Bitcoin

[wintersoldia]

I have had a great week rough day today, though.

hopefully tomorrow is better

 

[Historybuff]

It's obvious some of you can't get past your ego to put an hour of your time studying bitcoin. Bitcoin has more applications than money. It's a beacon of hope and freedom. The price in fiat doesn't matter. Gold was money for 5000 years and you all sit at the corner stone of time were bitcoin takes over. Yet you refuse to learn and you sit and watch savages like me hoard the greatest asset humanity has ever known. If you're offended in any way with this post, that's your pride messing with you. Good luck to my fellow bitcoiners. And good luck to the doom and gloom boomers who refuse to learn. "If you don't believe it or don't get it, i dont have time to try and convince you, sorry."Satoshi Nakamoto. God bless.

 

[2531usmc]

But I bet that was bought by people 60+. For the majority, my generation (under 40) doesn't have any desire to buy gold or silver. There isnt a way to obtain financial freedom from gold or silver. Were in a time where things have to move very fast or interest is lost. Hell there are kids in their mom and dads basements that are outperforming wall street money makers. I'm all about investing in narratives and gold or silver aint it. My generation and younger will sell it as soon as they inherit it.

People over 60 had parents that were kids during the Great Depression. They grew up hearing stories firsthand of how bad hunger and economic conditions were. They’ve heard their parents tell stories about what happens when the banks and the economy shut down.

That’s why they might be inclined to buy physician gold. It’s protection against the world going to hell. It’s physical protection as much as it’s an investment.

Given the extreme fecklessness of our political and institutional leadership, don’t bet it can’t happen here. And if it does happen, are you willing to bet everything that electronic networks will be operating to the degree they are today.

In addition, I would make the observation that when one invests in narratives, one is investing in tulip bulbs.

 

[mattferg84]

People over 60 had parents that were kids during the Great Depression. They grew up hearing stories firsthand of how bad hunger and economic conditions were. They’ve heard their parents tell stories about what happens when the banks and the economy shut down.

That’s why they might be inclined to buy physician gold. It’s protection against the world going to hell. It’s physical protection as much as it’s an investment.

Given the extreme fecklessness of our political and institutional leadership, don’t bet it can’t happen here. And if it does happen, are you willing to bet everything that electronic networks will be operating to the degree they are today.

In addition, I would make the observation that when one invests in narratives, one is investing in tulip bulbs.

I'm very aware of that and the writing is on the wall that we are gonna witness something very interesting happen in our life time. BTC has doubled, tripled or quadrupled enough you can pull out your initial investment and not be over exposed. Over the last few cycles it was very common to put money into BTC rotate out after a few X's, put it in other crypto and 20x-50x your money. You could of paid off debt, retired themselves and their spouse or buy land. If you would of bought gold at the same time you would of lost money. And when (not if) things go down I would rather of bought land, food and ammo rather than gold.

 

[Silver Wings]

People over 60 had parents that were kids during the Great Depression. They grew up hearing stories firsthand of how bad hunger and economic conditions were. They’ve heard their parents tell stories about what happens when the banks and the economy shut down.

That’s why they might be inclined to buy physician gold. It’s protection against the world going to hell. It’s physical protection as much as it’s an investment.

Given the extreme fecklessness of our political and institutional leadership, don’t bet it can’t happen here. And if it does happen, are you willing to bet everything that electronic networks will be operating to the degree they are today.

In addition, I would make the observation that when one invests in narratives, one is investing in tulips

You’d think the depression era kids would have passed on the information that the federal government confiscated gold near the beginning of the depression in exchange for paper. Gold remained illegal to possess, aside from collectible coins, for 40 years.

 

[*zap*]

The feds can confiscate anything they want to confiscate via declaring an emergency or war.

In March 2012, Barack Obama signed Executive Order 13603, better known as the “National Defense Resources Preparedness” which enables the Federal government to confiscate and re-distribute all potable water, food, and whatever resources are necessary to protect the United States during a state of emergency.

I find crypto interesting but I am not going to rule out having physical possession of silver and gold.....especially US minted coins.

Having a crystal ball would also be nice.....



The gold confiscation of 1933 was a grab at the net worth of its citizens if the 'new' net worth is in crypto who is to say it would be exempt?

9 months after the confiscation order and after the feds took possession of all the gold that they paid $20 an ounce for they raised the price of gold to almost $40 an ounce devaluing the dollars they gave for the gold by 40%.

Gotta luv unclesam.

 

[Dos Perros]

I literally met with a couple last week and projected to gain them an extra $300,000+ just in social security planning alone. They will probably get a 7 figure benefit from working with me.

How much will you make off them?

 

[Stave]

It's obvious some of you can't get past your ego to put an hour of your time studying bitcoin.

It isn't wise to pass judgment on people in online forums. (I'm not saying you aren't wise lol I guess that would be hypocritical if I did) The point is, if you had a conversation in real life with one of the 'doomer boomers' your opinion of their ego and their intellect would change significantly one way or the other and you can't predict how.

For my part, I'm certainly not a boomer, much younger. I've owned, traded, and studied Bitcoin in a serious manner since 2020. I've come to the conclusion that it may or may not have utility in the long term, but it is not money. Only a commodity can be money.

I don't buy the distinction between specie money and fiat 'money'. I prefer the terms 'natural money' and 'counterfeit credit' when referring to gold and the dollar respectively. Bitcoin is also counterfeit credit to the extent that its promoters try to simulate natural money (golden token symbol, 'mining', "it is digital gold", "it will demonetize gold" etc.)

In my view, Bitcoin may have a future, but it isn't going to demonetize gold. It is very, very different from gold and humans will, accordingly, utilize it very differently, if at all.

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

It isn't wise to pass judgment on people in online forums. (I'm not saying you aren't wise lol I guess that would be hypocritical if I did) The point is, if you had a conversation in real life with one of the 'doomer boomers' your opinion of their ego and their intellect would change significantly one way or the other and you can't predict how.

For my part, I'm certainly not a boomer, much younger. I've owned, traded, and studied Bitcoin in a serious manner since 2020. I've come to the conclusion that it may or may not have utility in the long term, but it is not money. Only a commodity can be money.

I don't buy the distinction between specie money and fiat 'money'. I prefer the terms 'natural money' and 'counterfeit credit' when referring to gold and the dollar respectively. Bitcoin is also counterfeit credit to the extent that its promoters try to simulate natural money (golden token symbol, 'mining', "it is digital gold", "it will demonetize gold" etc.)

In my view, Bitcoin may have a future, but it isn't going to demonetize gold. It is very, very different from gold and humans will, accordingly, utilize it very differently, if at all.

But Bitcoin is actually a commodity... and recognized as such by the CFTC

 

[Stave]

What definition of commodity would include something like Bitcoins, which are non-entities?

They don't actually exist. The ledger exists, but the Bitcoins don't. The ledger is the real thing and it is a complex financial agreement/arrangement between many parties.

But, again, what definition of commodity would include a financial ledger, let alone the non-entities represented by the numbers on the ledger?

Edit: I've never looked up the definition of commodity but I'll take a stab at it:

Materials traded in markets or utilized in the economy

Materials exist physically. Bitcoins and dollars exist the way ideas exist. They are represented by paper or by numbers on a digital ledger, but they are ideas not physical entities

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

What definition of commodity would include something like Bitcoins, which are non-entities?

They don't actually exist. The ledger exists, but the Bitcoins don't. The ledger is the real thing and it is a complex financial agreement/arrangement between many parties.

But, again, what definition of commodity would include a financial ledger, let alone the non-entities represented by the numbers on the ledger?

Edit: I've never looked up the definition of commodity but I'll take a stab at it:

Materials traded in markets or utilized in the economy

Materials exist physically. Bitcoins and dollars exist the way ideas exist. They are represented by paper or by numbers on a digital ledger, but they are ideas not physical entities

Saying digital things don't exist is not relatable to me.

Does Rokslide not exist?

When you jump on a commercial airline and fly across the world does the code that lives on silicon chips that control the fuel nozzles in the jet engine not exist? Do you trust it? With your life?

Bitcoin exists on 100's of thousands of individual physical nodes across the world, It's mined and created only by expending energy in the real world on computers that are built and operated in the real world. Transactions are broadcasted to the bitcoin network over the internet. Is the Internet real? Electrons are in fact real and they travel on the actual digital gold that is silicon chips.

Gold is a shiny rock and nothing else. Its physical nature is what it has been manipulated and seized in every single instance over the history of developed human civilization.

The Bitcoin monetary policy is set in stone. It's predictable and immutable.

The equation is simple... Everything divided by 21 Million


Don't overthink it

 

[ozyclint]

It won't won't be "money' until its value stabilizes and holds over long periods of time. That is one of the fundamental properties of sound money.

 

[2531usmc]

Saying digital things don't exist is not relatable to me.

Does Rokslide not exist?

When you jump on a commercial airline and fly across the world does the code that lives on silicon chips that control the fuel nozzles in the jet engine not exist? Do you trust it? With your life?

Bitcoin exists on 100's of thousands of individual physical nodes across the world, It's mined and created only by expending energy in the real world on computers that are built and operated in the real world. Transactions are broadcasted to the bitcoin network over the internet. Is the Internet real? Electrons are in fact real and they travel on the actual digital gold that is silicon chips.

Gold is a shiny rock and nothing else. Its physical nature is what it has been manipulated and seized in every single instance over the history of developed human civilization.

The Bitcoin monetary policy is set in stone. It's predictable and immutable.

The equation is simple... Everything divided by 21 Million


Don't overthink it

You are correct, electrons are in fact real. They are also free to anybody that wants some.

Bitcoins are not “mined”. Bitcoins are really complex software algorithms moving free electrons through silicon based processors and memory chips.

There is no such thing as a “bitcoin wallet”. What passes for a bitcoin wallet is simply free electrons on silicon chips.

I too, am deeply concerned with the oncoming personal, local, state, and federal debt avalanche headed our way. I truly want to believe bitcoin is a store of enduring value.

But when you break it down to the basic components, there is simply nothing there.

 

[*zap*]

Tulips, anyone?

 

[Historybuff]

Sorry if i offended with the ego comment. Because I really enjoy this thread and people's opinions. Im just trying to poke and prod people to think about bitcoin. People really are missing part of the point of bitcoin. It's a revolution. Its the start of the end the federal reserve and its corrupt wealth robbing inflation and money printing, fractional reserve banking, taxes for wars. It's a peaceful protest against tyranny. Bitcoin isn't about number go up technology to me. It's just a nice side benefit of saving my money in bitcoin. Eventually you will have to have bitcoin to save against inflation. Buy it now or work for it later. Everyone gets the price they deserve.

 

[Stave]

Saying digital things don't exist is not relatable to me.

You are right, I was wrong in saying that bitcoins don't exist. Thank you, sincerely, it helps me clarify my thoughts.

Bitcoins do exist. However, they exist as ideas not as material. That difference has deep implications.

Start by thinking about the relationship between price and value.

If you want to know the price of gasoline, look at the gas station sign.
If you want to know the value of gasoline, fill up your tank, drive until you run out of gas, and push your vehicle back to the gas station.

Gasoline’s value is its molecular structure, which is combustible, and can move your car a long way.

The value of gasoline declines rapidly. It oxidizes, it gets contaminated and pretty soon it won't move your car. If you want to store gasoline, you have to add ingredients to slow its molecules’ degradation and that costs you something.

The value of gold, like gasoline (and all commodities) is its atomic structure, but there is something remarkable about gold’s atomic structure: gold does not oxidize. Apart from nuclear reactions within stars, gold atoms never change, react, or become part of other molecules with new sets of properties. Gold’s value doesn't change because its utility doesn't change because its structure doesn't change.

It is reasonable to trade an appropriate weight of gold for a can of gasoline if you need to mow your lawn. However, let that can of gasoline sit in the shop for five years and it would be unreasonable to trade even a tiny amount of gold to have it. This demonstrates that because gold’s atomic structure is incorruptible, its material value is constant. But all the other materials in the economy degrade over time. Therefore, gold measures the relative value of other materials, which is why it functions as money for economic materials.

Bitcoin does not have physical properties or uses. Its value is as an idea. Its price will not be determined by its attributes in the physical world, but by political ideas, movements and affinities. Consider the case of meme coins. The price of doge coin is moved by people's affinity for Elon Musk. The price of Elizabeth Warren coins is moved by people's hatred of her. Bitcoin's price is moved by people's confidence in the network of people that have it and use it. As I understand you, you value Bitcoin because you associate it with the idea of freedom you believe is embodied by the Bitcoin community interacting through the rigid rules of bitcoin's code.

Bitcoins, like political ideas and financial agreements, exist in the world of ideas and don't have stable price-relationships with things in the physical world.

For that reason I doubt Bitcoin will ever become a reliable pricing mechanism for materials-or function well as a currency. Its price will correlate with political relationships (political in the very broad sense of the intellectual dialogue and negotiation of human society). Bitcoin will compete very well against other ideas which derive their prices from polities: the dollar, the euro, etc. Bitcoin’s skyrocketing price is early evidence that people think the idea of Bitcoin is more valuable than the idea of dollars, but will it ever compete competently as a means to price commodities? Or will it be relegated like a meme coin to the momentum of crowds? We will all discover the answer to that question together day by day.

As a final word of caution about thinking simplistically, it is worth considering how the dollar's price relative to commodities has proven fairly stable. That is surprising and strange considering it is not a commodity and hasn't been redeemable for a commodity for decades. It isn't logical, but that is the unique power of ideas! They don't have to make sense. But eventually, reality reasserts itself. The dollar is finally progressing towards irrelevance, 60-100 years later than it logically should have. As the price of a dollar declines, its non-relationship to the natural world becomes more obvious. Today, March 23rd, the price of a dollar is 14.4mg Au. One day, the price of a dollar will probably be equal to its value: zero . . . or perhaps its price will be equal to the value of the cotton on which it is printed, which can be used as toilet paper or firestarter.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

For those saying Bitcoin can't be money because it's not "real"/isn't a tangible commodity...how "real" are the dollars that your employer pays you and that you use to buy stuff? How many of the dollars that you use every day to buy/sell/save have you held in your hand as coins/bills? If you're a typical American, it's a very small percentage. Most of us only ever see our dollars as digits on a computer screen and conduct most of our transactions using these intangible, electronic dollars. If you wanted to convert all of your electronic dollars to physical cash, you would likely have a difficult time doing so; your bank reserves the right to limit your cash withdrawals and very well may not have enough in the vault to fully cash you out even if they were willing to. Despite the intangible nature of most commerce conducted in dollars and some major fundamental flaws in the system (namely centralized control over issuance with no hard limit on supply), the dollar functions decently well as money. Likewise the digital/intangible nature of Bitcoin does not prohibit its ability to function as money.

Also, there is real (not tangible, but real nonetheless) value in the Bitcoin blockchain as a reliable, secure record of transactions; the value of the blockchain imparts value to the token (individual bitcoins) required to utilize the blockchain. Its value relative to other currencies/commodities has not yet stabilized to the degree necessary for it to function effectively as money, but the fluctuations will moderate as Bitcoin ages and spreads.

 

[BRTreedogs]

It's obvious some of you can't get past your ego to put an hour of your time studying bitcoin. Bitcoin has more applications than money. It's a beacon of hope and freedom. The price in fiat doesn't matter. Gold was money for 5000 years and you all sit at the corner stone of time were bitcoin takes over. Yet you refuse to learn and you sit and watch savages like me hoard the greatest asset humanity has ever known. If you're offended in any way with this post, that's your pride messing with you. Good luck to my fellow bitcoiners. And good luck to the doom and gloom boomers who refuse to learn. "If you don't believe it or don't get it, i dont have time to try and convince you, sorry."Satoshi Nakamoto. God bless.

Greatest asset EVER to humanity?
Mite be just a tad of an overstatement.
Get life bruh.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

You are correct, electrons are in fact real. They are also free to anybody that wants some.

Bitcoins are not “mined”. Bitcoins are really complex software algorithms moving free electrons through silicon based processors and memory chips.

Electrons in a useful form are not free. Bitcoin mining requires the same basic factors of production as other more familiar production processes: tangible capital goods (e.g., computers), consumable inputs (e.g., electricity), and human labor. The value of the inputs, however, does not determine the value of the output. Some would say Bitcoin miners are wasting resources doing the equivalent of digging a hole then filling it back in; others would say they're producing a valuable intangible commodity. I'm in the latter camp.

There is no such thing as a “bitcoin wallet”. What passes for a bitcoin wallet is simply free electrons on silicon chips.

Is your bank account a thing? Have you seen a stack of cash sitting in a bank vault with your name on it? Or are you just trusting some electrons on your bank's computer chips?

 

[IBen]

If bitcoins are not real create your own and get rich. Easy