Border Wall and Wildlife

[5MilesBack]

It’s mostly marijuana. What a stupid thing to ruin the desert, kill people, and make public land unsafe over. Legalize it and you cut off the cartel’s ability to traffic it.

There are no easy answers. Many conservatives are a long ways from easing off the drug war and liberals will never agree to securing the border.

In Colorado we have legalized pot, and the illegal pot grows and trade is booming like crazy. So legalizing pot doesn't make the illegal side of it go away, or even reduce it.

 

[MtGomer]

This is from a lookout point over a smuggling route 80 miles from the border outside Maricopa. I can actually see the lights of Chandler and Awhatukee from this spot.

 

[MtGomer]

I have hundreds of pictures like the one above of trash, water bottles, backpacks, abandoned 4 wheelers in wilderness, camo clothes, food, water caches, batteries, radios, cell phones etc.

This is their view from that lookout point. You can see why they use it

 

[MtGomer]

Indeed, the trash left behind in that country is nothing short of staggering, an eco-disaster of epic proportions.

Also, one has to wonder how much of the wildlife has been killed for food or just out or sheer happenstance and opportunity. It's not like a sizable portion of the coyotes and armed travelers care about U.S. laws.

Interesting thread.

In the Ironwood monument, smugglers have been documented killing, cooking and eating desert tortoises.

 

[*zap*]

Just Build It! I do not care to hear any new spin on how it is bad, thanks anyway.

 

[JWP58]

In Colorado we have legalized pot, and the illegal pot grows and trade is booming like crazy. So legalizing pot doesn't make the illegal side of it go away, or even reduce it.

Also, it's not "mostly pot". Its primarily now methamphetamine, heroin, and fentanyl. Marijuana production is beginning to switch to poppy grows due to the prevalence of high quality marijuana being grown in the states (like CA, CO, etc). Large scale production of methamphetamine (high quality at that) in mexico has replaced home brewers in the states for the most part. Labs are quite rare now. It's much more lucrative if you have access to incredibly large amounts of the hard to get ingredients (see the restriction on purchasing psuedoephedrine in the states)

But ya sure. I'd like to see all that stuff legalized too. But I suspect since cartels are criminal enterprises they probably wont just stop selling illegal things and become upstanding citizens. But that's me being sinical.

I would like to see our elected reps allow .Gov agencies to do their jobs, and make a real effort to enforce our border and the rule of law, instead of virtue signaling to the radical minority of the country.

 

[MtGomer]

Meth, heroin and fentanyl are concealable and expensive. They’re mainly coming through the ports, not being backpacked by smugglers for 80 miles, very often. Where I’m at it IS mostly pot. There’s a spot a ten minute drive from where I’m at right now that the pot smuggling is so thick there is burlap and plastic wrap discarded from marijuana bales as they were loaded onto trucks, which have blown in the wind and stuck to grease woods visible from to travelers on I-8.

 

[MuleyFever]

If you think a wall will actually stop people from coming across your delusional. Drug traffickers especially. Its quite easy to move product over, under, and through any wall. Trumps 8 prototypes were all breached. Its billions wasted in addition to the mentioned environmental impact.

I don't know the answer but I don't believe its a wall. Until we take away the desire to come here illegally it won't stop.

 

[*zap*]

Take the $ from elchumpo and build the wall.

 

[JWP58]

Actually right now at the street level meth and heroin are incredibly cheap, due to the increased flow into the states. Of course it does fluctuate from region to region. This just based of what I've seen on recent seizures and briefings.

A barrier is just a tool in the tool box. We need sweeping reform in legislation, prosecution, enforcement, and other incentives to come here (ie free stuff).

 

[Justin Crossley]

An interesting thing to consider. I'll admit I haven't thought about the impact it would have on the animals.

Like a few others have mentioned, I don't believe the border wall/barrier is going to be continuous so I'm sure there would be ways to allow animals through while deterring illegal crossings.

To the guys who think a wall won't be a good tool to keep the border secure. Do you not have fences? Do you not lock your front door or car doors? Criminals can defeat all those things but we use them as deterrents along with having police and other means to protect from illegal entry.

I don't think a wall/fence/barrier by itself will solve anything but I believe it's a critical tool.

Also, consider that once someone steps foot on US soil they have certain rights even if they are arrested. I think we need to do EVERYTHING we can to stop people from stepping foot here illegally along with enforcing our laws to the fullest when they do.

 

[tdhanses]

Build the wall and keep Jaguars out!!!

 

[Takem]

Too me this is a good question. It seems like they should at least be collaring animals to see where the most important migration corridors are put in some kind of crossings. They would obviously need to be monitored by the border patrol.

I can imagine the frustration with trash. I've worked around plenty of guys not far removed from Mexico and to generalize they can be pigs. From throwing trash on the ground to pouring gas and oil into sensitive areas as a group they are not too concerned with the environment if at all.

 

[Poser]

I think the concept of “the wall” may have been more applicable some years ago (25+), however, with the direction of technology, I would think the “the wall” that gives the far right a hard-on (a wall that stretches the entire border) to be entirely archaic in the face of drone technology. I keep hearing the “why do you think prisons work” argument, for example, (and never mind the fact that comparing a contained infrastructure of a couple of dozen acres to a linear border several thousand miles long is about as simple-minded stupid of an argument that anyone could come up with, but I digress) prisons are already having on going problems with drones delivering drugs. What happens when drones can deliver people? What happens when this technology is cheaper than hiring coyotes and miles to do the drug and human trafficking?

Then we have the issue of eminent domain, which, if you are a hardline conservative, should be alarming unto itself, but if you have a hard-on for “the wall”, you’re probably so far gone from being philosophically consistent that there’s no point in arguing that, but we’re talking a 10+ year court battles of seizing properties that could go as far as the Supreme Court, so, if “the wall” (the whole thing) construction was started tomorrow, you’d be lucky to see it completed by 2030 and it conceptually would be an outdated relic in the face of new technology and all of that even assumes that the next administration doesn’t pull the plug on the on going project (its laughable that there are people who think this wall will be completed in some short amount of time) to begin with.

Certainly, strategic wall placements are one piece of border security, but this concept of “the wall” as a single structure spanning the entire border will most certainly never be completed anyway.

 

[Rich M]

Just for context I had a dead battery on a hunt this year and border patrol response time was 2 days. An unguarded wall takes a minute to cross. There are tons of videos of this online. BP currently uses blimps and high altitude drones to monitor activity in these areas currently.

We won't have more migrating caravans of people if we have a wall.

Could you imagine the US setting a mine field? Animals don't set off the mines, people do. A simple mine field would solve a lot of issues.

In some instances, people and security should come first. Legal people, not lawless folks.

I don't care about the drug side of things - I want my grandchildren to have opportunity to enjoy the American Dream. Too many folks living on some kind of social program will ruin that.

The drug thing - why legalize it? You want to make it easier for folks to become addicts? If the government wanted to keep the drugs out they could but lots of money in it. Corruption at its finest.

 

[Sadler]

More harm comes to people without the wall than will come to animals with the wall. Build the damn wall.

 

[Okhotnik]

Meth, heroin and fentanyl are concealable and expensive. They’re mainly coming through the ports, not being backpacked by smugglers for 80 miles, very often. Where I’m at it IS mostly pot. There’s a spot a ten minute drive from where I’m at right now that the pot smuggling is so thick there is burlap and plastic wrap discarded from marijuana bales as they were loaded onto trucks, which have blown in the wind and stuck to grease woods visible from to travelers on I-8.

No

It’s mostly cocaine, meth and heroin. Having worked on the border I know this to be true. 20 years ago it was pot. Not anymore.

 

[Okhotnik]

Seeing as the majority of drugs are smuggled through points of entry, and most undocumented immigrants are here from overstayed visas, I wouldn't say the juice is worth the squeeze on a border wall.

The past few years more illegals have entered the country vs overstays

Technology is great. You can see illegals enter the country. Once they put feet on US soil they demand asylum.

 

[Okhotnik]

As this is a hunting forum I thought this the appropriate place to pose this question. I'd like to keep political beliefs about immigration/drugs/smuggling out of it if possible. As most of you already know, the Texas border with Mexico is outlined with the Rio Grande river. Many of these areas are extremely remote and utilized for cattle ranching and hunting. The corridor between Mexico and Texas is utilized by numerous animals including Mule Deer, Big Horn Sheep, Whitetail Deer, Mountain Lions, Mexican Grey Wolves, Black Bears, etc. Many of these animals are endangered and on the come back. Many of these animals rely on the river (as much of this area is desert) and migration corridor between Mexico and Texas. From my perspective and the perspective of folks who study these animals, a wall would be a big blow to the wildlife and set back years of wildlife management efforts. Additionally, many of the ranches survive from income derived from hunting/cattle which is dependent on the river. As hunters, what your opinion. Is the juice worth the squeeze? Thanks.

(For perspective this photo was taken 50 miles from the nearest city, 18 miles down a dirt road, the mountains are in Mexico and the river is about 500 yards from the dirt road)

What areas do big horn sheep migrate back and forth across the border? I’ve worked on border in remote areas and never witnessed this.

I did not know black bear, whitetail deer, cougar, mule deer were endangered. If they are so endangered why do we have hunting seasons for these animals??

 

[MtGomer]

If you think a wall will actually stop people from coming across your delusional. Drug traffickers especially. Its quite easy to move product over, under, and through any wall. Trumps 8 prototypes were all breached. Its billions wasted in addition to the mentioned environmental impact.

I don't know the answer but I don't believe its a wall. Until we take away the desire to come here illegally it won't stop.

But it might stop smugglers with AK-47s from driving F1 50s full of drugs across the border and into your hunting camp at 3 AM

No

It’s mostly cocaine, meth and heroin. Having worked on the border I know this to be true. 20 years ago it was pot. Not anymore.

I’m just going off what the Pinal County Sheriff office and local border patrol field agents have told me.