Border Wall and Wildlife

[Wrench]

A country without laws isn't going to last. A country without jaguars will.

Having lived through the spotted owl debacle and the woodland caribou racket....we learned that animals deserve a lot more credit than we give them.

They told us owls won't find a new tree.....but it will nest in a yarder no problem.

Usfw tried at least 2x to transplant caribou....and once they all died, the other they all went to Canada and stayed.....even though the habitat was totally wrong.

We HAVE to stop the cash hemorrhage that illegal border activities are responsible for. If we reduce the amount by 50% it'll be worth it.

Why people want to have people in their country who won't respect the laws of the land, and actually fight fellow Americans for the rights of those who won't do it legally are so foreign to me that I just can't get it.

 

[Okhotnik]

Well, that’s the thing about the Trumpian hardliners: Trump told them they would get their wall and, Goddamnit, they want that wall no matter what -anything else, including logic and reason be damned. A wall is tangible and their minds seem to be incapable of grasping any solution that’s not immediate and physically perceptible. The wall seems like a very simple solution to a very complex and ever changing problem, ignoring that it’s a archaic solution and making lazy, half-wit analogies to backyard fences and drywall houses with sliding doors as examples of effectiveness.

So when Obama was building a wall and actually putting children in cages you were silent. TFF

Sounds like you have a lot of experience with border security

 

[isu22andy]

This is rokslide, we are all hunters , not peta going to preserve all of them forever. I get conservation is key of our roll as hunters, but a wall isnt going to effect animals as much as an illegal alien/s effecting your home life. ..How many bull dozers, roads, cities ect effect animals but yet they adapt and overcome . Life will go on.

 

[upslope 50]

How many species are actually migrating in homogeneous desert habitat? Not many, and the ones that do, can fly. Wolves have plenty of habitat on both AZ and NM side as well as MX. Jaguars best habitat is way south of the border. Any occurrences in US are not breeding populations (stragglers, like a cougar in MO) and are statistically not significant enough to even think of an ESA impact evaluation. I don't see any meta-populations of unique genetics that are indigenous spatially to the exact border that cant carry on, on one side or the other. There is plenty of water for the animals along the Rio Grande to be diverted and used for wildlife. Natives have been flood irrigating the region before either side was a country. Ranchers aren't limited to the river corridor because of springs, solar wells, etc. If there's cattle, there's damn sure water. While a wall isn't exactly wildlife friendly, they would be just fine.
I thought about this early in the policy talk. Some of the most beautiful country Iv'e wanted to hunt Coues deer in is just too dangerous. NM's bootheel is amazing for Goulds turkey, coues, desert BHS, coatimundi, mule deer, javelina, quail and more. Unfortunately, its like having part of your own back yard that is off limits. Iv'e run into mules once in the hills and will never take my family there. It would be a long sleepless night camping out in a tent. There's nothing more dangerous then a desperate man and there's evidence everywhere that they are hiding among you. Its' time we take it back. We shouldn't be forfeiting a buffer zone of our own soil.

 

[elkstabber]

I live in Virginia and like most people here had no firsthand knowledge of the problems until recently. In January I hunted Coues deer near the border with Mexico.

What I saw surprised me. Two things stood out.

1.) The ranchers in the area were descendants of the original homesteaders. They couldn't be more American. Their ranches are on American soil. Yet these American ranchers had fled their ranches. They didn't leave because of drought or a better job offer in a city. They left because the cartel's presence made it too dangerous to stay. Over 90% of the ranches were unoccupied, except for maybe immigrants passing through and spending the night (or day) in an outbuilding. My personal opinion is that these Americans that own property in America deserve a wall that will give them the protection that they need to move back home.

2.) There was a lot of trash in some areas. Not like dumped trash, but more like things that the immigrants no longer needed as they were passing through. It was mostly discarded water jugs and even torn clothing in some cases. They are only passing through this area and have little to no regard for our laws.

Since buying a farm 14 years ago (in Virginia) I've had trouble with trespassers. I prosecuted a couple that drove on with guns. But trespassers were still a problem until I put up a fence. That's right, a simple 4' woven wire fence. A person could cross it if they wanted to but it stopped almost all of the problems with trespassers.

What would a border wall accomplish? It will make it a lot harder for illegal people to do illegal things in America. Right now the Border Patrol has to use helicopters, drones, remote sensors, trail cams, etc and they have to cover 50 miles or so inside of the border. My friends and I were clearly being observed by Border Patrol's helicopters and drones on several occasions. I think a border wall would make it easier (and less expensive) for the Border Patrol because they would only have to watch the wall and maybe a mile or so inside. I see a cost savings to the US taxpayers.

For the OP's questions about the wall and wildlife: it would be tricky, especially near the Rio Grande. Building a wall would be easy in some areas, difficult in others, and nearly impossible in others. Since the wildlife already depends on the Rio Grande in that area and since the canyons all drain toward the river it would make sense to build ponds inside of the wall. This would solve the water problem for cattle and wildlife. Drains/culverts would have to be built in the wall in to allow water to flow to the Rio Grande. The wall would interfere with the natural travel patterns of wildlife.

Similarly, the fence around my farm restricts wildlife travel. The turkeys walk along the fence because they don't want to fly over it. Even deer walk along it even though they could jump it easily. Black bears rarely cross the fence. Coyotes rarely jump it but will dig under it, which is kind of my point. When a coyote digs under the fence it makes a great place for me to set a snare. I'll usually snare a coyote within 2 days. It's much more effective than hole set traps or any other traps that I've used.

Similarly to me trapping coyotes, the Border Patrol would be more efficient in catching illegal immigrants if there was a border wall.

I think a border wall will allow Border Patrol to do their job more effectively, saving taxpayer dollars. To be clear, I think American should permit new immigrants to our country every day, but should not permit illegal immigrants.

 

[Tod osier]

To try to keep on track... the wall is not good for wildlife, especially those with small, remnant or fragmented populations. From my position I'd prefer a build with consideration for wildlife movement - that would make a wall more expensive and less effective.

 

[ColoradoBackpackHunter]

It adapted once.....just sayin'....

The adaptation to that environment most likely occurred over a long period. Barriers that stop genetic flow reduce the number of genetic variants in each population and make them more susceptible to disease and other factors. Im not terribly well read on genetics so I hope that make sense. Having a variety of genetic variants may be the reason the deer populations will not collapse from CWD. There is genetic work being done in Colorado on genetics on deer and CWD and there may be an allele that provides some sort of barrier of transmission in this population. Again, not talking politics just looking at real world effects based on what I've seen and read.

 

[JWP58]

And a wall that takes a few minutes to cut through is going to stop a criminal human trafficking? Or the many tunnels that will go under it. The existing wall, which does not even cover the border, that people can go around has been breached over 9000 times in 5 years. Sounds like 10's of billions would be better spent on other ways to stop illegal immigration.

You are correct, steel encased concrete is very easily cut through with hand tools. I guess we shouldn't even try then. Thanks for changing my mind.

 

[tdhanses]

What really irritates me is we spend 10x as much on illegals claiming asylum then the wall costs, yet people act like the wall is expensive. Heck the dems in the last budget bill had over $50 billion in aid for countries that hate America yet no one complains about that cost.

I’m all for a wall, increasing judges, holding centers, technology improvements and changing our laws to no longer accept asylum seekers. Call me a heartless ass but what are you when your fellow American is murder by someone that has no right to be in this country.

Legal immigration is perfectly fine. We have many problems in this country and none will be solved by one thing but to those that say a wall will do nothing I ask that you please remove the doors to your home, fences around your yard or property. If you are ok for open borders then you should be ok for your home to be open to all without your permission, oh and you as the owner are on the hook for all taxes, repairs etc to keep the property up and liable for anyone hurt while on your property, if you think this is silly yet are not for closing off our borders I’ll never understand that. Maybe some people just need to be personally effected by this situation before they see the reality.

While I’m all for wildlife conservation, that doesn’t matter to me here but I bet a wall would be beneficial there as well as you would have less traffic by those that toss trash everywhere and could careless about the environment.

 

[*zap*]

If you do not realize that a physical barrier will impede the flow of illegal immigrants into the country you have a condition that cannot be fixed.

 

[ColoradoBackpackHunter]

Not Facebook but still applies.

 

[Brendan]

View attachment 88267
Not Facebook but still applies.

This is a lot of Rokslide posts in a nutshell lately....

 

[Poser]

So when Obama was building a wall and actually putting children in cages you were silent. TFF

Sounds like you have a lot of experience with border security

The Border Defense Act of 2006 that Obama voted for under the Bush admin and construction carried over into his admin was 700 miles of fencing. I don’t recall campaign promises of “The Great Wall of China” nor a vote on such an archaic idea. I never voted for Obama and I did vote for Trump. If you read my earlier post, I said that strategic fencing has application. I’m glad to know you know so much about my positions and knowledge. I hope your backyard fence and your pane glass windows continue to hold firm against any determined intruder into your home.

 

[TJ]

Just look just look at that narco terrorist douche bag of a rapist. Makes my blood boil.

 

[TJ]

So when Obama was building a wall and actually putting children in cages you were silent. TFF

Sounds like you have a lot of experience with border security

Do you actually have a source for this tidbit?

 

[Wrathchild]

This is a lot of Rokslide posts in a nutshell lately....

We’ll get back to more important stuff once people are back to hunting and fishing.

 

[*zap*]

That kid needs to be raised in the country he was born in and if born here by an illegal he needs to be raised in the country the mother was from. If people want to live here because it is the greatest country in the world there is a legal way to do that or they can make changes in their own country.

 

[tdhanses]

View attachment 88283


Just look just look at that narco terrorist douche bag of a rapist. Makes my blood boil.

Yeah now put an MS13 gang member in that same pic. Sucks that these kids are being used, remove asylum and this stops as well.

 

[tdhanses]

Do you actually have a source for this tidbit?

Believe it happened under Obama. But yes kids are USED everyday sadly by illegals.

 

[ColoradoBackpackHunter]

We should have a political thread that just constantly runs so the politicians here can get it out of their system.