Best TSS size for 70yd turkey load???

[hobbes]

Yeah…. TSS needs to be banned for turkeys. They’re struggling bad right now so we as Sportsmen need to think long and hard about the ability to effectively double the range you can shoot turkeys from just a decade ago.

If you need to shoot at Turkey at 70 yards, get better at Turkey hunting.

Flame away.

TSS has been hand loaded for at least a decade. You can thank the big time manufacturers for hyping up the long range effectiveness over the last few years. Turkeys in some states are in trouble, but it sure as heck isn't because of TSS.

I don't find the interest in killing them at long range whether the gun/shot wiIl do it or not, but I'm not for banning it. There are not enough birds being killed with TSS to cause that kind of decrease, especially considering it's a lack of poult production not a lack of gobblers living to see another year. I suppose the new slogan for TSS could be......It hits em so hard it'll stop their kids in their tracks. .

 

[satchamo]

TSS has been hand loaded for at least a decade. You can thank the big time manufacturers for hyping up the long range effectiveness over the last few years. Turkeys in some states are in trouble, but it sure as heck isn't because of TSS.

I don't find the interest in killing them at long range whether the gun/shot wiIl do it or not, but I'm not for banning it. There are not enough birds being killed with TSS to cause that kind of decrease, especially considering it's a lack of poult production not a lack of gobblers living to see another year. I suppose the new slogan for TSS could be......It hits em so hard it'll stop their kids in their tracks. .

You’re looking at this through the wrong lens. The numbers are so bad why would we not get the low lying fruit and make a quick fix by limiting our range? Especially if it keeps guys like the OP who “doesn’t care about turkeys” out of the woods?

Poult production clearly is an issue - I agree. But there’s compounding theories about pecking order and dominance and how killing a dominant bird before hens are bred can completely jack up the breeding cycle in a given area. So if limiting TSS and maybe letting a few of these dominate birds ( who usually are damn near impossible to kill WITHOUT long range capabilities) go?

I just can’t sit around and say welp there’s nothing we can do…. Gotta be willing to put in the work and sacrifice to help them. Me personally am looking to get trappers into our farm to get coons and possums. Going to adjust our control burn patterns to happen after peak nesting. Obviously limiting TSS isn’t my only idea…

 

[Slugz]

Didn't Nebraska just raise the # allowed to harvest? 3 spring Toms?
Just saying. There are some places out here in the big square states that have them everywhere.

Back to the topic. If the hunter practices, knows his equipment, can make an ethical clean kill and it is legal then I got no problem with ranges. Same goes for the guys that take long range rifle shots on big game.

 

[hobbes]

Since I am naive about the purity of turkey hunting, I am curious if my last kill violates it: my last bird was off a botched double. My shot was obstructed. After my Dad's initial shot I popped up and sprinted after that other Tom like he stole my money. He freaked and couldn't pick left or right, so he tried both a few times. Meanwhile, I straight-lined through the brush as fast as my fat butt could scramble. I threw on the brakes and shot as I was skidding. I skipped the wad off the back of his head at 15yds! Is that also an ethical violation?

Some folks would say so. I've killed a few that way, but it was mostly by accident. I've killed some too damn far also. However, I am not into blinds, food plots, or decoys. I've hunted a blind with a kid or two and carried a decoy a time or two, typically at the request of someone I was hunting with. I'm sure as hell not into "fanning". I'm clearly not a purist, but I think you'd find that most purists have no interest in decoys, blinds, or fanning.

The two biggest difference that I see is in generations. No 1.....Respect for the quarry has somehow not been passed on through the generations. No 2.....(in this case) Eastern hunters in general have a much greater respect/love for turkeys, especially Southeastern hunters, and they are deeply rooted in tradition. They are an all consuming passion back there They are mostly an oddball in the West that destroys a rancher's haystacks in their winter hoards and something to pass a weekend or two during the long wait for September to arrive. It doesn't help that Merriam's, especially in the winter, don't seem quite as sharp as an Eastern. I've found plenty that aren't dumb, but in general Easterns are tougher to hunt.

I love them either way, and would raise hell to stop using TSS if I thought that had anything to do with declining turkey populations.

 

[hobbes]

You’re looking at this through the wrong lens. The numbers are so bad why would we not get the low lying fruit and make a quick fix by limiting our range? Especially if it keeps guys like the OP who “doesn’t care about turkeys” out of the woods?

Poult production clearly is an issue - I agree. But there’s compounding theories about pecking order and dominance and how killing a dominant bird before hens are bred can completely jack up the breeding cycle in a given area. So if limiting TSS and maybe letting a few of these dominate birds ( who usually are damn near impossible to kill WITHOUT long range capabilities) go?

I just can’t sit around and say welp there’s nothing we can do…. Gotta be willing to put in the work and sacrifice to help them. Me personally am looking to get trappers into our farm to get coons and possums. Going to adjust our control burn patterns to happen after peak nesting. Obviously limiting TSS isn’t my only idea…

I wouldn't complain if I had to go back to lead so if you can get it done I'm not going to be in an uproar. It won't happen in the West, but I suppose it's possible in some states. There just aren't enough folks that care about turkeys once you get west of the Black Hills. There are lots of folks that do care, but not enough. They are just carp to a lot of folks. You can't believe the damage several hundred wintering turkeys can do. They can be hell for a rancher. They scatter for miles at the spring breakup and that same rancher may only have a dozen birds hang on into summer. He knows they aren't doing well when 300 drops to 50 in a couple winters but is probably grateful.

I'm aware of the studies about killing dominant birds too early in the breeding cycle. There are some folks that aren't buying it yet, but I don't think the southeast can afford to wait around. In fact I sent in a recommendation to MT FWP last year asking them to shift our season. I listed that as a reason but also the terrible weather. That's actually an FWP proposal this year. I really doubt that I instigated it, but I sent the same comments in support of the proposal just yesterday. I suspect the main reason for the shift is how damn nasty the weather typically is on the opener. I'd have been okay if the proposal was to shift the opener another 5 days.

It's going to be tough to instill Eastern generations of tradition and respect for turkeys into most Western hunters. They don't have that history. Pheasants aren't native, but you'll find more concern for them in MT. Big game rules here. I doubt that many Westerners are aware some Eastern states list turkeys as big game. It's a long line behind elk, moose, mule deer, antelope, whitetails, black bear, grizzly bear, big horn sheep, mountain goats, mountain lions......

 

[hobbes]

Didn't Nebraska just raise the # allowed to harvest? 3 spring Toms?
Just saying. There are some places out here in the big square states that have them everywhere.

Back to the topic. If the hunter practices, knows his equipment, can make an ethical clean kill and it is legal then I got no problem with ranges. Same goes for the guys that take long range rifle shots on big game.

Nebraska has been 3 birds since at least around 2008. I don't think Nebraska has the same numbers they once did.

 

[hobbes]

Western winter's, especially late Winters that carry into spring, really control Western turkey numbers. I'd say that is the case for at least ND, SD, NE, MT, WY, CO, northern NM and AZ, ID, and UT. Turkeys would not survive some of the Montana winters without piling into the ranches that I mentioned above. Some ranchers are sympathetic. I know of several cases of ranchers unrolling old bale's of hay away from their cattle just for turkeys. It's probably mostly to keep them out of their cattle feed, but it's still a benefit. The turkeys tear into them anyway for the grain. It's insane what a flock of turkeys can do to a haystack.


Sorry, I've gotten off track. Turkeys are a weakness of mine. I typically hold it back until later in February since it's so dang cold here, but if I ever get started......

 

[Southern Heritage]

Ive been realoding TSS for about a decade.
To answer the orginal post id do a mix of 7’s 8.5’a and 9’ doing half my weight in 9’s.

I dont care how far you shoot a turkey personally.
Ive shot a .410 for years now. Why cuss its fun and light and different. If you showed up with a 10 guage i could care less. Id probably comment i caried one for many years and my back is still paying for it.
As for distance i do like it when hunting with a 20 guage or 12 guage if i miss or make a bad shot at 25yds our closer which happens. I can still tag um up to 75 yds with tss.
Also ive shot turkeys in fields way to far.
Like 81 and 84 yds (strides)
I bow hunt all the time and feel good about judging distance. But turkey hunting a field and a gobbling strutting turkey, Ill say a 100 yds is 50 all day long. Which is absolutely stupid but i did that for years before
a) moving a a 4-10
b) totating a range finder

Below is pictures of what TSS does at close range. Both 20 gauge kills
One at 4 yds
One at 14 yds

So you can see how its easy to miss or wound up close with tss as it typically hold tighter.
Niether of these birds did i let get this close on purpose. Just first shot opportunity i got in my thick low lying swamp lands

 

[hobbes]

Ive been realoding TSS for about a decade.
To answer the orginal post id do a mix of 7’s 8.5’a and 9’ doing half my weight in 9’s.

I dont care how far you shoot a turkey personally.
Ive shot a .410 for years now. Why cuss its fun and light and different. If you showed up with a 10 guage i could care less. Id probably comment i caried one for many years and my back is still paying for it.
As for distance i do like it when hunting with a 20 guage or 12 guage if i miss or make a bad shot at 25yds our closer which happens. I can still tag um up to 75 yds with tss.
Also ive shot turkeys in fields way to far.
Like 81 and 84 yds (strides)
I bow hunt all the time and feel good about judging distance. But turkey hunting a field and a gobbling strutting turkey, Ill say a 100 yds is 50 all day long. Which is absolutely stupid but i did that for years before
a) moving a a 4-10
b) totating a range finder

Below is pictures of what TSS does at close range. Both 20 gauge kills
One at 4 yds
One at 14 yds

So you can see how its easy to miss or wound up close with tss as it typically hold tighter.
Niether of these birds did i let get this close on purpose. Just first shot opportunity i got in my thick low lying swamp lands

They look dead, but a lead dove load will do that at 4 yards and it won't leave one looking pretty at 14 yards. .

 

[Zappaman]

Just wondering, but why the steel? Nontoxic requirements? As you stated, no way I'd want to shoot them at 40 yards with steel 6s. At 20 and in, you could kill them with almost any shot.

I hunt sometimes in a federal wildlife refuge- so non-tox is indeed required. I have shot turkey with steel plenty of times, but I prefer the TSS because it goes THROUGH the bird (and steel shot is hell on teeth).

 

[Billy Goat]

I hunt sometimes in a federal wildlife refuge- so non-tox is indeed required. I have shot turkey with steel plenty of times, but I prefer the TSS because it goes THROUGH the bird (and steel shot is hell on teeth).

9V Metal Detector Wand

Amazing deals on this 9 Volt Metal Detector Wand at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Cheaper than a visit to the dentist. Probably not a big deal if you only shoot a bird or two a year.

 

[Tod osier]

9V Metal Detector Wand

Amazing deals on this 9 Volt Metal Detector Wand at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Cheaper than a visit to the dentist. Probably not a big deal if you only shoot a bird or two a year.

Broke a tooth on TSS in turkey sausage this fall. I have not found a comprehensive positive review on a metal detector like that that will pick up a TSS because the pellets are so tiny. There is one (below) that is supposed to work pretty for steel, but supposedly hardly picks up TSS even with a pellet in hand.

https://www.amazon.com/Garrett-1140900-Pro-Pointer-Waterproof-Pinpointing/dp/B00TADH9HA

 

[Billy Goat]

Broke a tooth on TSS in turkey sausage this fall. I have not found a comprehensive positive review on a metal detector like that that will pick up a TSS because the pellets are so tiny. There is one (below) that is supposed to work pretty for steel, but supposedly hardly picks up TSS even with a pellet in hand.

https://www.amazon.com/Garrett-1140900-Pro-Pointer-Waterproof-Pinpointing/dp/B00TADH9HA

Yeah, that's a problem with TSS. You can pick up Steel pretty easily, but TSS not so much. Tungsten is just hard to pickup.

I posted that in response to steel being he'll on teeth.

 

[aclawrence]

I shoot 9’s out of my 20ga and they work great. I love turkey hunting. It’s my number one passion in the hunting world. I’m not going to shoot a bird over 40-45yds. If I can’t get him to come closer or I can’t get closer to him he is the winner. The turkeys are on a serious struggle bus down here in the south. I think TSS is awesome because of how effective it is and if you mis judge one and he’s at 55 instead of 40 he’s probably still a dead bird. For y’all that said your out of the loop on turkey hunting check out a book called “The Old Pro Turkey Hunter” by Gene Nunnery. It will shed some light on the history of some of the old turkey hunters and what it’s all about to me. If I were going to shoot 70yds I think I would load up some 6 or 7’s I guess but I haven’t tried any paper that far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Holocene]

ON paper, TSS 9s is the answer to the OP's question. They offer the optimal blend of retained energy and pattern density at that distance. I read a handloader forum years ago where a guy had done extensive testing and analysis. He reasoned that TSS 7s carried energy even farther than 70, but lost sufficient pattern density. TSS 9s had both, so a kind of sweet spot. A shotgun ballistics calculator can get you the math.

But...there are two practical downsides to shooting turkeys past ~50 yards. I've shot a pile of turkeys back East and here in Oregon with a 20 gauge in either Winchester Longbeard XR #5 or TSS # 9.

#1 = Pellet spray
With a typical TSS choke, you are going to start spraying teeny tiny TSS pellets into the birds breast, legs, wings, maybe organs. My family eats those parts, and because TSS is actually harder than steel, it's theoretically even more hell on teeth. No incidents yet for us, but the risk is there. Especially because TSS pinholes through the flesh without leaving much of a blood trail and can get lost. Lead deforms and leaves a visible, bloodier wound channel. Not TSS.

#2 = Misses or destroyed meat at close range
Someone posted two shots at 4 and 14 yards with a tightly choked TSS load. Marble size groups! I see a lot of guys miss birds with a 12 gauge because of the recoil. I tore up a bird two years at 12 yards using TSS 9s.

Using a scope/red dot and shooting a smaller gauge can tame your shot and I heartily recommend a 20 gauge with optic or at the least a very heavy 12 gauge.

The fun and effective range to shoot turkeys is from 5 - 40 yards in my opinion. On out of state hunts or at the end of the year -- when the pressure's on -- I'll crush a bird out to about 50 yards with TSS 9s. But beyond that, it's not worth the meat damage so I'll pass, work him closer, or come back another day.

 

[Zappaman]

Broke a tooth on TSS in turkey sausage this fall. I have not found a comprehensive positive review on a metal detector like that that will pick up a TSS because the pellets are so tiny. There is one (below) that is supposed to work pretty for steel, but supposedly hardly picks up TSS even with a pellet in hand.

https://www.amazon.com/Garrett-1140900-Pro-Pointer-Waterproof-Pinpointing/dp/B00TADH9HA

I've rarely found any TSS in a bird I've shot (turkey, goose, duck), but I have found plenty of steel.

Some of my waterfowl loads are 12g "duplex" TSS loads (TSS over steel) where the TSS fills the pattern out nicely without needing to use much of it in that larger shell wad. I don't make shots much past 50 yards (rare, but sometimes) and when I get home and clean the birds the TSS is almost always a clean hole passing through the bird- broken bones and all. But still... I always track each hole down until I find an exit or a pellet.

 

[Ozarkansas]

8s or 9’s at that range but be ready to break your teeth, your pattern probably will be putting shot in their breast and legs. I chipped a tooth on a number 9 pellet this year from the leg of a Turkey I shot at 50, not a fun experience- that tungsten shot is HARD.

 

[WCB]

I'd shoot Turkeys with a rifle if allowed...just an fyi

 

[Brian Fahs]

I run 7.5 tss in my 10 gauge semi. 2 1/2 ounces of hell on earth.
I run 9 tss in my 20 gauge semi. 1 5/8 ounces same results.
I put vortex venom red dots on all my turkey guns. Really like them.
What no one seems to mention here is the importance of the proper choke to the size shot and load. Indian creek makes some great chokes I am partial to. They shoot about as tight as you want but you really have to aim..
I've been turkey hunting a very long time and killed my share and more. I will not get into the ethics of how far to shoot a turkey , but today's guns chokes and ammo are more than capable at extreme distances. How far is a personal choice.

 

[Cant hit em]

I like the Black Cloud TSS that are a mix of 3’s & 9’s. With 20gauge they do damage