Blackhorn 209 hang fires

[sabotloader]

If the ones in the Video above are not hard Enough, How about these? These Speer Deep Curl Jacketed Bullets are .500, Here they are being Shot in my .501 Bore, These Bullets LITERALLY Fell Down my Bore with ZERO help frm my Rod, and as you can CLEARLY see Accuracy was STELLAR

Correct because the gas pressure forced them to obturate enough to grab the lands. If not then, again I would say why even shoot a barrel with lands - go smoothbore.

 

[Idaholewis]

What about those Lehigh Bullets you sent that i just Shot to 360 Yards in my Sidelock? I had those Sized EXACTLY the same, They BARELY touched the Lands, The Ramrod loaded them By itself, ZERO help from me

 

[Idaholewis]

Mike, YOU just said

“Try that same shooting techniques with with most copper/lead bullets and you would not be all that happy.”


I am showing you that i do this ALL the time, and I couldn’t be happier!!!

 

[sabotloader]

What about those Lehigh Bullets you sent that i just Shot to 360 Yards in my Sidelock? I had those Sized EXACTLY the same, They BARELY touched the Lands, The Ramrod loaded them By itself, ZERO help from me

Correct, they held the bore enough to guide the bullet down and back up - But on ignition the sabotless powder cup base expanded to fill the lands and grooves to hold pressure and impart rotation up the barrel.

The Gold Dots/Deep Curls react the same way because the copper on the bullet is very thin so on ignition the shank of the bullet is driven forward and the weight of the lead forces the copper to expand to the bore.

I also shoot flat base Lehigh's and Barnes solid copper bullets that I knurl to fit the bore of a given rifle. But I use a MMP sub base to seal the gas behind the bullet. The lands do cut a groove in the knurling when they are pushed through the crown and on the way down the bore. Ignition does not cause these bullet to obturate much at all but the since the bullet is fitted to the bore they do ride the bore (actually the lands) up the barrel to get the proper rotation to stabilize and be accurate

This picture shows cut knurling in the copper of the bullet - without these the bullet will drop tp the bottom of the barrel and the powder ignition does not have enough pressure to obturate the bullet.

You do believe that you must achieve the proper amount of rotation for a long bullet - especially the ones you are shooting - to be accurate - correct?

 

[Idaholewis]

You do believe that you must achieve the proper amount of rotation for a long bullet - especially the ones you are shooting - to be accurate - correct?

Mike, You have to be kidding me Right? How could i NOT know this Stuff? Have you not seen all of the Stuff i have been doing NONSTOP the last Few years with Muzzleloaders? I filled the MM Forum with it for a Couple of years. I have had a PILE of Custom Bullet Molds made to match the Rate of twist of Each of my Rifles. Surely i Haven’t Gotten Lucky with all of my Muzzleloaders? I have a LARGE Gun Safe COMPLETELY Full of them, Many are on My YouTube Channel in Action.

Long Range Shooting will Tattle on ANY little thing that isn’t Right!! Anyone that has done much of it knows this. Think about this, How am I getting away with Shooting These Muzzleloaders out to 600 Yards if I don’t know PRECISELY what i am Doing??? I just did it with 2 VERY VERY Different Rifles, and 2 VERY VERY Different Bullets. As the Videos Clearly Show, i Obviously knew what each Rifle needed.

 

[Idaholewis]

And that works well for you and many many others shooting soft lead bullets. But with obturation the bullets do expand in the barrel and tighten against the lands and grooves.

Try that same shooting techniques with with most copper/lead bullets and you would not be all that happy.

Actually in a way you already have when you got those hard lead No Excuse bullets that time.

This is where i have Been Showing you that you are Wrong.

You State:
“Try that same shooting techniques with with most copper/lead bullets and you would not be all that happy.”

I posted Videos Showing you how well it works, I Shot a BUNCH of LOOSE Fitting Jacketed Sabotless this last Winter with STELLAR results, in .45 and .50 Cal

I have NO IDEA what you mean about the “No Excuses” Bullets? I have never EVER Shot a “No Excuses” Bullet. All i did was Test Some of them for Hardness with my Cabin Tree Lead Hardness Tester, i did this for 2 Different Forum members that Sent Samples to me. If you remember that is When I found the Guy (No Excuses) Had Wheel weight Hard Bullets mixed with Softer Lead Bullets, a BIG BIG NO NO!! I would never advise those Bullets to anyone after Finding that. Some don’t know this, But Ron L also found a Wheel Weight Hard “No Excuses” Bullet mixed with Softer, But he Chose to Stay Quiet and Support the Mansion.

 

[rodney482]

Ive had zero isues out of my Encore Katadyn ML. Love the stuff

 

[5MilesBack]

BH209 will NEVER work for my Style of Target Shooting, Not just my Paper Patch, That would be ALL of my Bullets that i plan to Target shoot, as they are Sized .001 under Bore (I was taught this By WORLD Champion Shooters) And as everyone knows, i use and Swear by Wool Felt Wads, I use them pretty much Exclusively with Every Type of Bullet i shoot, From Lead, Jacketed, to Paper Patch.

It amazes me that Western Powders makes a Claim on their Website that Loose Fitting Bullets are Not Accurate??? Are you Joking me??? I have 2 Videos less than a Week apart of Me Shooting 600 Yards with 2 Different Rifles, Both with “Slip Fit” Bullets, Yet they aren’t accurate according to Western Powders??? UNREAL that they would make such a RIDICULOUS Claim!

So what exactly are you trying to say? In one sentence you say that BH will never work for you, and and then in the next paragraph you're saying you have videos of you shooting it 600 yards with great results. So does it work for you or doesn't it? Scratching my head here.

 

[ENCORE]

I have SEVERAL more Videos on my YouTube Channel from last Winter Shooting JACKETED Sabotless in my Sidelocks, Guess how they loaded?

You need to go back up to post #35 and read that again, especially the part: "No you don't not have a problem with accuracy because you are using real black powder which will fully ignite with or without pressure being applied."

You actually don't need a bullet at all in the barrel to make blackpowder go bang. That's how explosive it is compared to other propellants, including BH.

Here's a true story...…………. A guy I hunted with a couple decades ago, bought himself a new Knight MK85. He found that it shot the most accurate after the barrel was fouled with one shot.
The night before the season opened he had this great idea that he'd foul the barrel with just a charge of blackpowder without any bullet. Now he lived in the suburbs on a lot. His great idea was to just drop a 100gr charge down the bore and snap a cap. IN HIS CLOSED GARAGE!
Guess what happened? Well he had the barrel pointed up and when he "snapped that cap", that charge went off, busted one light bulb in his garage and sent his wife into complete shock. It damn near ended his ability to even own a firearm, as his wife was ready to divorce him.

Although this test isn't completed with BH, it show the explosiveness of blackpowder vs other substitutes.

DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!

testing blackpowder and substitutes - Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[Idaholewis]

So what exactly are you trying to say? In one sentence you say that BH will never work for you, and and then in the next paragraph you're saying you have videos of you shooting it 600 yards with great results. So does it work for you or doesn't it? Scratching my head here.

You obviously didn’t read the Thread. Show me where i said that BH209 Works for me?

I have NOT said ANYWHERE in this thread that BH209 Works for me, it does NOT Work for me!!! Real Blackpowder is what i shoot

 

[Idaholewis]

You need to go back up to post #35 and read that again, especially the part: "No you don't not have a problem with accuracy because you are using real black powder which will fully ignite with or without pressure being applied."

You actually don't need a bullet at all in the barrel to make blackpowder go bang. That's how explosive it is compared to other propellants, including BH.

Here's a true story...…………. A guy I hunted with a couple decades ago, bought himself a new Knight MK85. He found that it shot the most accurate after the barrel was fouled with one shot.
The night before the season opened he had this great idea that he'd foul the barrel with just a charge of blackpowder without any bullet. Now he lived in the suburbs on a lot. His great idea was to just drop a 100gr charge down the bore and snap a cap. IN HIS CLOSED GARAGE!
Guess what happened? Well he had the barrel pointed up and when he "snapped that cap", that charge went off, busted one light bulb in his garage and sent his wife into complete shock. It damn near ended his ability to even own a firearm, as his wife was ready to divorce him.

Although this test isn't completed with BH, it show the explosiveness of blackpowder vs other substitutes.

DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!

testing blackpowder and substitutes - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Mr Perry, Do you NOT think i know this about Real Blackpowder??? UNREAL!! I have stated NUMEROUS times that it will go off if you “think to hard” Meaning that it goes off VERY EASY. I have been talking about this from my beginning in Muzzleloading, Every Forum i have ever been on Will have me saying this

SIMPLE FACT is, BH209 Does NOT Work for me, and NEVER will with my Target Bullets. Yet YOU Mr Perry keep throwing little Tid bits in here implying that i am Wrong, Such as Bob Wetzler Shooting some Awful Easy Loading Paper Patch Bullets with no problem, That Doug Schwartz uses Wool felt. Then YOU talk about the Force required for BH209 to Reliably ignite, Rocket Science at it’s Finest here

FACT is i tried BH209 and it FAILED MISERABLY to Reliably ignite my Target Loads, i am DONE with BH209, i would be just as well off if this Can was full of GOOSE SH&T

 

[5MilesBack]

You obviously didn’t read the Thread. Show me where i said that BH209 Works for me?

I have NOT said ANYWHERE in this thread that BH209 Works for me, it does NOT Work for me!!! Real Blackpowder is what i shoot

If you're shooting real black powder, then why do you keep complaining about Western's claims of inaccuracy with loose projectiles, and then talk about your great success at 600 yards........which apparently has nothing to do with Western or BH209 if you're shooting real black powder. Still scratching my head. It sounds like you are in fact "confirming" their claims since it doesn't work for you.

 

[Idaholewis]

If you're shooting real black powder, then why do you keep complaining about Western's claims of inaccuracy with loose projectiles, and then talk about your great success at 600 yards........which apparently has nothing to do with Western or BH209 if you're shooting real black powder. Still scratching my head. It sounds like you are in fact "confirming" their claims since it doesn't work for you.

Good Lord!! READ the entire thread from the VERY Beginning. The OP is talking about Misfires with BH, i start by giving my hands on experience with it. The thread ends up straying off course

 

[Idaholewis]

“Its not for every rifle, nor is it for every shooter.”

George say’s it best above. Good place to leave it

 

[ENCORE]

Ok...………. BH doesn't work for you. We all get that. No one is arguing that it does or doesn't work for YOU.

It was explained numerous times why it likely did not work for the OP.

It was explained numerous times why it doesn't work for YOU.

You bash BH like a liberal, socialist, snowflake bashes the current President, yet your entire methods by your own admission, go against everything Western, or anyone else recommends associated with BH. Its NOT the propellants fault. Take that bottle of BH that you have and dispose of it properly and you'll be free of it (maybe).

So...……. if the OP will weed out all the BS about BP and drop in bullets, they will realize their likely issue.

 

[Idaholewis]

You bash BH like a liberal, socialist, snowflake bashes the current President

Now Thats Funny right there, and I don’t care who ya are!

Yes, I have Bashed it for MY OWN personal use, as it Failed Miserably for My Application, But NOT for others, I know it is used and LOVED by Many! If it works good for you, By all means USE IT! I am not trying to tell ANYONE to Give up on it, Just Giving my Personal Hands on Experience with it. And YES i fully Admit that the Problems i had with it are My Fault (I didn’t know ANYTHING about BH 209s Requirements at the Time) But that is the Way i load, and Target shoot, Therefore BH209 is NOT for me

George, Why do you feel Compelled in these threads to tell ME about Doug using Wool Wads, And Bob using EASY Loading Paper Patch Bullets? In other words you are Saying that they go against the Advice of BH209 as well, YET they have STELLAR luck with it. When I Clearly state that BH209 did NOT work for Me in Similar situations (Am i a Liar?) Maybe it’s because those Guy’s are YOUR “Pros” and can Whisper to it and make it go off?

 

[5MilesBack]

Good Lord!! READ the entire thread from the VERY Beginning. The OP is talking about Misfires with BH, i start by giving my hands on experience with it. The thread ends up straying off course

I've read it three times and you're obviously angry, but still not making any sense.

 

[Idaholewis]

I've read it three times and you're obviously angry, but still not making any sense.

I am not angry at all, in fact i am sitting here in total amusement over this

 

[5MilesBack]

I am not angry at all, in fact i am sitting here in total amusement over this

I'm sure you are......your logic has circled all over the place and still hasn't hit home or made sense. Some might find that amusing. The only thing I can take from all your posts......in a very round about way, is that you agree with Western about their claims.......even though you bash them for making those claims. Sound about right?

 

[Idaholewis]

Hey George, I emailed Western Powders this Morning about Loose Fitting Bullets with REAL Black.

Here is my Question to them

And their Response AGAIN, They should Contact Lee Shaver’s, and Dave Gullo (Both WORLD champions) And educate them on Loose Fitting Bullets