Buying a dedicated deer and elk rifle for Colorado

[CO_west]

I think you are correct. I added a link to an interesting read that goes over accuracy and velocity.

Oops accidentally deleted the comment you're referring to. Any real disadvantages to a 20 inch barrel, like on the Vanguard carbine? Would the lost velocity make a practical difference? The standard length barrel on the Vanguard is 24 inches and it's 22 on the Howa, and I also think the barrel is thinner on the carbine.

 

[mtswampfox]

A past recoil shield or a lead sled will make range sessions bearable. The one shot you take on a critter will not be felt

 

[MuleyFever]

Oops accidentally deleted the comment you're referring to. Any real disadvantages to a 20 inch barrel, like on the Vanguard carbine? Would the lost velocity make a practical difference? The standard length barrel on the Vanguard is 24 inches and it's 22 on the Howa, and I also think the barrel is thinner on the carbine.

I am not much of a rifle person, got into muzzleloaders. Only started researching a few days ago as I am in the market. Shot a rifle for the first time in over 5 years last weekend on a cow elk hunt. Luke commented that he gets good performance from his 20" .308. The numbers I have seen dont vary much between a 20" and 22" barrel.

 

[5MilesBack]

Ruger's new Precision Rifle comes with a 20" barrel in .308, and this rifle is designed as a long range platform. Ya, you're giving up a little speed with a shorter barrel, but I wouldn't give it too much thought. Go with what you want to carry around and will actually enjoy shooting.

 

[CO_west]

Any thoughts on the Ruger M77 All Weather? It's available for under $600 in some places. I haven't gotten my hands on one - how's the action? The stock? 7 lbs in 308 with a 22 inch barrel sounds reasonable to me.

 

[5MilesBack]

Any thoughts on the Ruger M77 All Weather? It's available for under $600 in some places. I haven't gotten my hands on one - how's the action? The stock? 7 lbs in 308 with a 22 inch barrel sounds reasonable to me.

I have one in .308. It's a good gun, I got it for my daughters to shoot and one of them really does shoot it well. First time ever that she shot anything bigger than a .22, and she shot a 1" 3 shot group out of it.

Are you close to the Springs? You could check it out if you want.

 

[blutooth]

I'm a little curious about your build that you are having trouble getting rifles to fit you. Extra tall or short? I second that you should see a smith and get fitted if you are having trouble getting comfortable with off the shelf rifles.

The other question I would ask is what is your intended range - Are you expecting 400-500 yard shots to be the norm (chosen optics will make a difference here as well).

I have an xbolt in 300wsm and a Ruger American in 30-06. If they made the Ruger American in a magnum (either 7mm or 300) I would have that instead of the xbolt. For the $, I do not think the American can be beat. Yes the stock seems a little flimsy, but it has held up very well for me and I'm not worried about scratching it in the field like a wood stock.

 

[CO_west]

I wouldn't say that I'm having trouble getting rifles to fit. I think they pretty much all do, just some better than others. The problem with my Remington 742 was that the stock/recoil pad combo made the length of pull about 15 inches. Way too much. As far as the American goes, I think I might just have to get over that cheap feeling.

Shots would not normally be in the 400-500 yard range. I'm thinking 100-300 most of the time.

 

[COlineman78]

A past recoil shield or a lead sled will make range sessions bearable. The one shot you take on a critter will not be felt

Agree, when you are on a bench and leaning into the rifle the recoil is always worse than field shots where your position isn't as stable. That being said, recoil pads make a huge difference. Event my dad's 270 was unbearable after 10 shots with the factory plastic pad.

Actually, there are many reads about improved accuracy with a shorter barrel. I have read a few articles where a gun with a 24-26" barrel was used and after each round of tests then cut 2" and then they run the same tests. In many of them the shorter barrels were more accurate, to a point.

One example http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...t-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/
The results of this study were very telling. Overall, as demonstrated in the accuracy charts, the shortest barrel length provided the most consistent accuracy across the board and the longest length proved to be the least accurate with the same loads.

Well, I think the key there is that the test was performed with the same load. I won't argue with the results as I think it's probably spot on for factory loads. All of my longer bull barrels with tight twist rates (Stag Model 7 and Remington 700 5R Milspec) absolutely hate all factory loads. These are both match grade barrels and actually shoot cheap military loads surprisingly well, but everything else is crap (except custom loads of course). I was trying out some different 308 hunting loads this year and had to have my buddy who is former spec-ops and scout sniper trained shoot it to make sure it wan't me because I was seeing 6"+ deviation with an expensive Nosler load. I suspect this is due to factory loads not producing the correct velocities for the longer barrels and tighter twists.

 

[rileybassman]

I wouldn't say that I'm having trouble getting rifles to fit. I think they pretty much all do, just some better than others. The problem with my Remington 742 was that the stock/recoil pad combo made the length of pull about 15 inches. Way too much. As far as the American goes, I think I might just have to get over that cheap feeling.

Shots would not normally be in the 400-500 yard range. I'm thinking 100-300 most of the time.

B&C Medalist Classic Checkered stock has a LOP of 13.5"... which feel absolutely perfect to me, and I'm a fairly small guy (5'7")

They make aftermarkets for many of these rifles... just another option... understand it costs more, but if you find a cranking deal on a used rifle, it may be worth picking it up, and going with a $200-250 stock to complete it... comes with decelerator pad too...

 

[30338]

Ruger Hawkeye stainless in 308 for $499 here.

http://www.cdnnsports.com/rugerr-m7...l?SID=lopvn4rrlhm8dn6pce0uut7nf3#.VmrB6-MrKRs

 

[CO_west]

I've been doing a lot of reading... What do you guys think of the 270 Win? How does recoil compare to the 30-06? Seems like more than enough gun for anything I'm ever going to hunt here in Colorado. Is it close enough to the 7mm-08 that I might as well go with the one with lighter recoil?

 

[rileybassman]

.270s patent case is an 06... It is a long action. It is slightly lower recoil then the 30-06... I would say almost right in the middle of the 06 and 7-08. It is a good round. The .280 is also a great round. It is a 7mm, so basically a 7-08 with a little more powder. All the listed calibers have the same net effect within 300 yards I would say.

 

[COlineman78]

270 Win has a little less recoil, but hardly noticeable. The best part about 270 is the flat trajectory. No need to adjust for drop till out past 300 yards. Shot my first elk with 270 Win. Only time we had a problem is a lung only shot passed through too cleanly and there was no blood trail. It dropped less than 100 yards away, but the lack of blood, 3 feet of snow and pitch black night made it difficult to find.

 

[6mm Remington]

A 280 Remington or a 7x57 in a Winchester Model 70, Remington 700, or Ruger Hawkeye would all be excellent. Neither of those tow rounds kicks excessively and will take elk handily. A good recoil pad installed by a gunsmith is worth it's weight in gold as well.

 

[hodgeman]

I've killed critters with the 7-08, .308, .270, and .30-06....

The only difference for most shooting is the fine print on the ballistics chart...animals don't read that BTW. Any and all will do for any deer or elk that walks for as far as you should try to shoot one.

Lately I've been shooting the 7-08 quite a bit. It is a low recoil killer without peer, especially in lightweight rifles. Vanguards are great rifles that shoot good (weigh a bit more than most new rifles), the Ruger American- feels cheap, shoots great. I've also had good luck with a Savage 11, Tikka and the Browning X-Bolt. If you can swing the coin, my Browning was the easiest rifle I've ever had to get shooting great.

 

[GKPrice]

I hear you saying that recoil is part of your concern with certain performance calibers. Any gun which isn't enjoyable to shoot is likely to be one you won't shoot as much or as well. That said, a lot of guys don't know that Pachmayr makes a superb recoil pad called the Decelerator which you can install yourself. It is NOT a slip-over pad. It's pre-ground and guaranteed to fit within 0.05" on any factory stock it matches. $50 gets you a comfortable shot. I've got one on my .45-70 Alaskan and my wife loves shooting it...the pad is that good.

Decelerator pads were the standard for many years and are great pads but I dare say the Limbsaver pads tame recoil a bit better and the new generation 2 Limbsaver is that much better yet - I just put one on my Tikka superlight '06 and am amazed, I didn't ever realize I was getting kicked that much until I switched from the original Limbsaver to the Gen 2 - they're all about the same price and the Limbsaver has a prefit for virtually any make/model of rifle (or shotgun) made

 

[GKPrice]

I've killed critters with the 7-08, .308, .270, and .30-06....

The only difference for most shooting is the fine print on the ballistics chart...animals don't read that BTW. Any and all will do for any deer or elk that walks for as far as you should try to shoot one.

Lately I've been shooting the 7-08 quite a bit. It is a low recoil killer without peer, especially in lightweight rifles. Vanguards are great rifles that shoot good (weigh a bit more than most new rifles), the Ruger American- feels cheap, shoots great. I've also had good luck with a Savage 11, Tikka and the Browning X-Bolt. If you can swing the coin, my Browning was the easiest rifle I've ever had to get shooting great.

Over the years I have become the go to guy for handloading and preparing rifles for "the guys" - Now that all the kids AND some of the grandkids have come of age I'm enjoying a surge in this practice once again - In the past 3 years I've set up 4 - 7-08's, 2 in Ruger Americans and 2 in Kimber Montana's - with a premium 140 bullet "the 7mm-08 kills without peer" describes perfectly my experience and the 3 boys and 1 young lady all shoot the 7mm-08 so well I wish I could take the credit for their proficiency ! I am seriously watching for Tikka to produce the "superlight" in 7-08, if that happens I'll have one - FWIW, the Ruger American is one well designed rifle too

 

[CO_west]

I'm thinking I need to call all my friends and see who has which guns - get them to either take me shooting or let me borrow their guns. I don't want to rule out a .308 or .270 without trying one first!

 

[hodgeman]

I'm thinking I need to call all my friends and see who has which guns - get them to either take me shooting or let me borrow their guns. I don't want to rule out a .308 or .270 without trying one first!

That's a good plan. Keep in mind that differences in felt recoil between those cartridges are more a function of stock design and gun weight than any actual ballistics. A light 7-08 with a bad stock fit can belt you harder than a chunky '06 with a squishy pad.

In those four cartridges, I'd pick the rifle I liked first and then worry over the cartridge later. They'll all work so if you find one you like- pull the trigger on it and fall in love with the cartridge second.