Broadheads absolutely will not tune to FPs

[3forks]

Like I said before, if you shoot a group of field points and broadheads nd they shoot as tight as your field point group you are good to go. I cant shoot a 2" group at 60yds with my field points everytime,so I dont expect to with broadheads, I can, however, shoot a 4-5" group at 60 yds, so if I shoot 2 field points and 2 broadheads in a 4" group at 60yds I am satisfied. Again, this pertains to ME and my standards that I follow.

I'd take this a step further and suggest that a person's limitations in tuning or technique will determine their effective range. At longer distances, flaws in technique or a limited ability to understand tuning are magnified.

If your 2 broadheads of the 4 arrow / 4" group your're shooting at 60 yards are continually hitting at the same place, you could probably make a slight tweak that could get you to 2" group. If a person didn't know how make that tuning adjustment, he'd maybe never get a smaller group even if his technique was solid. I'm not knocking your philosophy at all, just adding to your point about the standards we all set for ourselves.

 

[bmart2622]

What Im getting that is my bow is tuned better than I can shoot it and I agree if I put 4 arrows 2" to the left at 60yds I would probably move my sight. My arrows hit in a 4" group around the bullseye which equals a dead bull all day long. Now at 20, 30, 40... my arrows are touching. Groups just open up as distance increases, just like they do with a rifle. Most people can shoot a 1" group at a 100yds but that group opens up at 4, 5, 600yds.....hence why people strive to shoot MOA groups

 

[457121]

I would guess close to 80% of bowhunters use a bow that is out of tune to hunt with. The reason mechanical broadheads exist is because the majority of people want to simply screw on a broadheads and hunt. It's the marketing slogan for the number one seller.

Most everyone used to adjust their sights to BH point of impact 20 years ago when no one knew better. A lot of shops and archers still do. Doesn't make it right or better.

There is no theory involved, it is simple physics. Two identical projectiles in flight, one flying more straight than the other will have superior performance. I have more confidence in my set up when I get my bow shooting as best I can. To me that includes as perfect arrow flight as I'm capable.

I have yet to own a bow that I can't tune BH's to field points. Tuning bows is actually easy, unless there is something mechanical flaw in the bow. Mechanical flaws are pretty rare. The adjustments are small and take less than 5 minutes. What is not easy is shooting a bow in a correct, repeatable manner. That is only easy on archery talk where droves of people could win Vegas or a Fita world championship if they only had the desire to compete.

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I started bowhunting in '82 with a recurve. Got my 1st compound in '89. In 1994 I bought a Oneida Areo Force that shot 244fps @80# with a 630gr. arrow and for the first time my 4 blade BH's didn't hit with my FP's. I thought the bow was too fast causing the BH's to wind plane (LOL). Switched to Rothhaar Snuffer 3 blades and got good flight but they still didn't hit with my FP's but were closer than the 4 blades. I just thought that's the way it is and proceeded to stack up deer, elk, and bear with pass through's a plenty. Shot an 80# Martin Scepter 2 (same arrow @ 252fps) from '98-'06, same thing with not having BH's and FP's hit together. Never heard of bareshaft, walk back, or French tuning. Just moved my sight and killed stuff. That heavy arrow and CoC BH's passed through 95% of the time despite what I now realize was crappy tune. Now I bareshaft tune after finding out about it on the internet in '07.

 

[IdahoHntr]

I would guess close to 80% of bowhunters use a bow that is out of tune to hunt with. The reason mechanical broadheads exist is because the majority of people want to simply screw on a broadheads and hunt. It's the marketing slogan for the number one seller.

Most everyone used to adjust their sights to BH point of impact 20 years ago when no one knew better. A lot of shops and archers still do. Doesn't make it right or better.

There is no theory involved, it is simple physics. Two identical projectiles in flight, one flying more straight than the other will have superior performance. I have more confidence in my set up when I get my bow shooting as best I can. To me that includes as perfect arrow flight as I'm capable.

I have yet to own a bow that I can't tune BH's to field points. Tuning bows is actually easy, unless there is something mechanical flaw in the bow. Mechanical flaws are pretty rare. The adjustments are small and take less than 5 minutes. What is not easy is shooting a bow in a correct, repeatable manner. That is only easy on archery talk where droves of people could win Vegas or a Fita world championship if they only had the desire to compete.

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You mention physics and two identical projecticles, but aerodynamically we are talking about two VERY different projectiles. I always find it interesting that everybody is so entranced with having their broadheads hit with their field points when in reality, they have very different aerodynamics. It's especially interesting to me because when its a bullet coming out of a gun, hunters pay a large amount of detail to the very little differences of the aerodynamics of their bullets, but then when they are shooting a bow they suddenly think two very different aerodynamic objects have to hit the exact same place to be tuned. It doesn't make much sense to me. The most important thing is that you shoot the best groups possible with your broadheads. I shoot broadheads most of the time and so tuning to field points happens from time to time, but it isn't as important to me as shooting as tight of groups with my broadheads as possible. Believe it or not, this doesn't always happen when broadheads and field points are hitting together. Shoot your broadheads more and you will know when that bow is tuned.

 

[RosinBag]

This topic is so overrated. It doesn’t make any difference if they hit in the same spot. If you can group your broad heads out to your maximum effective distance then you are good to go.

And broadheads won’t group with field points at all distances, it is impossible. You could tune your bow for them to hit the same at 30ish, but the broadheads will be low at 80ish. Or you could tune them together at 80ish and the will be high at 30ish.

I have shot both through chronograph at 20 yards and 80 yards and the broadheads are loosing speed exponentially compared to field points.

Pick a good broadhead that you can group at your effective range and be happy. By two identical sights that mount in the same dovetail. One for broadheads and one for dirledpoints.

 

[Ironman8]

Anyone have any info on shimming cams? How to do it? Where to get shims, ect?

I have the same problem as the op, but I can’t get my BH any closer than 2” to my FP at 20 yds. Tried just about everything with rest and yokes of my Hoyt CST. Also, as I make changes to my rest to hit BH’s at center, my FP’s start to “walk” as you move back on a walk back tune...which was originally shooting perfect. FWIW, I was shooting field points POA/POI our to 100 with good results.

My setup:
2014 Hoyt CST
73# @ 27.5” DL
BE Rampage 300 spine arrows cut to 27.5”
175gr total point weight
Four fletch
BH this year is the slick trick viper trick

 

[Ironman8]

Ok so wanted to share some results from a walkback tune that I did with both FPs and BHs. See my bow and arrow specs above. I'm having the same issue as the OP with getting BHs to tune with FPs.

First Walkback was with FPs (distance was from 20yds to 45yds in 5yd increments):

Second Walkback was with BHs (distance was from 20yds to 40yds in 5 yd increments...orange pasters represent shots 20-35yds):

I consider these "groups" at each range to be within my shooting ability, arrow flight appears to be straight and last BH @ 40 (second pic) looks like it entered as straight as can be.

I leave next week for my hunt, so at this point, I'm just moving my sight and being done with it. Any rest movement I do will affect both FP & BH flight and likely change the results of the walkback tune.

That said, If I had the time (and desire haha) to tune this the way everyone on the dang internet says they can be tuned, what would you do? If we can agree that walkback tuning is a viable method to check centershot and true arrow flight, then what other changes can be made to bring the arrows together???

 

[larryschwartz]

For the OP, you said that you changed things around because your arrow length and draw length were incorrect, even though they tuned perfectly. WHO told you they were incorrect? If they flew where you aimed them and hit the target at a right angle at all distances they were fine!

I hope that someone didn't tell you that your DL had to be 28" or your arrows had to be some specific length. That is all BS. Everyone is different and your DL and AL depend your body dimensions.

Larry

 

[bohntr]

This topic is so overrated. It doesn’t make any difference if they hit in the same spot. If you can group your broad heads out to your maximum effective distance then you are good to go.

And broadheads won’t group with field points at all distances, it is impossible. You could tune your bow for them to hit the same at 30ish, but the broadheads will be low at 80ish. Or you could tune them together at 80ish and the will be high at 30ish.

I have shot both through chronograph at 20 yards and 80 yards and the broadheads are loosing speed exponentially compared to field points.

Pick a good broadhead that you can group at your effective range and be happy. By two identical sights that mount in the same dovetail. One for broadheads and one for dirledpoints.

Yup!

 

[wapitibob]

Dbl yep

 

[SKYNET KC]

Weird how when I was shooting a compound I could shoot 3 different broadheads with very different profiles, as well as my field points in a group at 80 yards.

 

[Whisky]

Triple yup!

Last spring I decided to quit chasing my tail and sight in for broad heads after an acceptable level of tuning had been done. Now I regularly practice with broad heads. Confidence has never been higher. More time shooting and less time screwing with crap.

 

[Brendan]

I always tune my bow to get broadheads, field points hitting the same - mainly because it hasn't been that hard to get them all hitting together (Except to Doug's point - drop at long ranges with bigger fixed blades that have more drag is Physics, 80+ mainly, but I don't shoot at animals past that...) I like to be able shoot a field point, mechanical, fixed blade, and not worry about sighting in, different dovetails, or any of that crap.

Food for thought - this is from Tim Gillingham if you don't want to believe me....

Bare Shaft/Broadhead Tuning: This is the final step of my tuning and isn’t 100% necessary but I believe it is optimal. Shooting a bare shaft and a fletch shaft to the same impact point at 20 yards just allows you to see if the power stroke of the string is indeed driving dead center of the shaft. It will be easier to accomplish with heavier points and softer shafts but you can bare shaft tune the stiffest, most sensitive setups with just a little more tuning knowledge. This will allow the vanes to be as efficient as possible in correcting your mistakes. You may find that the tune looks like a bullet hole through paper but in fact when you shoot the bare shaft down range it impacts to the right of your fletched arrow or in the case of broadheads they hit to the right of the field point. This just simply tells me I have a little left tear left in the bow and I need to make the corrections for a left tear. Maybe left yoke twists, lessen the load on the cable guard (Tilt Tamer is helpful for this), move the rest in towards the riser or even adjust the wheel spacing slightly. The only thing you have to remember is the bare shaft/broadhead tipped shaft will react opposite of the paper tear, so all you have to do is remember the paper tuning guidelines. Using a target point as long as the Broadhead will help make this process more precise because it will affect the reaction of the shaft and how the string loads the arrow.

 

[2blade]

I'm with Brendan. All it takes is a little time to get it right and Tim Gillingham has nailed exactly how to do it, providing you start with the correct spined set up to start with. Over this last week, I took a Turmoil RZ that had broadheads hitting 5" to the right at 30 yards to bare shaft, field point, and broadhead all hitting together at 30 yards. I'll fine tune it out to 50 before its over, broadheads & field tips to 80, but the point is, it can be done.

 

[benz1978]

My own personal experience with bh tuning... After working hours chasing my tail doing this... Reading dozens of articles from all of the "experts". Moving the rest, tweaking my arrows, adjusting yokes, draw length. What I finally concluded is that I was the problem. Took the grip off my Hoyt and had it tuned in < an hour. Before you make any more changes to your bow or arrow... Try adjusting your grip. See if the bh poi moves. If it does, the bow may be fine and you need to work on the Indian.

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[jmez]

My experience has been that bows are easy to tune. Shooting them correctly and consistently is the hard part. It is rarely an "equipment" issue when I'm having problems.

 

[Jtelarkin08]

For the last 5 days I've been trying for the life of me to get my broadheads to lineup with my field points and no matter what I do they won't tune closer than 1 inch apart windage at 20 yards. Elevation is perfect. Spine is correct, centershot is correct, cams are correctly timed, etc. Both my field tips and broadheads are grouping sub 1 MOA out to 60 yards. The groups are several inches apart at that distance though (FPs are way left and BHs are center). I'm incredibly frustrated. They used to tune fine back when my arrows and draw length were a little longer (and incorrect). I've tried adjusting my draw weight up and down and adjusting the rest both directions horizontally at every poundage and nothing closes the 1 inch gap at 20 yards. Shooting a bowtech carbon knight at 28" inch draw, 68 lbs, 27.5" FMJ 340 with a 100gr slick trick. This isnt a huge issue as my broadheads are shooting great groups at long distances but it's super annoying when I want to shoot just field tips out to 80 yards and they're grouping within a couple inches but barely hitting the left side of the target. Any ideas?

That scenario is the easiest fix ever.. You say center shot is correct.. Well center shot on a bow usually varies between .75 to .821 inches.. just move your rest until your arrows are together.. I would bet after doing that it is fixed and your center shot is still in spec. .