Better "stock" up boys

[Kevin Dill]

It is possible to prevent guns from making it inside a school. Plenty of government-funded entities are successful at keeping unwanted guns (and mass killers) from accessing venues such as secure areas of airports, aircraft, courthouses, capitals, and other secured sites. We could...if necessary...keep unwanted guns out of schools. It would be expensive and require lots of effort. Is it worth doing? Is your child's life worth the cost and effort? Is a better answer to allow gun-toting teachers to shoot back and hope they can kill a killer before he takes the first life? Would we be willing to drop airport security and allow ourselves to be protected only by armed airport staffers and maybe a security guard who might be somewhere avoiding gunfire? There is no logic at all in thinking the best and first defense inside our schools is a teacher with a gun. Do that and it might help in selected circumstances, but a lot of children will still lose their lives until the point is made. Keep guns and shooters completely out of our schools. It can be done if we are willing.

 

[bmart2622]

So if I dont want teachers carrying guns that makes me a sheep?

 

[gelton]

I was thinking about this issue last night and I say to myself WTF are we doing. We aren't going to solve any problems on Rokslide, whatever your view might be on the situation.

We are grown men (and some ladies) who love hunting and most all of us own guns. Yet here we are arguing about the efficacy of guns protecting people. I think most would agree that the 2nd amendment wasn't written for hunting. It was written not only for self defense but to keep the government in check as well. The founders were clear on their intent - shall not be infringed.

Yet here we are, a group of people who should largely agree with each other, arguing about how to curtail our rights and give up our rights to self defense. Its a strong indication that we are headed in exactly the wrong direction.

Bump stocks - I don't own any or ever plan to, but give an inch and they will take a mile.

Making mental health a part of background checks and restricting peoples rights based on the determination of a doctor is a slippery slope. Many of our veterans are on these drugs, we have over 1 million kids under the age of SIX on these drugs, 1/6th of our entire population - 20 MILLION people are on these drugs.

Should they all be treated like convicted felons? If they cant own a gun should we even allow them to vote?

The future of the 2nd amendment isnt very bright and that my friends is a very sad outlook for our country.

Especially considering that those of us that have contributed to this thread, even when we share the common ground of hunting (which often requires guns) cant even agree on a path forward. Sad.

 

[5MilesBack]

So if I dont want teachers carrying guns that makes me a sheep?

Perhaps. Do you not want normal everyday citizens carrying in public? What differentiates these teachers (and not just teachers, but administrators and security personnel as well) from normal every day citizens that are carrying?

 

[5MilesBack]

I was thinking about this issue last night and I say to myself WTF are we doing. We aren't going to solve any problems on Rokslide, whatever your view might be on the situation.

We are grown men (and some ladies) who love hunting and most all of us own guns. Yet here we are arguing about the efficacy of guns protecting people. I think most would agree that the 2nd amendment wasn't written for hunting. It was written not only for self defense but to keep the government in check as well. The founders were clear on their intent - shall not be infringed.

Yet here we are, a group of people who should largely agree with each other, arguing about how to curtail our rights and give up our rights to self defense. Its a strong indication that we are headed in exactly the wrong direction.

Bump stocks - I don't own any or ever plan to, but give an inch and they will take a mile.

Making mental health a part of background checks and restricting peoples rights based on the determination of a doctor is a slippery slope. Many of our veterans are on these drugs, we have over 1 million kids under the age of SIX on these drugs, 1/6th of our entire population - 20 MILLION people are on these drugs.

Should they all be treated like convicted felons? If they cant own a gun should we even allow them to vote?

The future of the 2nd amendment isnt very bright and that my friends is a very sad outlook for our country.

Especially considering that those of us that have contributed to this thread, even when we share the common ground of hunting (which often requires guns) cant even agree on a path forward. Sad.

Exactly. Our nation as a whole is more important than any one person or group. That's why we have the foundation here that we have. When there are folks willing and adamant to tear that foundation apart, there is only one outcome to weakening, breaking, or ruining a foundation.

When you look at the numbers, there are WAYYYYY more teen suicides every year than have ever been killed in school shootings ever. So when there is this much of an outpouring for demanding action and solutions every time there is a shooting, we know it is an agenda against guns.....every time. Logically, everyone's time and efforts would be better spent combating suicide instead. And we don't even need armed parents or teachers for that.

 

[bmart2622]

Training, and average people arent responsible for the safety of a bunch of kids

 

[5MilesBack]

Training

Correct, the teachers and administrators would be well-trained. But that should make it more appealing to citizens over just regular Joes carrying in public. However, given our 2nd Amendment rights, why do teachers currently have to check those rights at the door? When did that start? Like I said, in the 80's most students had guns in their vehicles so I'm sure there were armed teachers as well......yet nobody got shot up by either. I'm sure there might have been some individual cases of someone shooting in a school, but nothing like we're seeing these days with all the regulations we have now. Why is that? What changed?

I even remember bringing my shotgun on the bus and carrying it into school to store in the principal's closet until school was out, because I was going hunting after school. That was middle school in the late 70's.

 

[bmart2622]

You're not changing my mind, im all for armed protection in the school, not armed teachers

 

[5MilesBack]

You're not changing my mind, im all for armed protection in the school, not armed teachers

I'm not trying to change your mind, just trying to figure out your logic. And as in a chess match, I can already see the progression of that.

 

[bmart2622]

I am very pro gun, put 100 armed guards in every school, I am not in favor of armed teachers. Check mate

 

[nrh6.7]

I promised myself I'd stay away from this thread, but I can't help it.

I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendment and that an armed society is a polite society. The left always screams there will be blood in the streets if people can carry a gun...open carry a gun...own a gun. Never happens, and that would carry over to teachers/admin/staff being trained and allowed to carry on campus. The primary reason shootings happen at these types of places are because the shooter knows he/she won't have anyone to contend with. However, make it known that there are people carrying and watch the shootings greatly diminish or stop.

My wife is a high school teacher and is more along the thought process of a sheep, although she is getting better. I am sheepdog through and through and know folks at her school that are similar and would gladly intervene in a situation like that. Even she is fine with allowing staff to carry and sees the value of having someone on the "inside" if needed.

Ultimately, society as a whole is different and we have a tough road ahead if we're to make any progress. Parenting has changed, the way kids spend their off time has changed and accountability is at an all-time low. The care factor in adolescents doesn't even register unless it pertains to themselves. Bring family values back to the forefront and maybe we won't here about random shootings as much.

 

[Nomad]

This whole concept of blaming an organization and an inanimate object but letting people who take actions with said objects off the hook is just baffling to me. Seeing so many people who seem to be so ready for the government to come in and solve this (or any other) problem is pretty disgusting.

I'm not ready to compromise away ANY of my 2nd amendment rights. I'm a life member of GOA because they put my money to work in fighting, without compromise, for my rights. I just sent them another $250 because I'm legitimately concerned with the rhetoric and attitudes I've seen lately on television and online.

I don't pretend to have the answers to preventing school shootings but advertising them as "gun free zones" makes as much sense as hiking into Grizz infested wilderness with a porkchop tied around your neck.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

Um, wrong. Pilots did arm themselves after 911 and it sure has been terrible with tons of inadvertent deaths.

More airline pilots toting guns after 9/11 attacks - latimes

If this is true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't then awesome... I support it. But I would argue that a 9/11 event hasn't happened since because of how difficult it is to get something like a weapon into the plane's cabin not because the captain may or may not be carrying. Honestly I fly a good bit and I had no idea staff could potentially have sidearms. I do however know (for the last however many years) I can't bring a bottle of water through TSA

Regardless of where you stand on the armed guard concept I think we can all agree that if a hypothetical armed officer or teacher did have to engage an active shooter, it would likely mean lives have already been compromised. In a sense, wouldn't it have been better if the shooter wasn't able to get into the building in the first place?

I am an NRA life member, an MSR/AR owner and CCW permittee... with that said and the way I rationalize/justify things, (just like in a prison or on an airplane) it makes more sense to me to implement much stricter building/grounds security than arming staff with the hopes of stopping an active shooter in progress. But I respect other opinions as I've been wrong much more than I've been right in life.

 

[gelton]

I've been wrong much more than I've been right in life.

Haven't we all

 

[timekiller13]

No one has a problem with a Sunday School teacher carrying their Glock on Sunday morning while they worship and teach the local youth. The same person can't carry their gun to their 6th grade class Monday-Friday while they teach the same kids. Am I the only one who has a problem with that?

 

[IdahoElk]

Not sure if this has been confirmed but if this is true,what is going on?

"Four Broward County Sheriff's deputies failed to enter Florida high school during shooting"


Four Broward County Sheriff's deputies failed to enter Florida high school during shooting: Report

Sources: Coral Springs police upset at some Broward deputies for not entering school - CNNPolitics


Twitter

 

[gelton]

Not sure if this has been confirmed but if this is true,what is going on?

"Four Broward County Sheriff's deputies failed to enter Florida high school during shooting"


Four Broward County Sheriff's deputies failed to enter Florida high school during shooting: Report

Sources: Coral Springs police upset at some Broward deputies for not entering school - CNNPolitics


Twitter

This is sickening. Watching the Sheriff grandstanding on CNN put a bad taste in my mouth. Seems his deputies followed the leader. More will come out here but I bet you wont see it in the Lamestream Media.

"The resentment among Coral Springs officials toward Broward County officials about what they perceived to be a dereliction of duty may have reached a boiling point at a vigil the night of February 15, where, in front of dozens of others, Coral Springs City Manager Mike Goodrum confronted Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel."

 

[BroodBuster]

Well the Broward Sheriffs Dept sure doesn’t make a good argument for disarming the populace!

 

[mtnwrunner]

There was some discussion some posts back about locking this thread. I don't think it's necessary as there is some thoughtful and meaningful information as well as passionate opinions. Keep it respectful. I find it ironic that everyone is screaming for something to be done but no one likes anybody's ideas.
If teachers want to be armed, then let them and provide training. If schools want armed security, let them and provide training. We are much better off protecting our children than trying to eliminate crazy people. They will ALWAYS exist.
Case in point........metal detectors and armed security in courthouses. Seattle was in the forefront of this in the 90's......I don't recall the exact specifics but in a nutshell, some guy was pissed off about a divorce and shot and killed her and her attorney inside the king county courthouse and there were several other incidences like this. OMG! Shit hit the fan and we all made a shitload of overtime protecting all the courthouses until security measures were installed and policies were made. My point is that now, no one even thinks twice about going into a courthouse and having to go through a detector. It's just the way it is. For god sakes, if schools keep getting hit, let's protect them. The nut jobs will always be out there. And that would be DOING SOMETHiNG.

Randy

 

[Diesel]

If this is true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't then awesome... I support it. But I would argue that a 9/11 event hasn't happened since because of how difficult it is to get something like a weapon into the plane's cabin not because the captain may or may not be carrying. Honestly I fly a good bit and I had no idea staff could potentially have sidearms. I do however know (for the last however many years) I can't bring a bottle of water through TSA

Regardless of where you stand on the armed guard concept I think we can all agree that if a hypothetical armed officer or teacher did have to engage an active shooter, it would likely mean lives have already been compromised. In a sense, wouldn't it have been better if the shooter wasn't able to get into the building in the first place?

I am an NRA life member, an MSR/AR owner and CCW permittee... with that said and the way I rationalize/justify things, (just like in a prison or on an airplane) it makes more sense to me to implement much stricter building/grounds security than arming staff with the hopes of stopping an active shooter in progress. But I respect other opinions as I've been wrong much more than I've been right in life.

Logical point. Now add trained concealed carry school personnel as back-up. Punishment must be swift, overwhelming and public to those who kill our kids. No perp should think for a moment that their evil would even have a chance of success.

There is no value in restricting gun ownership any further. Taking away another's rights to justify failings of law enforcement and appease emotional distress is illogical and ineffective.