California 2020 Regs out

[Marble]

I see it as the same arguement when offices have a vote on seniority or rotation sign up for shifts. Young guys want it changed, old guys dont. Some younger guys realized the benefits of paying their dues with seniority early and went that way. Some senior guys think rotation is fair. I like being rewarded for patience and dedication.

 

[MattB]

Not deer related, but the Bighorn Sheep tag quota is increasing again. There is a one tag quota for the Old Dad/Kelso zone this year. The area was hard hit by disease a few years ago, but the population is slowly recovering.

Quick props to CA Wild Sheep Foundation for all the good work they have done to expand sheep-hunting opportunity in CA.

 

[Azone]

The last thing I would want is for CA to change their MAX point draw rules. Its is the fairest of all. Some of us have been waiting in line for nearly 20 years, and we are now at the front. Changing the rules would screw all of us who have been waiting.

It's just like anything else. Wait your turn. Only better, because there is always a chance you could draw.

I have not been drawn for any good hunts, ever. But my daughter has as a junior. I have had friends draw, some with max points, some without. But all are predictable and fair.

I should be max points on elk, but fish and game claims my application was never received one time years ago. Whether they fumbled the ball or the post office did will always remain a mystery to me. Sheep I couldn't apply for till I was 16 and I had no desire to shoot a pronghorn till 11 years ago. Drew A24 in highschool one year then a X9A tag when I was 20 or else I would have been max on deer points as well. When 75 percent of elk tags and 90 percent of premium deer tags go in the drawing for only those with max points it puts the vast majority of new hunters at a disadvantage for opportunity. Like I stated in my post you quoted, I wasn't trying to knock the max point guys and shame them, hell I should be max points in a couple categories if I had my way. But being a father of three kids that I want to bring up hunting, it's just gonna suck having to explain to them that they only have a chance at one tag maybe two if the quota allows it for said hunt. And yes everyone, I'm well aware that life is very unfair. Just throwing my two cents out there.

 

[Marble]

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I should be max points on elk, but fish and game claims my application was never received one time years ago. Whether they fumbled the ball or the post office did will always remain a mystery to me. Sheep I couldn't apply for till I was 16 and I had no desire to shoot a pronghorn till 11 years ago. Drew A24 in highschool one year then a X9A tag when I was 20 or else I would have been max on deer points as well. When 75 percent of elk tags and 90 percent of premium deer tags go in the drawing for only those with max points it puts the vast majority of new hunters at a disadvantage for opportunity. Like I stated in my post you quoted, I wasn't trying to knock the max point guys and shame them, hell I should be max points in a couple categories if I had my way. But being a father of three kids that I want to bring up hunting, it's just gonna suck having to explain to them that they only have a chance at one tag maybe two if the quota allows it for said hunt. And yes everyone, I'm well aware that life is very unfair. Just throwing my two cents out there.

No feelings hurt here man!! I have 3 that hunt. One turns 16 in august so it's really crappy about the junior rule.

I get what your saying. I actually forgot to do elk 1 year and so I'm in the same boat. Lucky for me, the max pint holders that have been applying the hunt I want seem to be almost gone. I'm just going to do a PP for elk since I'm headed to Idaho.

There is no perfect system.

I wish CA put as much effort into raising deer herds as they do other things. I can tell you from first hand expereince the spreading of people into the more rural areas when prop 215 passed in 1995 has had a direct affect on deer populations. The growers that live there year round are constantly killing deer. And there are really no resources thrown at it to make it cease.

 

[Huntindog45]

there is no way anyone who was not around in the first couple years could ever possibly compete in the max point catagory for elk sheep and antelope. ever. the system has to change.

 

[Middleofnowhere]

Quick props to CA Wild Sheep Foundation for all the good work they have done to expand sheep-hunting opportunity in CA.

Yeah, if it weren’t for groups like CAWSF, we would have half the sheep that we do in the state.

 

[Takem]

I spoke with CA fish and game yesterday regarding the JR age. You must be under 16 by closing date. They said that the provision was changed 5 years ago to increase the Junior age to under 18. This was done on a trial basis with a sunset of this year. She indicated that there is a bill in the legislature that would have extended the JR age to under 18 for another 5 years but the bill has failed to pass twice. I have no idea why it would not pass. I was pretty upset with their agency.
She could not tell me why they had not sent out a notice during last years draw that this bill was going to expire this year unless renewed so all of us with kids who are turning 16 this year could plan better or so that we could write to our elected officials.
My daughter who has been putting in for the draw since she was 12, and has not drawn, now has to pay an adult license fee and has to compete against thousands of other adults for tags in non-junior draw hunts. Seems fair to me......(sarcasm).
I asked the fish and game if the bill to extend by 5 years got passed prior to the draw would they change the rules back for this year and she said no. Once the rules are released they are permanent for the hunting year.
I'll be working on finding the bill language and writing my legislators to encourage them to pass legislation to permanently change the age to under 18.
California Fish and Game I really appreciate you being open and honest about what your agency is doing.....not! You need to try harder. I stay very much informed on hunting issues in the state and feel blindsided. My daughter started hunting after the age was increased to under 18 so how would I know that this legislation was going change back without adequate notice from the agency, who by the way, continues to collect our fees while giving us barely anything in return.
Does anyone know if other states have rules that treat Juniors as adults when they are anything other than over 17 years of age?

That sucks for you and her. Please forward the language you find so I can send an email as well.

 

[work765]

From every draw hunt Me or close friends have ever participated in the numbers they report cannot be true. I hunted x9a last year and hunted it very hard to shoot the first legal buck I saw on the 13th day. There is absolutely no way that unit could have had a 62% success. Previous to that I hunted an archery draw where I shot a nice 4x4 and saw several others taken and the state reported 0% bucks 4 point or better being taken. X6b has been posting great success rates the last few years and I’ve had friends hunting it every year with very low success as well


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I’m contemplating putting in for X9A this year. I’m at five points. But now you’re making me second guess the unit. I don’t want to burn 5 points on a forkie.


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[jfs82]

there is no way anyone who was not around in the first couple years could ever possibly compete in the max point catagory for elk sheep and antelope. ever. the system has to change.

I started hunting late in life, I've decided that I won't bother ever even trying to sheep here because of that, I'm pretty likely to just try to draw spike/antlerless elk too forever.

 

[cmahoney]

I started hunting late in life, I've decided that I won't bother ever even trying to sheep here because of that, I'm pretty likely to just try to draw spike/antlerless elk too forever.

For 14 bucks you might as well apply, someone draws the random tags.


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[cmahoney]

there is no way anyone who was not around in the first couple years could ever possibly compete in the max point catagory for elk sheep and antelope. ever. the system has to change.

For sheep it’s the first year. I’m looking at the magazine right now. Zone 10 gave out 5 tags to max point holders last year and there were 593 max point applicants. How many years will it take to get through them? Anyone who says that system is fair just doesn’t understand it.


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[MattB]

there is no way anyone who was not around in the first couple years could ever possibly compete in the max point catagory for elk sheep and antelope. ever. the system has to change.

Or you could put in for hunts that have random tags.

 

[Soj51hopeful]

Even if the system were changed to something more favorable for less than max point holders (me included) there just aren’t enough tags to go around. Everyone would just be bitching about not drawing even if they had equal chances.

 

[Huntindog45]

Or you could put in for hunts that have random tags.

i know there are a couple random draw tags for every hunt but the odds o getting one of those are so damn small they are near impossible. they either need to put a cap on the number of maximum points a hunter can have so new hunters have a chance of someday competing for those tags or change everything. Since they largely modeled the point system after colorado my opinion is they need to treat our elk, sheep and antelope tags the way colorado treats moose goat and sheep with a weighted point system. These are tags that are so few in number new hunters will never in their lifeitme be able to compete for the tags with a pure point system like we have right now.

 

[Pro953]

For non deer species I do not really think it matters, the number of Hunt is so low I do not really think it would change much. For instance, one of the general methods buck Antelope or Grizzly island bull rag, Do you really think the difference between 1 in 3,000 and 5 in 3,000 odds are significant enough to move the needle either way. Yes it’s statistically better odds but still pretty much a lotto ticket either way.


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[Azone]

For non deer species I do not really think it matters, the number of Hunt is so low I do not really think it would change much. For instance, one of the general methods buck Antelope or Grizzly island bull rag, Do you really think the difference between 1 in 3,000 and 5 in 3,000 odds are significant enough to move the needle either way. Yes it’s statistically better odds but still pretty much a lotto ticket either way.


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1 out of 600 is better than 1 out of 3000. I would personally like 6 chances at a tag instead of 1. But obviously California will never have enough supply to meet demand, like most other places.

Even if the system were changed to something more favorable for less than max point holders (me included) there just aren’t enough tags to go around. Everyone would just be bitching about not drawing even if they had equal chances.

Gotta bitch about something

 

[jfs82]

Yeah, I made my statement just as a statement of fact. I started hunting recently, I don't think I deserve the same chances as someone who's been applying for twenty years longer than me. I'm not upset about it at all. Either way, I'm already damn excited to get out with some deer and bear tags.

 

[Norm555]

I think California should shift their system to be similar to Arizona where 50% of tags are allocated in the random draw and 50% are allocated for max point holders. Most of us young guys will never catch up on elk and sheep. How do we go about lobbying to change this?

 

[Azone]

Yeah, I made my statement just as a statement of fact. I started hunting recently, I don't think I deserve the same chances as someone who's been applying for twenty years longer than me. I'm not upset about it at all. Either way, I'm already damn excited to get out with some deer and bear tags.

Deserving a tag? If you love to hunt, you love to hunt. Whether you have just been introduced recently or been a lifer like some of us should not dictate that you have a lesser chance at a tag. I know some guys that due to age are 4 to 6 years behind the max guys, they will never ever have a shot at the max point tag allocation.
My oldest kid who is 6 will be 25 points behind max when she can start applying in the future, no chance in hell she ever makes it to the max points pool. If the supply is there and it only would be a 3 to maybe 10 year wait with this system, then play ball is my opinion. But given our limited supply you will never be able to get through every one with this system. Squared points and all the guys that have applied forever just have their name in the hat more, while the new people still have a chance that's better than one lousy tag. The max point guys even get a crack at the 1 or 2 random tags before the max point draw is ran. Sorry for the rant.

 

[Azone]

I think California should shift their system to be similar to Arizona where 50% of tags are allocated in the random draw and 50% are allocated for max point holders. Most of us young guys will never catch up on elk and sheep. How do we go about lobbying to change this?

That would be a step in the right direction.