BS violation today

[MattB]

Yes, I do as once I was charged with possession of a controlled substance, no proof of insurance and invalid license plate.

I was driving a company truck, I asked the owner if it was legal, he said yes. I got pulled over and they found a couple roaches in the ash tray.

The law states in WV that you shall not knowingly drive a vehicle that is not properly licensed, insured and inspected. Law also states your shall not knowingly have in your possession less than 15 grams of Marijuana.
The judge was nice enough to read the law to me several times and even ran his finger under the part about knowingly doing this kind of behavior and then asked me how do I plead.
I plead innocent and stated I did not knowingly know any of the things I was charged with.
The judge then declared me innocent of all charges.

Again this does not apply to all crimes but it did apply to my crimes as I did not knowingly know. I drove the vehicle in good faith that it was legal and as I do not do drugs and would not think to ask if any drugs are present in the truck.

Same applies to the OP as he does not hunt over bait, he presumed there was no bait present therefor he had no intent and would not dawn on him to check another person's feeder to see if they was baiting. Further more, it is not his duty to police someone's else's equipment and is not required to put himself in harms way to molest someone's else's property. He is not bound by law to neither put him self in that position nor is he bound by law to be responsible for some one else's action.

I was in law enforcement for approximately 10 and a half years and I recently stayed at a Holiday Inn. So I know a little bit about a little bit.

The only fault of the OP is he should have kept his mouth shut and never offered any relevant info. Deny everything and make counter accusations. Never presume anything. Fall he knew, they very well could have shook the corn out of the feeder after he passed by.


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

1. Hunt any area where baiting/feeding has occurred until 10 days after all bait/feed has been removed or consumed. See Deer Seasons & Bag Limits for Area Definition. (*Except those in possession of a baiting privilege license hunting white-tail deer or feral swine. 220-2-.11)"

Maybe it is just me, but I am not seeing the word "knowingly" in Alabama's baiting regulation.

Congrats on the stay at the Holiday Inn.

Prohibited Methods of Hunting | eRegulations

The following are prohibited methods of hunting as condensed from Alabama law and regulation. Consult the Code of Alabama Title 9 and Alabama Game, Fish, Furbearers, and Other Wildlife Regulation Book for the entire law or regulation. Cites are provided below. It is Illegal to: Hunt deer or...

www.eregulations.com

 

[Rob5589]

1. Hunt any area where baiting/feeding has occurred until 10 days after all bait/feed has been removed or consumed. See Deer Seasons & Bag Limits for Area Definition. (*Except those in possession of a baiting privilege license hunting white-tail deer or feral swine. 220-2-.11)"

Maybe it is just me, but I am not seeing the word "knowingly" in Alabama's baiting regulation.

Congrats on the stay at the Holiday Inn.

Prohibited Methods of Hunting | eRegulations

The following are prohibited methods of hunting as condensed from Alabama law and regulation. Consult the Code of Alabama Title 9 and Alabama Game, Fish, Furbearers, and Other Wildlife Regulation Book for the entire law or regulation. Cites are provided below. It is Illegal to: Hunt deer or...

www.eregulations.com

Read the original post, it will answer the question. The op should have said nothing, nor openly posted on a public forum.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Lengthy I know...So I took my son on his first turkey hunt this morning. Arkansas youth weekend. Went to a lease that I’m a member of. We walked down an old road that I’ve used for locating birds my entire life. Someone had a deer stand and a corn feeder still up from deer seasons. We walked straight by it and down the ridge another 300 yards. I proceeded to crack off a few calls but heard zip in return. Walked back towards my truck and when we went by the feeder, 3 wardens stood up out of the brush. My son (13) was given a warning for hunting over bait. I was given the same warning and issued a citation for “aiding/abetting” because I supposedly let him do it.
I know you can’t bait turkeys. I never have and never will. I honestly didn’t even pay attention to the feeder because it wasn’t mine and I didn’t even know it was there until we topped the ridge. There was still some corn in the feeder and a tiny bit on the ground.
Didn’t matter to the warden. Simply wrong place, wrong time. But not the way a kid should be introduced to Game and Fish officers. Most are simply doing their jobs. But this was overboard. I will be fighting it in court. Thoughts???

I was cited by a GW once and went to court and beat it. I was pissed during my defense and demanded that the GW get additional training and be as inconvenienced as I was. Don't let em stain your reputation, teach your boy how to stand up for himself. Take him with you. BTW...carry a GPS and initiate tracking whenever you hunt...it provides a record of your travels. Oh and if the Judge offers you a reduced sentence or fine say NO! Insist you and your boy didn't do anything wrong and the officer needs to be retrained. Go with purpose.

 

[boonez40]

1. Hunt any area where baiting/feeding has occurred until 10 days after all bait/feed has been removed or consumed. See Deer Seasons & Bag Limits for Area Definition. (*Except those in possession of a baiting privilege license hunting white-tail deer or feral swine. 220-2-.11)"

Maybe it is just me, but I am not seeing the word "knowingly" in Alabama's baiting regulation.

Congrats on the stay at the Holiday Inn.

Prohibited Methods of Hunting | eRegulations

The following are prohibited methods of hunting as condensed from Alabama law and regulation. Consult the Code of Alabama Title 9 and Alabama Game, Fish, Furbearers, and Other Wildlife Regulation Book for the entire law or regulation. Cites are provided below. It is Illegal to: Hunt deer or...

www.eregulations.com

How would the OP know there was corn in the feeder or that any corn was on the ground ?
Was OP supposed to go check the feeder and molest someone's equipment?
Was it OP duty by law to do such a thing ?
Is it OP duty to put himself in harms way ? What if the 3 GW in the brush had not been GW but rather had been 3 poachers, I would argue that people have been shot and killed for less and in this day and age, how would the law expect OP to put himself in harms way.

I just find this all to bizarre the OP had been in this situation and that something more is or has gone on that would put 3 GW on his lease.

I have been hunting for 40 years and have only encountered 2 GW in my life, once for a road stop to check us for loaded guns and once for a game violation that I did commit 20 plus years ago because I was lazy and did not check a deer in 24 hours after the season had closed. I shot one deer and did not check it in and a family member turned me in. Nothing i could do, the deer was hanging in the building and time had elapsed on checking it in. I was guilty of breaking the law and back then, it cost me 700.00

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Billy Goat]

Yes, I do as once I was charged with possession of a controlled substance, no proof of insurance and invalid license plate.

I was driving a company truck, I asked the owner if it was legal, he said yes. I got pulled over and they found a couple roaches in the ash tray.

The law states in WV that you shall not knowingly drive a vehicle that is not properly licensed, insured and inspected. Law also states your shall not knowingly have in your possession less than 15 grams of Marijuana.
The judge was nice enough to read the law to me several times and even ran his finger under the part about knowingly doing this kind of behavior and then asked me how do I plead.
I plead innocent and stated I did not knowingly know any of the things I was charged with.
The judge then declared me innocent of all charges.

Again this does not apply to all crimes but it did apply to my crimes as I did not knowingly know. I drove the vehicle in good faith that it was legal and as I do not do drugs and would not think to ask if any drugs are present in the truck.

Same applies to the OP as he does not hunt over bait, he presumed there was no bait present therefor he had no intent and would not dawn on him to check another person's feeder to see if they was baiting. Further more, it is not his duty to police someone's else's equipment and is not required to put himself in harms way to molest someone's else's property. He is not bound by law to neither put him self in that position nor is he bound by law to be responsible for some one else's action.

I was in law enforcement for approximately 10 and a half years and I recently stayed at a Holiday Inn. So I know a little bit about a little bit.

The only fault of the OP is he should have kept his mouth shut and never offered any relevant info. Deny everything and make counter accusations. Never presume anything. Fall he knew, they very well could have shook the corn out of the feeder after he passed by.


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Do not come across state lines I to Va then. Here when you are driving a vehicle, yours or not, you are in possession of it. Doesn't matter if the drugs are in your buddies pocket, they are still in your vehicle.


And try telling an arkansas game warden you didn't know there was corn in the water where you shot those ducks. Intention has nothing to do with it, it's that there's corn there.

That's how guys keep spots from being hunted, they bait them.

 

[WRO]

My post was pretty clear. But hey, I'll help you out here. Our typical criminal laws typically requires some from of intent as it directly relates to the crime, i.e., murder for example, is it murder or is it involuntary manslaughter. However, our game and fish laws are Prima Facie (based on the first impression unless proven otherwise). This directly relates to why a Warden does NOT need a warrant to search if you appear to have been or about to engage in fishing or hunting.

But hey, here is the Ca law:

California Code of Regulations (CCR, T14)​

• Take game birds, game mammals or furbearing mammals except as permitted by regulations. CCR T14-250.
• Hunt with a crossbow during archery season (except with a Disabled Archer Permit). CCR T14-354(g).
• Possess a firearm while hunting during archery season or while hunting during the general season with an archery-only tag. CCR T14-354(h).
• Take spike buck. CCR T14- 351(c).
• Pursue, drive, herd, or take any bird or mammal from any type of motor-driven air or land vehicles, motorboat, airboat, sailboat, or snowmobile, except when the motor is off and/or the sails furled and it is drifting, beached, moored, resting at anchor, or is being propelled by paddle, oar or pole. CCR T14-251.
• Knowingly feed big game mammals. CCR T14-251.3.
• Take game birds and mammals within 400 yards of any baited area. This does not apply to the taking of game birds and mammals on or over standing crops, croplands, or grains found scattered solely as the result of normal agricultural operations or procedures. CCR T14-257.5.
• Take bears within 400 yards of any garbage dump or bait. CCR T14-365(e).

There is NO knowingly in that section of the law; there however is for the regulation above, only applying to feeding big game.

My point in previous responses is that the law must be measurable to be legally enforced, for example, Dawn and Dusk are not measurable that is why Sunrise and Sunset are used in the regulations, as they are precisely measurable, and thus enforceable.

God hates California fyi..

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Bubblehide]

God hates California fyi..

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

No doubt about that. I am just to far into building my retirement to give it up. Unfortunately, I am too far from retiring. So I am simply stuck here for a while.

 

[realunlucky]

God hates California fyi..

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

I thought he just used Californians as a tool to punish everyone else.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[Bubblehide]

I thought he just used Californians as a tool to punish everyone else.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

LMAO!

 

[sndmn11]

How would the OP know there was corn in the feeder or that any corn was on the ground ?
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

He walked by it once, and admitted he knew what it was. They got a free pass that time. They chose to hunt back by the bait site a second time and that was when they got dinged. You can only be ignorant the first time.

 

[Fatcamp]

He walked by it once, and admitted he knew what it was. They got a free pass that time. They chose to hunt back by the bait site a second time and that was when they got dinged. You can only be ignorant the first time.

Technically, by the thoughts of some in this thread, as soon as he stepped out of his car he was guilty of hunting baited property, as was his son. He didn't even need to walk by the feeder. In fact, anyone hunting within miles of a feeder that has several kernels of corn in it is guilty of hunting over bait. According to the long arm of the law, anyways.

 

[Rob5589]

Technically, by the thoughts of some in this thread, as soon as he stepped out of his car he was guilty of hunting baited property, as was his son. He didn't even need to walk by the feeder. In fact, anyone hunting within miles of a feeder that has several kernels of corn in it is guilty of hunting over bait. According to the long arm of the law, anyways.

The way the law is written, you may be right. But to correct the bolded, it isn't the officer but the legislature you need to blame. The GW is doing what he is paid to do.

 

[sndmn11]

Technically, by the thoughts of some in this thread, as soon as he stepped out of his car he was guilty of hunting baited property, as was his son. He didn't even need to walk by the feeder. In fact, anyone hunting within miles of a feeder that has several kernels of corn in it is guilty of hunting over bait. According to the long arm of the law, anyways.

Discretion of the officers in not writing can only go so far before it becomes negligence. There's probably a warden forum with a recent story of a guy and his boy who walked circles around a feeder turkey squawking and had the audacity to be shocked in getting a citation. He is probably stoked to see it being contested so he can snag some easy OT at the courthouse.

 

[Fatcamp]

The way the law is written, you may be right. But to correct the bolded, it isn't the officer but the legislature you need to blame. The GW is doing what he is paid to do.

For the citizenry to respect the role of law enforcement discretion and judgement on the part of the officer is required. Or so I am told.

 

[Rob5589]

For the citizenry to respect the role of law enforcement discretion and judgement on the part of the officer is required. Or so I am told.

The son received a warning, Dad a citation. I would say the warden used some discretion. I'd guess he could have really jammed them up if he wanted to.

 

[Squincher]

Discretion of the officers in not writing can only go so far before it becomes negligence. There's probably a warden forum with a recent story of a guy and his boy who walked circles around a feeder turkey squawking and had the audacity to be shocked in getting a citation. He is probably stoked to see it being contested so he can snag some easy OT at the courthouse.

I'll admit up front I'm more cynical than most. This being the internet, I've wondered since this was posted if everyone was up in arms over a perceived injustice while the Wardens had a video of the OP set up right on top of the feeder.

 

[sndmn11]

I'll admit up front I'm more cynical than most. This being the internet, I've wondered since this was posted if everyone was up in arms over a perceived injustice while the Wardens had a video of the OP set up right on top of the feeder.

Or one telling the other on video how great it was that the feeder was there because the turkeys would be around.

 

[Gapmaster]

He walked by it once, and admitted he knew what it was. They got a free pass that time. They chose to hunt back by the bait site a second time and that was when they got dinged. You can only be ignorant the first time.

Didn’t hunt back by the bait. Only road in and out. Guess we could have walked 2 miles around through a briar thicket, but when you’re not doing anything wrong you don’t think about ways to go around stuff.

 

[Gapmaster]

I have court Tuesday, so we’ll see what the Judge says. If they tell me to pay the fine, then that’s life. I won’t plead guilty to something I didn’t do. Plenty of opinions both ways on here. Everyone is entitled to one. Thanks for the support and the pointers.

 

[Rob5589]

Good luck! Truly hope the judge goes easy on ya.