Bullpup Hunting Rifle

[treillw]

Back when the DE LRKM was new and exciting around here I picked up a desert tech SRS A1 for a more versatile option with 6.5x47 and 300 Norma conversions. Very convenient cartridge swaps and both conversions were very accurate but the whole thing was a compromise as has been discussed. The ergos were less desirable for basically everything - less stable for shooting, bolt/mag manipulation, and even carrying was cumbersome compared to a traditional bolt rifle.

Could you please elaborate on how it's uncomfortable to carry? Also, how is it less stable for shooting? Does it effect shooting prone?

Also interested in your thoughts @Nine Banger

Wish i could find one locally to test out.

 

[treillw]

I found a couple more just to show anyone that's curious how tiny the SRS A2 Covert is.

OAL is what it really boils down to.

Dude in photo is 4 at the time and probably 36" tall.

Deer is a 77gr TMK death...just sayin'

Dang that looks fun.

 

[treillw]

From what I've read, my concerns would be the trigger (I'm a trigger snob), carrying it comfortable for miles, and stability while shooting. I don't care about awkward reloads - if i can't put something down with 4 or 5 rounds, a goofy mag release should be the least of my worries. I wouldn't be clearing rooms in Fallujah with it.

Having the bolt right near your face would be awkward, but is it really that hard to adapt and learn how to operate the gun??

How else could you carry a supressed 338 lapua or 300 Norma through the woods? It would be pretty dang awkward carrying an incredibly long traditional rifle too.

 

[wind gypsy]

Could you please elaborate on how it's uncomfortable to carry? Also, how is it less stable for shooting? Does it effect shooting prone?

Also interested in your thoughts @Nine Banger

Wish i could find one locally to test out.

Traditional hunting rifle I tend to walk around all day with holding under the mag or just in front with one hand. Look at nine bangers pic and imagine where the balance point is- probably behind the grip where there’s no good spot to hold it. That ass heaviness also makes it balance shitty on a single front rest and less stable. It’s more prone to change POA based on your input on the ass end of the rifle.

In regards to shooting with a bipod or front and rear support, the further apart front and rear support are generally the more stable a rifle is. That’s why you see spigots on chassis moving bipods forward. On a SRS and especially the covert models, your only front support location is real dang close to the trigger so you see your input on the back end of the rifle move the crosshairs more.

The mag comes into play with back support bags, not always an issue but less flexible than ideal.

Bolt manipulation is obviously more cumbersome.

None of this prevents a guy from being able to shoot tight with one it’s just less ideal and you have more things working against you.

 

[wind gypsy]

From what I've read, my concerns would be the trigger (I'm a trigger snob), carrying it comfortable for miles, and stability while shooting. I don't care about awkward reloads - if i can't put something down with 4 or 5 rounds, a goofy mag release should be the least of my worries. I wouldn't be clearing rooms in Fallujah with it.

Having the bolt right near your face would be awkward, but is it really that hard to adapt and learn how to operate the gun??

How else could you carry a supressed 338 lapua or 300 Norma through the woods? It would be pretty dang awkward carrying an incredibly long traditional rifle too.

Easy, don’t

The DT triggers are definitely different but I find them easy to shoot well. That’s one thing I wasn’t really bothered by. Gotta be ok with some creep or 2 stages in general. Frankly I’d take that over a triggertech with no overtravel.

 

[treillw]

Desert techs website says the center of gravity of the rifle is just forward of the trigger guard. That doesn't sound like it would be awkward to carry .....

 

[Formidilosus]

Desert techs website says the center of gravity of the rifle is just forward of the trigger guard. That doesn't sound like it would be awkward to carry .....

Grin. You’re trying to convince yourself that it’s great- so buy one and use it. Maybe everyone that has used them and owned them and responded here, as well as nearly the entire shooting world that cares about shooting is wrong, and bullpups are actually great.

 

[treillw]

Grin. You’re trying to convince yourself that it’s great- so buy one and use it. Maybe everyone that has used them and owned them and responded here, as well as nearly the entire shooting world that cares about shooting is wrong, and bullpups are actually great.

Some of the information does not pertain to my use case.

 

[wind gypsy]

Desert techs website says the center of gravity of the rifle is just forward of the trigger guard. That doesn't sound like it would be awkward to carry .....

Maybe.. definitely did not balance there once a full mag was in and my scope was mounted on my A1 but it looks like I needed the scope further back than Nine Banger which makes a difference.

Mine wasn’t light so there wasn’t much carrying but it’s definitely a downgrade to traditional sporter rifle in that regard.

 

[treillw]

Grin. You’re trying to convince yourself that it’s great- so buy one and use it. Maybe everyone that has used them and owned them and responded here, as well as nearly the entire shooting world that cares about shooting is wrong, and bullpups are actually great.

They have different models too. Some thing that is meant to be 2.5' long is definitely going to have an awkward balance.

I would expect them to not bold face lie in writing about something that is easy to verify on their website. Lawsuit?

 

[Nine Banger]

Could you please elaborate on how it's uncomfortable to carry? Also, how is it less stable for shooting? Does it effect shooting prone?

Also interested in your thoughts @Nine Banger

I carry my saddle and climbing sticks and a smaller bag in my crib panel on exo k4 hip belt style pack.

I put the pack on and then drape the Desert Tech over my shoulders and across my torso. This is using the QD points near the muzzle and the back of the stock.

I can come up to shoot in a second or 2 and I have taken deer off hand with the stock smushed between the pack strap and my neck with the sling still around my back.

I have hiked 2 miles like this several times and less distance many times.

It's stable for shooting. It's heavy as shite. When I first got it I used a bipod and the monopod. I quickly stopped using the monopod. I dropped the bipod for a tripod and a rail. If you're shooting prone like the first photo I posted you can grab the rear of the buttstock with your fingers and use the jellyfish and it shoots "normal" but you have to memorize where the mag release is to change mags without taking your eye off the target. Same thing for operating the bolt without taking your eye off the target. You get a muscle memory for it.

The trigger is adjustable and good.

 

[treillw]

Maybe.. definitely did not balance there once a full mag was in and my scope was mounted on my A1 but it looks like I needed the scope further back than Nine Banger which makes a difference.

Mine wasn’t light so there wasn’t much carrying but it’s definitely a downgrade to traditional sporter rifle in that regard.

View attachment 757620

You have an A1? I don't see that model listed.

 

[wind gypsy]

at the end of the day, they work but they are a compromise and operate differently than traditional layout. Another reason I sold mine is I figured I’d be better served practicing with a similar platform to my other rifles because it absolutely does require different considerations in many positions.

 

[wind gypsy]

You have an A1? I don't see that model listed.

Had. A1 is the prior generation of the current A2.

 

[treillw]

I carry my saddle and climbing sticks and a smaller bag in my crib panel on exo k4 hip belt style pack.

I put the pack on and then drape the Desert Tech over my shoulders and across my torso. This us using the QD points near the muzzle and the back of the stock.

I can come up to shoot in a second or 2 and I have taken deer off hand with the stock smushed between the pack strap and my neck with the sling still around my back.

I have hiked 2 miles like this several times and less distance many times.

It's stable for shooting. It's heavy as shite. When I first got it I used a bipod and the monopod. I quickly stopped using the monopod. I dropped the bipod for a tripod and a rail. If you're shooting prone like the first photo I posted you can grab the rear of the buttstock with your fingers and use the jellyfish and it shoots "normal" but you have to memorize where the mag release is to change mags without taking your eye off the target. Same thing for operating the bolt without taking your eye off the target. You get a muscle memory for it.

The trigger is adustable and good.

It's definitely a heavier rifle, but 9 pounds bare rifle isn't that bad. Add an nx8 and bipod rail on it and you'd probably be at 11 pounds. Don't know if i want a 338 Lapua too much lighter than that...

Or am i crazy?

 

[Formidilosus]

Some of the information does not pertain to my use case.

Oh I wrote that smiling and was genuine about you buying one and trying it. Maybe you will be the one that finds they are awesome.


I have been through bullpup “cycles” 4-5 times in the last 20’ish years, and each time the responses are exactly what you are writing. The people consistently try to convince themselves why it’s better, generally ignore the answers given by the vast majority that have used them, and won’t accept that maybe the reason they aren’t popular despite their “obvious advantage” is because they might actually suck… except in extremely niche use cases.
What I and everyone I know that has used bullpups (both semi auto and bolt gun) at a very high skill level have arrived at- is that the compromises are in no way outdone by the single “advantage”. The answer that nearly everyone comes to, is to take a conventional rifle, cut the barrel down shorter and use different cartridge/ammo to make up the external ballistics difference.



@Nine Banger shot his well. Yet he shot a standard rifle noticeably better, especially from positions other than prone. I hope you get one, and I hope your use case is the niche where they are ok. But there is a reason they aren’t popular and it has nothing to do with tradition or looks.

 

[treillw]

Oh I wrote that smiling and was genuine about you buying one and trying it. Maybe you will be the one that finds they are awesome.


I have been through bullpup “cycles” 4-5 times in the last 20’ish years, and each time the responses are exactly what you are writing. The people consistently try to convince themselves why it’s better, generally ignore the answers given by the vast majority that have used them, and won’t accept that maybe the reason they aren’t popular despite their “obvious advantage” is because they might actually suck… except in extremely niche use cases.
What I and everyone I know that has used bullpups (both semi auto and bolt gun) at a very high skill level have arrived at- is that the compromises are in no way outdone by the single “advantage”. The answer that nearly everyone comes to, is to take a conventional rifle, cut the barrel down shorter and use different cartridge/ammo to make up the external ballistics difference.



@Nine Banger shot his well. Yet he shot a standard rifle noticeably better, especially from positions other than prone. I hope you get one, and I hope your use case is the niche where they are ok. But there is a reason they aren’t popular and it has nothing to do with tradition or looks.

I understand what you're saying. I'm just not the kind of person who is going to vote for Kamala because the news says she's great.

Gather the info, vet the info, see what is useful, figure out the pros and cons, make an informed decision. Commonly referred to as having and using a brain. I'd probably be one of the most analytical people you'd ever meet. There are 1000s of opinions, saying different things. How can you know what to believe if you don't think through it for yourself? Blindly trusting people has only ever gotten me in trouble in life. I don't care who you are, I'm verifying what you say.

I'm not saying people are wrong about their experiences. Some of it just doesn't apply to me - for insurance, I'm not going to be doing tactical reloads in combat or really any reloads. I don't care where the mag release button is. If I can't put an animal down in 7 or 11 shots, i have other problems and ethically shouldn't be pulling the trigger. It's nice to know that detail and I'm grateful that people provide it to me, but it doesn't negatively impact my view on the concept.

 

[treillw]

I carry my saddle and climbing sticks and a smaller bag in my crib panel on exo k4 hip belt style pack.

I put the pack on and then drape the Desert Tech over my shoulders and across my torso. This is using the QD points near the muzzle and the back of the stock.

I can come up to shoot in a second or 2 and I have taken deer off hand with the stock smushed between the pack strap and my neck with the sling still around my back.

I have hiked 2 miles like this several times and less distance many times.

It's stable for shooting. It's heavy as shite. When I first got it I used a bipod and the monopod. I quickly stopped using the monopod. I dropped the bipod for a tripod and a rail. If you're shooting prone like the first photo I posted you can grab the rear of the buttstock with your fingers and use the jellyfish and it shoots "normal" but you have to memorize where the mag release is to change mags without taking your eye off the target. Same thing for operating the bolt without taking your eye off the target. You get a muscle memory for it.

The trigger is adjustable and good.

Thank you. Where is the balance point on your rifle with a 26"barrel, suppressor, bipod, and loaded mag? Can you carry it by hand comfortably? I almost never use a sling.

 

[wind gypsy]

It's definitely a heavier rifle, but 9 pounds bare rifle isn't that bad. Add an nx8 and bipod rail on it and you'd probably be at 11 pounds. Don't know if i want a 338 Lapua too much lighter than that...

Or am i crazy?

I think the crazy thing is the idea that a 11# awkward handling 338 lapua is going to be an asset for hunting except for a very small subset of hunters.

When Broz was extolling the virtues of the LRKM 338 terminator for killing stuff way out there I got drawn to the idea of a long barreled big boomer for close to truck open glassing/shooting spots. The DTA was a more appealing alternative because I could shoot 6.5x47 volume for practice at a much lower cost and recoil penalty. I maybe spent 2 evening hunts in such a spot with the 27" 300 norma conversion before I moved back to the midwest and realized i'll never shoot enough in mountainous conditions to where i can shoot at distances where the big boomers were an actual benefit. Standard smaller magnums i actually wanted to carry and that operated more like all the other guns i shoot with was a much better alternative within any ethical range.

Here's the place to go if you want to read about SRSs

Official (DTA) SRS, HTI, Covert, Hunter Thread

^ did you get it from SAC? I bought it (very lightly) used, few hundred rounds on it. I’m up in Canada and ordering a new kit from SAC is a pain in a** and there’s one distributor who sells them up here and they price them quite high. And they only offer 18-22” barrels, wanted a longer one...

www.snipershide.com

I peeked this morning and saw this interesting post relative to rokslide:

 

[Nine Banger]

Thank you. Where is the balance point on your rifle with a 26"barrel, suppressor, bipod, and loaded mag?

My barrels are 20", 18" and 18"...