Bitcoin

[*zap*]

A gold (or other precious metal) ira is a stack of gold sitting in a depository with your name on it and they will ship it to you at any time......(there may be taxes and/or penalties involved in withdrawing it).

 

[IBen]

“The value of gold, like gasoline (and all commodities) is its atomic structure, but there is something remarkable about gold’s atomic structure: gold does not oxidize. Apart from nuclear reactions within stars, gold atoms never change, react, or become part of other molecules with new sets of properties. Gold’s value doesn't change because its utility doesn't change because its structure doesn't change.”

Bitcoin has a structure. A coding/mathematical structure called a block chain Its structure doesn't change.

To all btc naysayers what is your motivation? Keeping the fed banks in control? There will only be 15 or so million btc spread across 5 billion adults. I recommend you at least buy .1 btc which would be a small risk for a lot of security if btc is universally adopted as a store of value/energy

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

You are correct, electrons are in fact real. They are also free to anybody that wants some.

Bitcoins are not “mined”. Bitcoins are really complex software algorithms moving free electrons through silicon based processors and memory chips.

There is no such thing as a “bitcoin wallet”. What passes for a bitcoin wallet is simply free electrons on silicon chips.

I too, am deeply concerned with the oncoming personal, local, state, and federal debt avalanche headed our way. I truly want to believe bitcoin is a store of enduring value.

But when you break it down to the basic components, there is simply nothing there.

Electrons are not free. The laws of thermodynamics says so, not me.

A bitcoin private key cannot be hacked with all of the available computing power on earth directed at it (It would still take millions of years to do it) which would be certainly in the GWH or TWH range if it were even possible to direct it all to one task.

Your perception of reality just isn't correct but your definitely "Free" to have it that way if you choose.

 

[IBen]

Greatest asset EVER to humanity?
Mite be just a tad of an overstatement.
Get life bruh.

If btc puts financial power in the hands of the individual not governments then yes it could be.
Imagine a world where world banks are powerless because there is a secure, decentralized currency/store of value whatever you want to classify it as that cannot be controlled.
Thats the potential of btc. Idk if it will happen but im rooting for it to be.
But everyone who has bought and held btc has made money. Money is real so why not buy some and make money at the very least? It doesnt have to be anything other than that. Early adopters of anything in the past are seen as crazy.

 

[*zap*]

the us dollar is backed by the us military....

 

[MountainTracker]

the us dollar is backed by the us military....

True


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

You are right, I was wrong in saying that bitcoins don't exist. Thank you, sincerely, it helps me clarify my thoughts.

Bitcoins do exist. However, they exist as ideas not as material. That difference has deep implications.

Start by thinking about the relationship between price and value.

If you want to know the price of gasoline, look at the gas station sign.
If you want to know the value of gasoline, fill up your tank, drive until you run out of gas, and push your vehicle back to the gas station.

Gasoline’s value is its molecular structure, which is combustible, and can move your car a long way.

The value of gasoline declines rapidly. It oxidizes, it gets contaminated and pretty soon it won't move your car. If you want to store gasoline, you have to add ingredients to slow its molecules’ degradation and that costs you something.

The value of gold, like gasoline (and all commodities) is its atomic structure, but there is something remarkable about gold’s atomic structure: gold does not oxidize. Apart from nuclear reactions within stars, gold atoms never change, react, or become part of other molecules with new sets of properties. Gold’s value doesn't change because its utility doesn't change because its structure doesn't change.

It is reasonable to trade an appropriate weight of gold for a can of gasoline if you need to mow your lawn. However, let that can of gasoline sit in the shop for five years and it would be unreasonable to trade even a tiny amount of gold to have it. This demonstrates that because gold’s atomic structure is incorruptible, its material value is constant. But all the other materials in the economy degrade over time. Therefore, gold measures the relative value of other materials, which is why it functions as money for economic materials.

Bitcoin does not have physical properties or uses. Its value is as an idea. Its price will not be determined by its attributes in the physical world, but by political ideas, movements and affinities. Consider the case of meme coins. The price of doge coin is moved by people's affinity for Elon Musk. The price of Elizabeth Warren coins is moved by people's hatred of her. Bitcoin's price is moved by people's confidence in the network of people that have it and use it. As I understand you, you value Bitcoin because you associate it with the idea of freedom you believe is embodied by the Bitcoin community interacting through the rigid rules of bitcoin's code.

Bitcoins, like political ideas and financial agreements, exist in the world of ideas and don't have stable price-relationships with things in the physical world.

For that reason I doubt Bitcoin will ever become a reliable pricing mechanism for materials-or function well as a currency. Its price will correlate with political relationships (political in the very broad sense of the intellectual dialogue and negotiation of human society). Bitcoin will compete very well against other ideas which derive their prices from polities: the dollar, the euro, etc. Bitcoin’s skyrocketing price is early evidence that people think the idea of Bitcoin is more valuable than the idea of dollars, but will it ever compete competently as a means to price commodities? Or will it be relegated like a meme coin to the momentum of crowds? We will all discover the answer to that question together day by day.

As a final word of caution about thinking simplistically, it is worth considering how the dollar's price relative to commodities has proven fairly stable. That is surprising and strange considering it is not a commodity and hasn't been redeemable for a commodity for decades. It isn't logical, but that is the unique power of ideas! They don't have to make sense. But eventually, reality reasserts itself. The dollar is finally progressing towards irrelevance, 60-100 years later than it logically should have. As the price of a dollar declines, its non-relationship to the natural world becomes more obvious. Today, March 23rd, the price of a dollar is 14.4mg Au. One day, the price of a dollar will probably be equal to its value: zero . . . or perhaps its price will be equal to the value of the cotton on which it is printed, which can be used as toilet paper or firestarter.

You are trying to determine price and value in YOUR perception of reality. Price and value in free/open markets get determined by all market participants. We don't have free money or free markets anymore so its all hypothetical. Bitcoin is the only free market because it's the only asset with zero counterparts risk. All the physical characteristics of gold are in fact its weaknesses in the wake of nation states abuse of power and money over the people.

Bitcoin is apolitical so whatever you meant by all that politics BS is a waste of energy.

Seems to me you are getting wrapped around the axle about wether its money or currency as defined by the STATE. That's an idea too... My idea is that Bitcoin is **** YOU MONEY. When you hold your private keys you get to say **** YOU to ANYONE who tries to destroy your wealth and human capital with their IDEAS.

Lots of talk about stability... Your being stably debased right now. Happy with that stability? Once again it's not recognized as money by the state anyways so who cares? Maybe it will someday... after all the State is just a bunch of humans operating as a collective. Will eventually sound like a good idea to enough people and they will impose some stupid definition to it. Bitcoin won't give AF and just keep producing blocks...

Humans will always be attracted to the best ideas. The world is slowly catching on that Bitcoin is the best idea.

 

[BRTreedogs]

If btc puts financial power in the hands of the individual not governments then yes it could be.
Imagine a world where world banks are powerless because there is a secure, decentralized currency/store of value whatever you want to classify it as that cannot be controlled.
Thats the potential of btc. Idk if it will happen but im rooting for it to be.
But everyone who has bought and held btc has made money. Money is real so why not buy some and make money at the very least? It doesnt have to be anything other than that. Early adopters of anything in the past are seen as crazy.

Maybe financial asset.
But ever. Ever in the world?
Pretty sure electricity is a better more important asset.
Try to mine you coins without it.

And if it does go mad max.
My 5.56 is going to be more of an asset then imaginary currency.

 

[IBen]

Maybe financial asset.
But ever. Ever in the world?
Pretty sure electricity is a better more important asset.
Try to mine you coins without it.

And if it does go mad max.
My 5.56 is going to be more of an asset then imaginary currency.

Best thing about btc is you dont have to buy it

 

[BRTreedogs]

Best thing about btc is you dont have to buy it

True.
I just think that classifying it as the biggest asset to humanity ever.
Is a bit of a stretch.
Not saying it doesn't have value to some people.

 

[Dos Perros]

Do people that buy bitcoin think others are sitting on a mountain of depreciating cash?

Or is the argument that it’s a superior investment to securities, gold, real estate, etc?

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

Do people that buy bitcoin think others are sitting on a mountain of depreciating cash?

Or is the argument that it’s a superior investment to securities, gold, real estate, etc?

Both

 

[BRTreedogs]

What makes crypto buyers think the world bank powers are not seeing this and formulating a plan to counter act any potential successful take over.

You think there just gonna sit idle.

 

[*zap*]

The powers in command are right now working their plan as they have for many years. Relinquishing power is not their plan.

 

[BRTreedogs]

The powers in command are right now working their plan as they have for many years. Relinquishing power is not their plan.

Most likely they formulated the entire thing to extract more money from people by giving them hope.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

True.
I just think that classifying it as the biggest asset to humanity ever.
Is a bit of a stretch.
Not saying it doesn't have value to some people.

The more I study history from an economic/monetary perspective and discover the scope and scale of destruction caused by unsound money—the senseless wars it has made possible, its inexorable drain on societal productivity, the immoral behavior it encourages—the more convinced I become that Bitcoin could indeed become the greatest boon to mankind in history. Sound money is the most basic building block of a productive, civilized society. I'm not against gold, but we've tried it as money and it lost out to fiat; I don't see a legitimate path to returning to gold as the dominant form of money. Bitcoin is our best hope for a return to sound money.

For anyone curious, I suggest reading What Has Government Done to Our Money? by Murray Rothbard (free PDF and audio versions available at mises.org) then The Bitcoin Standard by Saifidean Ammous. I'm willing to bet most folks that read those two with an open mind will become firmly "orange pilled." The former will succinctly tell you where society started (monetarily) and how we got here; the latter will tell you where Bitcoin could take us. For a deeper understanding, I would also suggest The Case Against the Fed (Murray Rothbard) and The Ethics of Money Production (Jörg Guido Hülsmann).

 

[Dos Perros]

Both

Well, you’re wrong once and maybe twice.

 

[*zap*]

Those who realize that there is no hope are in the best position to prepare.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Do people that buy bitcoin think others are sitting on a mountain of depreciating cash?

I think most others are struggling to get by in a monetary system that is rigged against them and forces them to either invest their much-less-than-mountain-sized amount of cash in assets they don't have the time or skills to properly evaluate or to watch their cash inexorably erode in value. Bitcoin could fix that conundrum.

Or is the argument that it’s a superior investment to securities, gold, real estate, etc?

I primarily buy and hold Bitcoin because I'm a true believer in its potential as a return to sound money and greater economic freedom. I have also (to a lesser degree) opportunistically bought and sold it to realize a profit. Incidentally, it has performed far better than anything else for me (stocks, gold, silver, real estate) since my first purchase in 2018.

 

[2531usmc]

Electrons are not free. The laws of thermodynamics says so, not me.

A bitcoin private key cannot be hacked with all of the available computing power on earth directed at it (It would still take millions of years to do it) which would be certainly in the GWH or TWH range if it were even possible to direct it all to one task.

Your perception of reality just isn't correct but you’re definitely "Free" to have it that way if you choose.

Are you confident you are referring to the laws of thermodynamics and not Maxwell’s Equations?