Can my son use my suppressor?

[Reburn]

With in your sight is the legal standard.

Minors can not be put on a trust.

You are correct. Nobody can be put on the trust that couldnt otherwise legally buy a can themselves. So no minors.

Within sight of your son you will be fine.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Have an antelope hunt with my 13 year old in Wyoming this fall. He’s hunting, I’m not.

I get conflicting reports on whether or not he is able to use a suppressor that I have registered in a trust.

The hang up is he’s under 18.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks


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He can use it with you as long as he is not breaking any wildlife codes while using it.

 

[Robobiss]

I suppose that statement somewhat lends itself to their increasing popularity. A decade or two ago, I'd wager that any traffic stop/ encounter with a game warden would have loaned itself to at least some level of inconvenience and scrutiny. Nowadays, I think they're prevalent enough that few wardens would even give it a second thought. Not saying that a guy couldn't get himself in a little hot water by not having the appropriate paperwork, but I wouldn't think it likely. I myself have pictures of the required documents on my phone...somewhere. If someone asked for them while I was afield, it would absolutely be quicker to take them back to the house and show them the hard copies. LOL

Assuming you have the electronic approved form 4?

Make a note on your iPhone (or whatever) notes with all of your NFA items, their make, model, serial number. And save the PDF that you got from the ATF that *is* your tax stamp in the note under each description.

It takes 5 minutes to put the document together and (at least with iPhone) you will keep it when you get a new phone. Keeps everything all in one place and easier to find.

 

[Baddog]

Who can ask to see the stamp? I’ve been told only a atf agent but not sure if it’s accurate?

 

[wyosam]

Who can ask to see the stamp? I’ve been told only a atf agent but not sure if it’s accurate?

I had seen that as well, but I believe it is any law enforcement. I think chances of a local asking for it are pretty low in most places. At least in the places I’ve lived, LE tends to be pretty pro 2nd amendment. I might depend a bit on what you look like for better or for worse. Probably a lot more likely to ask if they are looking for “something”.


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[Yukon Cornelius]

I heard at the gun counter…


In all seriousness, if you are present he can use it, and so can anyone else.

If you aren’t present, no.

 

[MOLC09]

I understand just like was said above. I don't know if he's on the trust if he can legally obtain it either being under age, I would hope so since he can have the rifle but you never know with our stupid government.

 

[Matt5266]

Do not make phone calls and ask questions. This only draws attention. If it is your supressor and you and with him while he is in possession of it you are good to go. Good luck and enjoy!

 

[Bluefish]

Who can ask to see the stamp? I’ve been told only a atf agent but not sure if it’s accurate?

I believe this to be legally correct as it’s a tax issue, ie have you paid your tax on said item. In reality do you want to argue with someone who can make your life difficult? A range peon, sure, but a Leo or game warden? I won’t argue the point, just pull up my stamps on my phone and be done with it. I expect as they become more common, no one will ask.

 

[wesfromky]

I believe this to be legally correct as it’s a tax issue, ie have you paid your tax on said item. In reality do you want to argue with someone who can make your life difficult? A range peon, sure, but a Leo or game warden? I won’t argue the point, just pull up my stamps on my phone and be done with it. I expect as they become more common, no one will ask.

My understanding is that many state laws allow the possession of NFA items only if you have a valid stamp. So, local LEO can ask for the stamp to check that you are following state laws.

And, not to be too paranoid, but I am not sure how I would feel about handing over my unlocked phone to anyone, much less law enforcement. So I print out and keep copies of my stamps in my range bag and truck.

 

[Robobiss]

My understanding is that many state laws allow the possession of NFA items only if you have a valid stamp. So, local LEO can ask for the stamp to check that you are following state laws.

And, not to be too paranoid, but I am not sure how I would feel about handing over my unlocked phone to anyone, much less law enforcement. So I print out and keep copies of my stamps in my range bag and truck.

Just saying, that sounds an awful lot like “stop and frisk” (which is not legal in a lot of states) to me. Law enforcement should never bother you while you are in the middle of a legal act and “ask for your papers” aside from game wardens asking to see a hunting/fishing license because they somehow have the right to do so.

Just like how they can’t just pull you over because they feel like it. They are not supposed to inconvenience your day or bother you unless they observe you doing something illegal or have reasonable suspicion that you have. Even if you are stopped for speeding, the rifle with suppressor in the back seat is none of their business and they are not entitled to see any proof that it is legal. If they ask to see papers, you can tell them to pound sand. If they push the issue and conduct an illegal search of your property, you can retire early.

If you are doing something that is legal, the assumption from LE should be that you are allowed to do so. They should not bother you unless they observe you breaking the law or have reasonable suspicion that you are breaking the law. Seeing a suppressor, or an SBR, if possession and use is legal in that state, should not prompt LE to ask for proof that you are doing it legally. The assumption should always be that you are in legal possession. They are on a power trip and operating outside of their job description if they are doing that.

Source: one of my best friends is our local ATF agent and has coached me to handle such situations exactly as I described.

 

[wesfromky]

Just saying, that sounds an awful lot like “stop and frisk” (which is not legal in a lot of states) to me. Law enforcement should never bother you while you are in the middle of a legal act and “ask for your papers” aside from game wardens asking to see a hunting/fishing license because they somehow have the right to do so.

Just like how they can’t just pull you over because they feel like it. They are not supposed to inconvenience your day or bother you unless they observe you doing something illegal or have reasonable suspicion that you have. Even if you are stopped for speeding, the rifle with suppressor in the back seat is none of their business and they are not entitled to see any proof that it is legal. If they ask to see papers, you can tell them to pound sand. If they push the issue and conduct an illegal search of your property, you can retire early.

If you are doing something that is legal, the assumption from LE should be that you are allowed to do so. They should not bother you unless they observe you breaking the law or have reasonable suspicion that you are breaking the law. Seeing a suppressor, or an SBR, if possession and use is legal in that state, should not prompt LE to ask for proof that you are doing it legally. The assumption should always be that you are in legal possession. They are on a power trip and operating outside of their job description if they are doing that.

Source: one of my best friends is our local ATF agent and has coached me to handle such situations exactly as I described.

The words "should" and "supposed" are doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Case in point - I went through a "traffic safety" checkpoint once, KY state trooper asked to search my SUV, and I declined. After 5-10 minutes of back and forth about my rights and the 4th amendment, including threats to bring in the drug dogs, he literately called me a bad citizen before letting me go on my way.

So, no way am I handing my unlocked phone to anyone from the gov. Especially with how common phone imaging devices are now.

I don't mind showing the stamps if asked, but only on paper. Because in KY NFA items are only legal if the are registered with the federal gov.

 

[Robobiss]

The words "should" and "supposed" are doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Case in point - I went through a "traffic safety" checkpoint once, KY state trooper asked to search my SUV, and I declined. After 5-10 minutes of back and forth about my rights and the 4th amendment, including threats to bring in the drug dogs, he literately called me a bad citizen before letting me go on my way.

So, no way am I handing my unlocked phone to anyone from the gov. Especially with how common phone imaging devices are now.

I don't mind showing the stamps if asked, but only on paper. Because in KY NFA items are only legal if the are registered with the federal gov.

Right, like most (all?) states they are only legal if registered with the Feds. That is a good point about the phone though, maybe I will print mine also.

My point is that they have no right to even ask for them since possession of an item that is legal to own (doesn’t matter how many loopholes you have to jump through to own it) does not prompt an investigation and/or give them the right to search/seize. Possession of an item that is legal to possess is not probable cause to search.

The immediate response from LE should be to treat it as if you are possessing them legally because going about it any other way is shitty law enforcement, and/or illegal and opens them up to litigation.

I have never been questioned, every interaction with LE with NFA items like silencers has been like “ahhh shit man, that thing is sweet, how do you like that model? I have the ____, and the _____ but I want another .30 cal can”

 

[fwafwow]

Some good and bad advice in this thread. No way to tell if this is more of the former or the latter. Way beyond the OP, but for the "and anyone else can use your can if in your presence" supervision, etc., there might be an exception for prohibited persons - almost certainly with regard to possession, but maybe even for use. And as for the ATF's ability to ask for your papers, the ATF definitely thinks so. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-possessor-nfa-firearm-have-show-proof-registration

 

[Bluefish]

Some good and bad advice in this thread. No way to tell if this is more of the former or the latter. Way beyond the OP, but for the "and anyone else can use your can if in your presence" supervision, etc., there might be an exception for prohibited persons - almost certainly with regard to possession, but maybe even for use. And as for the ATF's ability to ask for your papers, the ATF definitely thinks so. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-possessor-nfa-firearm-have-show-proof-registration

I don’t think anyone said an atf agent can’t ask for your stamp paperwork. It’s more that they are the only ones who can legally. Real world, is that a hill to die on? For me nope. But then again I have never been asked by anyone to see my stamps.

 

[fwafwow]

I don’t think anyone said an atf agent can’t ask for your stamp paperwork. It’s more that they are the only ones who can legally. Real world, is that a hill to die on? For me nope. But then again I have never been asked by anyone to see my stamps.

Maybe I misunderstood some of the above “LE” references too broadly (to include ATF). I do think the ability of state LE to ask may vary by state law. I too have never been asked, but I keep my paper copies in any bag with an item, plus a backup in my car and on my phone. Good point that I’d not want to hand over my phone to someone unless it was a last resort.

 

[marc357]

Some folks seem to overcomplicate this, but I view it pretty simply.

1: Anyone can use your suppressor if you're present, and for your boy to legally hunt big game in WY at his age you must be present anyway.

2: All you need to do is keep a copy of your Form 4/ Trust/ whatever with you. You have to have your hunting license (and proof of Hunter's Safety, and written permission from landowner if applicable) with you anyway- just keep your Suppressor docs with them.

3: No one has ever asked to see my suppressor paperwork, but I would provide it (within reason) if requested.

Go hunt and enjoy!

 

[Ucsdryder]

According to local rokslide expert the only answer is to tell LE to kick rocks if they ask to see your paperwork, especially if your kid is present. It shows them how to stick it to the man!