Call insurance or no?

[YellCoAR]

The key is sudden and accidental. This does not sound like the case here. I am also on the side of lack of proper water proofing.

 

[seww]

I can give y'all an update: the claims adjuster called me and since we discovered this damage a while ago, on 9/17 is when the wife noticed it, and never reported it back the, they denied the claim completely.

So we're on our own now. Meh whatever, will be changing insurance company after this, but now I need to figure out if there's damage behind the tile and what to do next.

 

[SDHNTR]

I had a similar issue a few years back. Toilet upstairs leaked and ruined about 1/2 sheet of drywall in kitchen ceiling below. Called insurance and asked how much my premiums would increase for a $5k, $10k claim, and a $25k claim to get an idea of what I was looking at. Then called a flood remediation company, Servpro iirc, and got their quote. In the end, I determined it wasn’t worth it. Fixed the toilet. Rented heaters and fans. Mixed up bleach in a garden pump sprayer. Put a respirator on and got up in the crawl space and went to town. Replaced and patched the drywall, sprayed texture and repainted. In the end it cost me $500 and a weekend.

 

[seww]

I had a similar issue a few years back. Toilet upstairs leaked and ruined about 1/2 sheet of drywall in kitchen ceiling below. Called insurance and asked how much my premiums would increase for a $5k, $10k claim, and a $25k claim to get an idea of what I was looking at. Then called a flood remediation company, Servpro iirc, and got their quote. In the end, I determined it wasn’t worth it. Fixed the toilet. Rented heaters and fans. Mixed up bleach in a garden pump sprayer. Put a respirator on and got up in the crawl space and went to town. Replaced and patched the drywall, sprayed texture and repainted. In the end it cost me $500 and a weekend.

That's crazy!
We found a good contractor my neighbor has dealt with a lot and who can help, but the demolition we can handle. I don't have an issue tearing shit down but building it back up

Gonna see if I can turn off the water somehow for the shower and start slowly to tear the tile down to inspect the damage behind. We don't care for it anyway, but such a waste on a new-ish bathroom...

 

[seww]

It could be a leaking pipe in the wall, but my prediction is the moisture is coming from improper water proofing behind the tile or an improper shower pan. Moisture in any tile job wicks between tiles and into the mortar holding the tile. With gravity moisture slowly flows downhill and normally out the gap between tub and lowest tile, or into the pan if it’s a shower without tub.

Homeowners and crappy tile installers love to caulk the lowest tile to the tub, moisture builds up in the mortar and has to go somewhere so it often goes over the tub flange and drops behind the tub (properly waterproofed walls overlap the tub flange, but are not sealed to the tub).

DIY shower pans are improperly done more often than not - Red Guard liquid membrane should be out of business by now - it’s caused more leaky showers than any other product and anyone who uses it is asking for trouble. In the tile setting community only blow and go guys use it. It’s cheap, but $150/gal good quality liquid membrane is much cheaper than water damage and replacing a shower. Few DIY plumbers know how to seal and use a proper shower drain.

As a short term fix I suggest clients thoroughly clean all grout, rub color match caulk made for tile into any hairline cracks, and reseal it with an acrylic tile sealer (or concrete sealer - same thing). This thicker sealer closes cracks better than no build fancy 50 year sealer and keeps most of the moisture from getting behind the tile, but it’s only a temporary solution.

When showing up for an initial visit, one crooked tile contractor purposefully caulks the gap between tub and bottom row on old tile installs that leak telling them maybe that will fix it. He knows that only makes it worse, but clients feel like he is willing to do more than other guys and hire him to replace the tile.

Inexpensive tile installers, even some expensive ones, do a poor job of waterproofing. Cheap jobs will leak within a few years, like you discovered, and many expensive ones only last 10 years.

I needed to quote you here, I just took a closer look where I can see behind the tile and I do see something green that I'd assume is a membrane or sealant between the tile and hopefully, backer board.

With that said, I wonder if the tile is secure with a proper membrane and backer behind it, and if the water has gotten under the floor mat from splashes (we have a 7-yr old...) and ran under the mat to the corner and never dried properly = mold and some rot.
That if it was leaking from the shower pipe for almost 3 years, we'd see a lot more damaged than barely a 4" sized corner.

We're gonna remove the trim by the tub and see if I can cut a piece open in the floor plywood and maybe see more. Also gonna go down below in the basement and see if I can see anything there and maybe turn off the water if needed.

 

[deltadukman]

The mold/water remediation companies are crazy high. Those bills can sometimes exceed the actual damage. You can rent the machines for a fraction of the cost they charge.

"Meh whatever, will be changing insurance company after this"

Why? It wasn't a 100% cut and dry covered claim to begin with. As far as the damage being discovered on 9-17 and reported yesterday 10-24, I can see the insurance companies point. You have an obligation to report damage immediately and do what you can to stop it from getting worse. That is in the policy language. If you found it on 9-17 and reported it the next business day, or even within the week, cool. Over a month and any possibility of getting leniency for a questionable claim is out the window.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I needed to quote you here, I just took a closer look where I can see behind the tile and I do see something green that I'd assume is a membrane or sealant between the tile and hopefully, backer board.

With that said, I wonder if the tile is secure with a proper membrane and backer behind it, and if the water has gotten under the floor mat from splashes (we have a 7-yr old...) and ran under the mat to the corner and never dried properly = mold and some rot.
That if it was leaking from the shower pipe for almost 3 years, we'd see a lot more damaged than barely a 4" sized corner.

We're gonna remove the trim by the tub and see if I can cut a piece open in the floor plywood and maybe see more. Also gonna go down below in the basement and see if I can see anything there and maybe turn off the water if needed.

We just paid $11k for a new stand up shower and bathroom "remodel" because we found a hole in the floor in the tub corner of the kids' bathroom and ASSumed it was leaking behind the wall. Long story short, there were no leaks... tub had just had enough spillage over the years to rot the floor out and we didn't notice til the linoleum lifted up in the corner to reveal it.

I asked the remodel guys what they do for mold, he said unless it's impregnated heavily into the structure they cut out heavy moldy portions to replace and then spray it all with bleach and be sure there's no leaks and seal it back up.

As for the insurance, floor rot is a slow thing and almost automatically negates the "sudden" and/or "accidental" verbiage. That's almost always going to fall under homeowner maintenance. It's always good to shop around your insurance anyway though, so if this is the motivator so be it.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

Last time I filed a HO claim for hail damage, had holes in the ridge cap, they raised my premium and my deductible...greedy bastards....

 

[seww]

The mold/water remediation companies are crazy high. Those bills can sometimes exceed the actual damage. You can rent the machines for a fraction of the cost they charge.

"Meh whatever, will be changing insurance company after this"

Why? It wasn't a 100% cut and dry covered claim to begin with. As far as the damage being discovered on 9-17 and reported yesterday 10-24, I can see the insurance companies point. You have an obligation to report damage immediately and do what you can to stop it from getting worse. That is in the policy language. If you found it on 9-17 and reported it the next business day, or even within the week, cool. Over a month and any possibility of getting leniency for a questionable claim is out the window.

I do agree with you, I understand their policy, still makes me mad

 

[seww]

We just paid $11k for a new stand up shower and bathroom "remodel" because we found a hole in the floor in the tub corner of the kids' bathroom and ASSumed it was leaking behind the wall. Long story short, there were no leaks... tub had just had enough spillage over the years to rot the floor out and we didn't notice til the linoleum lifted up in the corner to reveal it.

I asked the remodel guys what they do for mold, he said unless it's impregnated heavily into the structure they cut out heavy moldy portions to replace and then spray it all with bleach and be sure there's no leaks and seal it back up.

As for the insurance, floor rot is a slow thing and almost automatically negates the "sudden" and/or "accidental" verbiage. That's almost always going to fall under homeowner maintenance. It's always good to shop around your insurance anyway though, so if this is the motivator so be it.

This sounds exactly what we're looking at here. If the water was leaking for 2,5 years behind the wall, with a shower or bath almost every day, we would see a lot more mold than this little corner. And as far as I know, a backboard made of concrete or whatever, doesn't mold. My guess is that it's not that bad, replace the floor board and put in a better, watertight floor and we should be fine until we save up and re-do the bathroom.

Alternatively we ask a contractor to install an insert above the tile to minimize any further damage until we save up for the re-modeling.

 

[seww]

Last time I filed a HO claim for hail damage, had holes in the ridge cap, they raised my premium and my deductible...greedy bastards....

Yeah that's terrible.

A friend told me that in Florida the companies aren't too keen on insuring houses that are paid off or the premiums are so high the owners doesn't want it.
Then a hurricane comes by...

 

[TaperPin]

I needed to quote you here, I just took a closer look where I can see behind the tile and I do see something green that I'd assume is a membrane or sealant between the tile and hopefully, backer board.

With that said, I wonder if the tile is secure with a proper membrane and backer behind it, and if the water has gotten under the floor mat from splashes (we have a 7-yr old...) and ran under the mat to the corner and never dried properly = mold and some rot.
That if it was leaking from the shower pipe for almost 3 years, we'd see a lot more damaged than barely a 4" sized corner.

We're gonna remove the trim by the tub and see if I can cut a piece open in the floor plywood and maybe see more. Also gonna go down below in the basement and see if I can see anything there and maybe turn off the water if needed.

If it’s a tub it very well may be just splashing water. If you use it normally and put a fan on it to dry up any splashes I bet you’ll eventually be able to determine what’s causing it.

 

[DenverCountryBoy]

Cut the caulk out of the tub flange weep holes.

 

[seww]

If it’s a tub it very well may be just splashing water. If you use it normally and put a fan on it to dry up any splashes I bet you’ll eventually be able to determine what’s causing it.

I'm almost certain it is. On my way to investigate a bit now.

 

[seww]

Cut the caulk out of the tub flange weep holes.

Where are they located?

 

[DenverCountryBoy]

Where are they located?

Between the top edge of the tub and the bottom edge of the tile. Look like crescents or dents in the tub flange.

 

[YellCoAR]

I hate to be the barrier of possible bad news, but you will likely be shopping for a new policy with a loss on your clue report.

 

[seww]

I hate to be the barrier of possible bad news, but you will likely be shopping for a new policy with a loss on your clue report.

I'm not aware of what a "clue report" is.

I think the damage is a lot less than first expected. It seems as it's only a small part of the corner that's affected, I think we can just replace the plywood, confirm no damage under the tub, and put in a new waterproof floor and be good to go.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I hate to be the barrier of possible bad news, but you will likely be shopping for a new policy with a loss on your clue report.

You're saying that shows up in CLUE even if insurance didn't pay out?

 

[Crusader]

I'm not aware of what a "clue report" is.

I think the damage is a lot less than first expected. It seems as it's only a small part of the corner that's affected, I think we can just replace the plywood, confirm no damage under the tub, and put in a new waterproof floor and be good to go.

You mean, you don't have a clue on that?