Buying a dedicated deer and elk rifle for Colorado

[CO_west]

I live in Western Colorado, surrounded on all sides by some pretty decent elk hunting. This season was my first. We didn't get anything, but I learned a ton. My rifle was my father-in-law's Remington 742 in 30-06 with an ancient 4x32 scope on it.

I just hate shooting the thing. I don't like to admit it, but I'm just not a big fan of the 30-06 recoil. The slip-on recoil pad (the 742 doesn't come with one on the stock) made the length of pull too long. I would get the stock shortened and a recoil pad put on, but I'm not a fan of the 742 in general. I don't want to invest more time or effort into it.

I'm thinking about getting a new rifle this winter. My budget isn't huge. Around $700 total for the rifle and scope.

I've looked at .308 and 7mm-08. Both promise less recoil, even though I wonder how true that will be if I get a lighter weight setup. That's part of why I'm considering some rifles that might seem sort of heavy. Hauling that Remington up and down the Grand Mesa wasn't easy on my shoulder, but the weight wasn't ever a big problem. I'm more concerned about greater recoil - I'm still learning to be a better shooter, and I'll be spending a lot of time at the range.

As far as rifles go, I'm considering the Howa 1500 compact (heavy at about 7 pounds), Weatherby Vanguard Carbine (also heavy - pretty much the same rifle), or one of the Savage Nikon scope combos. Didn't like the fit of the Tikkas for some reason, but maybe I'm just weird. Not sure if I should be looking at synthetic stocks and stainless steel or if a blued steel rifle would do fine here in Colorado.

Any advice? Other ideas I should be considering?

 

[COlineman78]

The Weatherby Vanguard is a great rifle, especially for the money. The only other suggestion is a Ruger American which allows you to spend a little more on a scope. Never shot a Savage, but a lot of guys in my club shoot their varmint rifles. As far as stainless or blued I'd go with whatever your preference unless you plan on hunting bad weather in which case I'd go stainless. For low recoil, don't overlook .270 Win. 308 is also a good cal along with 30-06. Their are plenty of threads with discussions of each. The advantage of 308 is cheap bulk practice ammo, but I think 270 is the best all around hunting round for shots under 400 yards. As far as glass for the money, I'd go with Nikon Prostaff. I have multiple and have never had a problem.

 

[Browninglover1]

I would recommend you take a serious look at the Ruger American in 6.5 Creedmoor. That little 6.5 is cheap to shoot, kills game great, and the rifle is affordable and accurate.

 

[ScottP]

Blued is fine for CO, and I shot all of my elk there with a wood stocked rifle. A .308 is plenty of rifle for an elk, my wife has knocked over 3 large elk with hers. All of the manufacturers you mention in your post are good. We have a couple of savages, a vanguard, a browning, and a ruger. I like them all. Funny you didn't like the Tikka, because that is one I want to get, borrowed my friends this year and shot an elk with it in NM.

You can definitely tell the difference between the .308 and -06 in recoil, both on the range and in the field.

 

[COlineman78]

Blued is fine for CO, and I shot all of my elk there with a wood stocked rifle.

My dad's Interarms Mark X 270 is blued with a wood stock and was fine for 30 years, but got some pretty bad rust one year when he forgot to wipe it down real good after getting back from a day of hunting in the snow. His muzzleloader is also blued with some cheap bluing and it has gotten very minor surface rust even with being vigilant about wiping it down, but this was during an unusually humid and wet season a few years ago. I wouldn't hesitate to get blued if that's what you prefer, just make sure to throw some oil on and don't forget to dry it off at the end of the day.

 

[Steve O]

You are on the right track. Savage are ugly as sin but accurate and affordable. Both calibers are proven elk killers. Many articles out there by John Haviland documenting the 7mm-08 with piles of elk. Might look for a used Model 7 Rem too if your heart is set on a stainless synthetic.

 

[Kevin Dill]

I hear you saying that recoil is part of your concern with certain performance calibers. Any gun which isn't enjoyable to shoot is likely to be one you won't shoot as much or as well. That said, a lot of guys don't know that Pachmayr makes a superb recoil pad called the Decelerator which you can install yourself. It is NOT a slip-over pad. It's pre-ground and guaranteed to fit within 0.05" on any factory stock it matches. $50 gets you a comfortable shot. I've got one on my .45-70 Alaskan and my wife loves shooting it...the pad is that good.

 

[Tim in Wa.]

stay with a light 308 put a good recoil pad on it and learn to get a good hold using the sling.You wont notice the recoil when shooting at an animal.You will carry it allot more than you shoot it and you sure wont wish for a heavier rifle when you are carrying it.My .02

 

[CO_west]

I'll have to look into the Pachmayr pads and also the Limbsavers. I honestly wonder if part of what made the gun so uncomfortable to shoot was the fact that it doesn't fit me at all. So I'm not totally ruling out 30-06. Unfortunately, I'm already trying to overcome a flinch. I think a lighter-recoiling rifle will probably help with that.

 

[5MilesBack]

You can definitely tell the difference between the .308 and -06 in recoil, both on the range and in the field.

I shoot an '06, a .308, and a 7mag, and I can't really feel that much appreciable difference in felt recoil.

 

[rileybassman]

Old school wood 30-06's with poor recoil pads can kick pretty hard.... I have a savage 116 in 30-06 that I put a B&C stock on as well as a 70's model 70 - both of which have pachmayr decelerators... they are pretty easy shooting and the decelerator really does make a huge difference. Shot a friends wood-butt 700... no fun at all.
Weight is your ally in overcoming recoil
My sister and couple cousins have 7-08s (One savage and 2 Howas), and LOVE them. Two elk, and 4 deer died from those three rifles this year... and one of the elk was over 350 yards away.

 

[rileybassman]

Oh and not all savages have to be ugly;-)

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[power54]

I have a friend that used to own a pump action Remington 30-06 (maybe 7600), very similar to your 742. It downright sucked to shoot. She swapped it out for a Ruger M77 .270 win. Its just something about those guns that make them no fun to practice with. I have a .270 win and a 7mm-08. The 7mm-08 is by far the more pleasant gun to shoot. The .270 win is not unpleasant to shoot by any means but the 7mm-08 is definitely more pleasant. With a 140 grain Barnes TTSX or TSX, the 7mm-08 is plenty of gun for an elk. My 7mm-08 is an older stainless Remington model 7. I'm not sure why they don't make that anymore, it's a fantastic little gun. If you're worried about recoil, I would personally go with the 7mm-08.

 

[CO_west]

Well you guys are almost making it sound like I should give the 30-06 another try. I need to ask around and find people with different guns of different calibers who will let me shoot them sometime.

As far as specific models go, I really like the action on the Howas and Vanguards. Feels a lot smoother and nicer than anything else in the price range, except for maybe the Remington 700's. The Savage seemed fine, but that synthetic stock is awful. I really like the stock on the Vanguard. My favorite stock in terms of fit and feel is the Hogue stock on the Howas, but I know people have problems with them being too flexible.

As far as the other budget guns, like the Axis, Ruger American, and the TC Venture, something just felt off about them. The stocks on the Axis and the Ruger felt pretty crummy, but I know they shoot well for most folks. The Venture just seems weird - can't really put my finger on it. I'm not one of those all-plastic-is-evil guys, but they all had a budget-rifle feel that the Howas, Vanguards, Savage 11/111, and Remington 700s don't have.

I'm thinking a standard Howa or Vanguard are so heavy that I could probably move up to 30-06 and truly have a do-it-all gun with manageable recoil. The Vanguard Carbine seems excellent - it's available in 308 and 7mm08 and has a 20 inch barrel. I think the Howa/Vanguard trigger is the best of the bunch.

Should I be looking closer at Remington?

 

[rileybassman]

Remingtons are nice and everyone I know that shoots em loves em, but one of my criteria is a 3 position safety... load/unload while safety is on, and brush bust with my bolt locked were my reasons - so that eliminated Remington for me. Dad has the S2 Vanguard stainless in 06... it is a pretty sweet gun for what you pay. Pretty much where I am at, is I like my savage with the aftermarket stock better, but if I was just buying a stock rifle, I would go vanguard S2 in stainless - the 06 has a 24" pipe on that rifle too... both are crazy accurate rifles... both sub MOA with factory, and my savage is sub half moa with handloads... took a whitetail doe at 562 yards this fall with it.

There really are soo many good guns on the market right now its crazy... the tikkas are really nice too, but again, for me they are a two position safety.

Edit to add that Winchester has some good offerings too that are not a whole lot more then some of the other options presented.

 

[CO_west]

Yeah, the safety is nice on the Vanguards and Howas. I still have a lot to learn about guns, but I the more I learn, the more I like the action on those rifles.

 

[COlineman78]

Sounds like the fit of the Vanguard and Howa stocks fit you best, so you should just go with them. My brother got a Vanguard .270 for like $400 at a pawn shop with a cheap scope. Personally, I prefer the 24" barrel for accuracy sake but also don't care all that much about weight (I carried a 15lb riffle this year), but they are both guarenteed sub-moa. As far as 308 vs 06; it won't really matter unless you plan on shooting out past 500 yards. Go with 308 as you can get cheap ammo (0.60/rd TYD for bulk mil-surp FMJ when I bought 1000 rds). I have a Remington 700 5R and have shot other versions of the 700; the Vanguard is a better gun for the money. Pachmayr and Limbsaver make a huge difference especially if going lightweight and a lot of factory stocks come with them.

 

[MuleyFever]

Personally, I prefer the 24" barrel for accuracy sake...

Actually, there are many reads about improved accuracy with a shorter barrel. I have read a few articles where a gun with a 24-26" barrel was used and after each round of tests then cut 2" and then they run the same tests. In many of them the shorter barrels were more accurate, to a point.

One example http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...t-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/
The results of this study were very telling. Overall, as demonstrated in the accuracy charts, the shortest barrel length provided the most consistent accuracy across the board and the longest length proved to be the least accurate with the same loads.

 

[AZ Vince]

Have a real Gunsmith measure you for a properly fitted stock.
If the stock has the wrong LOP it can increase the recoil sensation you feel.
I had my .338 Win Mag stock cut down to fit me and now it's a joy to shoot. That and a Limbsaver pad will do wonders. If the factory stock is too short a real Gunsmith can add spacers to increase the LOP.
It's cheaper than a new rifle and I'm one that likes the 30-06 for elk.

 

[MuleyFever]

I always thought the issue with a shorter barrel is decreased velocity, not decreased accuracy. Is that correct?

I think you are correct. I added a link to an interesting read that goes over accuracy and velocity.