BS violation today

[GreenNDark Timber]

While I believe you had no intention of setting up over the bait and shooting a turkey and it's unfortunate you received a ticket, especially with your son, I also think the Wardens did the correct thing in issuing you a citation. Hunting over bait for deer is only allowed until 12/31 in Arkansas. There's really only one reason for there to be corn in a feeder in April and that's for turkeys. You said it wasn't yours and you didn't know about it, so does every other person those Wardens confront.

Personally, I think the better lesson for your son would be to pay the ticket, explain to him why you received it and spend your time having a club meeting to get some rules in place. Our turkey population is already in bad shape, having other club members using corn to attract them would be the real concern for me.

That's just my thoughts. I know its a bad situation especially as a parent trying to do the right thing. Congratulations on your son's bird.

 

[khunter]

On a lighter note. My son did get his first bird this morning. Got a show too! Strutted in from 90 yards out. Made a 10 yard shot. Proud of him for his demeanor. View attachment 281613

Hopefully you also got a nice trophy photo NOT sitting on a road and in a pool of blood. Congrats to your son but might consider upping your photo game... He will kill a lot critters hopefully so may as well make good photos along the way.

 

[Rich M]

Walking by a feeder is not hunting over bait. If they were there, they know you didn't hunt over bait.

Either that or your 300 yards wasn't the 900 feet you thought it was.

More reasons why folks distrust LEO.

 

[Laramie]

Tough crowd here...

I can see both sides of the argument. I managed a lease for years and definitely hunted within 200 yards of empty feeders for turkeys several times. They were mine that I use in June and July to inventory our deer herd. We always cleaned them out in late July and capped them to ensure we weren't going to be violating any rules in the fall or the following spring.

I think what someone mentioned above would be my course of action. I would pay the fine. I would call a meeting with everyone on the lease to discuss setting up clear cut rules to avoid potential violations in the future. After that meeting, I would write a letter to the wardens letting them know what changes had been made to avoid violations in the future. I would involve your son in the entire process so he could be a part of enacting change and also a part of opening good lines of communication with the wardens.

I think the biggest thing you can do as a dad is to spin this in the right way to your son. The last thing you want is for him to grow up thinking game wardens are the enemy. While they all aren't perfect, they are out there working for all of us as hunters. I would consider you and your son meeting with them later this summer to clear the air.

Above all, thanks for teaching your son how to hunt. It sounds like you are a great guy trying to do good. Good luck to you both in the future.

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

Walking by a feeder is not hunting over bait. If they were there, they know you didn't hunt over bait.

Either that or your 300 yards wasn't the 900 feet you thought it was.

More reasons why folks distrust LEO.

Actually, it is.

From the Arkansas Turkey Hunting Regulations.

• Wild turkeys may not be hunted over bait. An area
is considered baited if any food (including shelled,
shucked or unshucked corn, chops, wheat or other
feed that could serve as a lure or attractant for
wildlife) is present or has been present in the last
10 days. (An area is considered baited for 10 days
following complete removal of the bait.) A hunter
is liable for a baiting violation if he or she knows,
or reasonably should know, that the area is or has
been baited, even following complete removal of
bait. There is no set distance from a baited site that a
hunter may shoot a turkey.


The regulations aren't in place to only prevent you from setting up within shotgun range of the bait, although that's part of it. They are in place to prevent you from using bait to congregate turkeys to an area making them much easier to locate and kill. More folks should learn the actual regulations before distrusting LEO.

 

[Squincher]

Actually, it is.

From the Arkansas Turkey Hunting Regulations.

• Wild turkeys may not be hunted over bait. An area
is considered baited if any food (including shelled,
shucked or unshucked corn, chops, wheat or other
feed that could serve as a lure or attractant for
wildlife) is present or has been present in the last
10 days. (An area is considered baited for 10 days
following complete removal of the bait.) A hunter
is liable for a baiting violation if he or she knows,
or reasonably should know, that the area is or has
been baited, even following complete removal of
bait. There is no set distance from a baited site that a
hunter may shoot a turkey.


The regulations aren't in place to only prevent you from setting up within shotgun range of the bait, although that's part of it. They are in place to prevent you from using bait to congregate turkeys to an area making them much easier to locate and kill. More folks should learn the actual regulations before distrusting LEO.

No ignorant, knee jerk reactions? What are you trying to do, kill the internet?

 

[TFrank]

I haven’t read through all the comments.

it sounds like you dealt with receiving the citation well as far as interacting with the wardens. Although it seems inconvenient, court is the time to formulate arguments. If you are told you are receiving a citation you are going to get one regardless of your excuses on scene.

often when people do go to court they go there with nothing but their story. It helps to have evidence if you have a strong case to support your points. Maps and distances, relevant state law printed out etc. although it doesn’t hurt to say you “didn’t” know, but ignorance will not get your case dismissed.

If you are in fact in violation due to the vagueness of the law/LE discretion (hard to beat) than really your course as I see it would be to argue how a reasonable person would interpret the vague law (with supportive evidence).

Does the bait attract turkeys to the land? Yes, but does a reasonable person shoot a Turkey at 300 yards? Probably not. Just an example. Basically arguing your intent.

not sure on the game wardens access to the property as some comments stated. I would assume they could lawfully be there. But assuming makes you an ass.

Sounds like a hard one. An attorney isn't a bad idea. This isn’t formal legal advice either lol.

 

[MallardSX2]

I wish they would make you dump all of the corn a month before turkey season and not fill them until the day after turkey season.

People are pulling birds off my lease in GA because of this very issue. I would be willing to bet that the people across the line have turned your club in for hunting over the feeder to set the tone...

I realize you dont have any control over what other members do in your club but I would suggest setting up a meeting to explain the situation.

 

[Gunnersdad49]

With regards to the wardens and their legal standing on private property:

Consider this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-fields_doctrine

Also, "The Arkansas Game and Fish Commission warns that armed wildlife officers may at any time enter "any property outside of private dwellings, posted or otherwise, in the performance of their duties," and detain anyone they reasonably suspect of hunting, trapping, or doing anything else that affects the region's wildlife." source: https://www.newsmax.com/FastFeature...e and Fish,that affects the region's wildlife.

 

[Billy Goat]

When you go to court tell them it was deer corn. The bag said so.


If you were baiting turkeys you would have used bird feed.
Wheat works well too.

 

[KurtR]

So what if one land owner sets up on the edge of another land owners lease and baits does that make it so the guy who has no control on what his neighbor is doing not able to hunt? Seems it would as the area is baited even though its not on your land and by the letter of the law you should not hunt it.

 

[cjl32]

I don't know about this particular feeder, but most I have seen do not actually empty completely before it stops throwing. There is some corn or whatever left that won't make it to the funnel and spinner unless the feeder is shook or jerked around. The feeder could be considered "inactive" for some time and if someone bumped or shook the feeder to see if there was still corn in it, it could make the feeder "active" again for a few spins. Seems plausible the wardens could have shook the feeder to ascertain that the feeder did in fact have corn, dropping some corn on ground, and made the feeder "active" when in fact it hasn't been in some time. All speculation of course.

Some people have solar panels and let the feeder continue to spin during the year without filling. The thought is that keeping everything working and moving all year is better than letting it sit in the weather until early fall and rusting/seizing up.

 

[Sam Colt]

So what if one land owner sets up on the edge of another land owners lease and baits does that make it so the guy who has no control on what his neighbor is doing not able to hunt? Seems it would as the area is baited even though its not on your land and by the letter of the law you should not hunt it.

This is true, and often enforced for migratory birds such as dove.

 

[MallardSX2]

So what if one land owner sets up on the edge of another land owners lease and baits does that make it so the guy who has no control on what his neighbor is doing not able to hunt? Seems it would as the area is baited even though its not on your land and by the letter of the law you should not hunt it.

In GA is a neighboring landowner is baiting and it "impeded" the hunting of your land then you have the right to contact the DNR and they will approach that landowner and take action.

 

[FLAK]

Getting ticketed for walking by an active feeder, I would say is Definitely not within the "Spirit of the Law".

 

[KurtR]

In GA is a neighboring landowner is baiting and it "impeded" the hunting of your land then you have the right to contact the DNR and they will approach that landowner and take action.

What is considered impeding? Seems way to open for interpretation . What if the other land owner does not hunt just likes to have turkeys and animals around? It seems there should either bait nothing or bait every thing to get rid of the gray area.

 

[Rich M]

Actually, it is.

From the Arkansas Turkey Hunting Regulations.

• Wild turkeys may not be hunted over bait. An area
is considered baited if any food (including shelled,
shucked or unshucked corn, chops, wheat or other
feed that could serve as a lure or attractant for
wildlife) is present or has been present in the last
10 days. (An area is considered baited for 10 days
following complete removal of the bait.) A hunter
is liable for a baiting violation if he or she knows,
or reasonably should know, that the area is or has
been baited, even following complete removal of
bait. There is no set distance from a baited site that a
hunter may shoot a turkey.


The regulations aren't in place to only prevent you from setting up within shotgun range of the bait, although that's part of it. They are in place to prevent you from using bait to congregate turkeys to an area making them much easier to locate and kill. More folks should learn the actual regulations before distrusting LEO.

Your regulation sucks for you guys cause it doesn't define what the "area" is. "No set distance" LOL!

You can be anywhere and get a hunting over bait citation. Yup - yer laws suck.

 

[sndmn11]

Getting ticketed for walking by an active feeder, I would say is Definitely not within the "Spirit of the Law".

Waking by it only in and of itself? Maybe not.

Waking by it on a private lease of which you are a member, admitting knowledge of it being illegal, doing nothing other than continuing to hunt, and choosing to then walk back by it again continuing to hunt.

Even though the information posted above doesn't make intent an element of the violation, all of those actions show the intent to hunt the area. Had he walked by it the first time, and then fastidiously called authorities to report the baiting of turkeys, he would have some soft ground to possibly stand on. THAT would have been a great example for the youngster showing him that poachers shouldn't be tolerated.

 

[MallardSX2]

What is considered impeding? Seems way to open for interpretation . What if the other land owner does not hunt just likes to have turkeys and animals around? It seems there should either bait nothing or bait every thing to get rid of the gray area.

I will let you read.

Baiting Regulations - Georgia Hunting

Hunt any game or feral hog over bait, or place bait, on any State or Federal managed lands. Exceptions for Deer and Feral Hogs: Deer and feral hogs may be…

www.eregulations.com

 

[KurtR]

I will let you read.

Baiting Regulations - Georgia Hunting

Hunt any game or feral hog over bait, or place bait, on any State or Federal managed lands. Exceptions for Deer and Feral Hogs: Deer and feral hogs may be…

www.eregulations.com

Ya i have already read those and it still seems way to much of an area of interpretation. Walking past a feeder sound not constitute hunting over bait.