You will have to weed through the good and the bad as usual on a open forum.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2121147

 

[vcb]

Shane thanks for the link. This is the exact topic that I stumbled into when experimenting with bare shafts

 

[vcb]

Does anybody use a rear sight ( pro master rear line sight/ square up torque indicator) these might be a good trainer when trying to find a no torque hand position?

 

[ontarget7]

Does anybody use a rear sight ( pro master rear line sight/ square up torque indicator) these might be a good trainer when trying to find a no torque hand position?

Some bow manufactures are slightly different and I feel it is more prominent to certain cam systems. Honestly your bareshafts will dictate where you need to be.

 

[60x]

After running several bow shops,working with countless hunters,shooting target archery including titles in multible state and sectional shoots my best possible advice to the average shooter is to THROW THE PAPER IN THE TRASH! It is worthless to the majority.. To shoot paper one must have extremely good form.. That means no hammering the trigger,same qrip every time, no torque, proper stance and drawlength...ect..ect.. Read and reread the posts from nuts and bolts and ontarget7, these boy speak volumes...... Me I bareshaft tune...period.. Just my opinion of course so take it for what you paid for it..

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

I paper tune and I am far from perfect anything. In my experience with enough practice you'll feel when you've done something wrong and the paper will indicate that error. The target can affect to much, in my opinion, to make bare shaft tuning any value to me. I think paper tuning can act as a coach on grip but there are a huge amount of other variables to take into consideration as well and anyone of the could cause the error on paper in addition to grip error. I am no expert but this is my experience.

 

[OR Archer]

After running several bow shops,working with countless hunters,shooting target archery including titles in multible state and sectional shoots my best possible advice to the average shooter is to THROW THE PAPER IN THE TRASH! It is worthless to the majority.. To shoot paper one must have extremely good form.. That means no hammering the trigger,same qrip every time, no torque, proper stance and drawlength...ect..ect.. Read and reread the posts from nuts and bolts and ontarget7, these boy speak volumes...... Me I bareshaft tune...period.. Just my opinion of course so take it for what you paid for it..

I totally understand your position but I would disagree on not shooting through paper . Having the average guy who walks through the door shoot through paper a lot of times is very frustrating. Been there done that!! Haha

Used properly though its a great teaching tool even for the average shooter. Its instant feedback on any change you make with your form or with the bow. It isn't the end all be all of tuning though but a very good starting point.

 

[OR Archer]

You must have seen my thread on AT on this very topic

No I didn't. I don't spend much time on there. Thanks for the link though. The pics illustrate the point perfectly.

 

[OR Archer]

Thanks guys. It's interesting how very small grip changes will produce different arrow flight initially. I like bare shaft tuning because if I can get it close here then walk back and broadhead are usually pretty quick. I also like that it shows form flaws. OR, can you talk about how backtension...hard into the wall vs. index release, light into the wall would produce different tears......Thanks

Not sure I'm understanding your question correctly here. Are you asking how an index release affects the tear through paper when pulling hard into the wall versus soft into the wall?