Best midlayer for long sits?

[BilboBaggins]

I'm building a layering system for long sits white tail hunting. Want to be able to stay out in 0f if I need to. I'm struggling to understand which midlayer I need.

Current line up:
First lite kiln baselayer
?? Midlayer
Sitka jetstream
Feathered friends Helios puffy

Would the sitka ambient 100 line be good? Or go heavier on the base layer and get ambient 75? Seems like 3 hoods would be annoying so maybe I should get something hoodless. What would you guys pick in this layering system? I already decided I don't want to do a dedicated whitetail system like the fanatic.

 

[barrister]

For stationary hunting, have you considered a heated vest? I have mid layers like the Ambient for using on more mobile hunts, but I’m to the point where I value more heat for sitting in a tree stand or a ground blind in sub freezing weather. Before using a heated vest, I would put three of the large disposable heat packs inside the pockets of my jacket.

 

[JPeters218]

So I just bought the ambient 75 to serve as a mid layer. Over my core lightweight. Use as an outer layer until cold enough that I need my fanatic jacket. I wish I would’ve bought the 100. The 75 just doesn’t give me nearly as much warmth as I was hoping.

Edit, I had been using the Kuiu Peloton 200, and I’d been pretty happy with that. Just wanted something new. So that peloton line might be worth a look too

 

[RADunfee]

I like the Peleton 200 or the original Ambient which was 150. Depends on level of activity. Both hoodless. I hate stacking hoods.

 

[Bump79]

I like the Peleton 200 or the original Ambient which was 150. Depends on level of activity. Both hoodless. I hate stacking hoods.

This is nearly exactly what I do.

My system is Pnuma Heated Vest, Sitka 120 merino, Peloton 200 or 97, Ambient 150. If really cold, I lauer my synthetic puffy under the Ambient.

 

[KoolBreeze]

Long sits in 0 degrees would be miserable for me with a Jetstream regardless of the midlayer. Definitely Fanatic set weather for me, plus a good midlayer.

 

[Maverick1]

I'm building a layering system for long sits white tail hunting. Want to be able to stay out in 0f if I need to. I'm struggling to understand which midlayer I need.

Current line up:
First lite kiln baselayer
?? Midlayer
Sitka jetstream
Feathered friends Helios puffy

Would the sitka ambient 100 line be good? Or go heavier on the base layer and get ambient 75? Seems like 3 hoods would be annoying so maybe I should get something hoodless. What would you guys pick in this layering system? I already decided I don't want to do a dedicated whitetail system like the fanatic.

Have you used your current system yet? If so, how does your existing 6.54 oz of 900 FP down jacket not qualify as an insulation layer? And, what layer would you expect to have better performance from a CLO standpoint?

A couple of users above are suggesting a fleece midlayer. Which is a poor choice. (Stop it with the “But it is Kuiu”…..the brand is irrelevant!). The CLO value of fleece is incredibly low. In no world does a 200 fleece out perform 6.5 oz of 900FP down.

If anything, your system is fine. You need an oversized wind breaking layer so as to not compress the down. With that your system would look like:
Merino baselayers.
FF Helios
Windstopper.

Add in a heated layer and you will get to zero. (I have the same components as you and have tested numerous sets of bibs and jackets to the negative teens. The only issue I ran into with the FF Helios was the arm length is too long for my arms, and my wind breaking outer layer was the Stratus, which is constricted in the forearm area. Combine the compressed down from too long sleeves and the snug Stratus forearms and I developed some cool spots there.)

The Helios pants are pretty good. But have less total fill than the jacket.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Have you used your current system yet? If so, how does your existing 6.54 oz of 900 FP down jacket not qualify as an insulation layer? And, what layer would you expect to have better performance from a CLO standpoint?

A couple of users above are suggesting a fleece midlayer. Which is a poor choice. (Stop it with the “But it is Kuiu”…..the brand is irrelevant!). The CLO value of fleece is incredibly low. In no world does a 200 fleece out perform 6.5 oz of 900FP down.

If anything, your system is fine. You need an oversized wind breaking layer so as to not compress the down. With that your system would look like:
Merino baselayers.
FF Helios
Windstopper.

Add in a heated layer and you will get to zero. (I have the same components as you and have tested numerous sets of bibs and jackets to the negative teens. The only issue I ran into with the FF Helios was the arm length is too long for my arms, and my wind breaking outer layer was the Stratus, which is constricted in the forearm area. Combine the compressed down from too long sleeves and the snug Stratus forearms and I developed some cool spots there.)

The Helios pants are pretty good. But have less total fill than the jacket.

No I am admittedly pretty newby when it comes to serious hunting in the cold. Still haven't even ordered most of this system yet. I was under the impression that windstopper (the jetstream) under the puffy is the best approach to avoid compressing the down. Not sure how that effects the thermodynamics of the system but intuitively a windstopper outer shell seems like it would be more effective yeah.

So just skip the fleece? My thoughts were to maybe just get a cheap military fleece to throw in my pack in case I needed it for the sit or for the walk out to the stand. That would be without a heated vest, with a heated vest I could see it being unnecessary.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Long sits in 0 degrees would be miserable for me with a Jetstream regardless of the midlayer. Definitely Fanatic set weather for me, plus a good midlayer.

Well its not just a jetstream that's just for blocking wind. The Helios is a pretty substantial down jacket.

 

[Beagle1]

If you have never done long sits in zero degree weather you will be surprised at how warm you have to dress. If after half an hour you feel the cold starting to come you’ll be very cold after an hour. Usually you stay warm for the first hour or so then feel the heat start leaking out of you and can stay warm enough to keep hunting for another hour our so. To stay out at least four or five plus hours is tough to dress for, then factor in wind and snow and it gets very difficult. Also even if you can dress warm enough you have factor in how far you’ll be walking to get to your stand so you’ll likely have to carry in some of your clothes to keep from overheating. Some of my stands are a relatively short walk and I know I can wear almost all my clothes and not overheat by the time I get there. Other stands I have to carry lots of my clothes in.

For sure I would get a Pnuma heated vest with an extra battery. I would wear a 300 g. baselayer over that . For a mid layer I would wear a down puffy or vest. I am just starting to experiment with an Ambient 200 as a mid layer but have no idea what temps yet it will be good for. Over that I would wear a good down jacket. The Skre Guardian is a good value jacket. It sounds like you want to go the shell route as an outer jacket but I think you’ll have a tough time dressing warm enough to last when it’s zero.

For bottoms I would go 200 g. then 300 or 400 g. baselayers then a pair of light down Kuiu of Stone Glacier pants. Over that would be down bibs. Again the Skre Guardian are a good value.

Also put some thought into keeping your feet, hands and head warm. It makes a big difference in fighting the cold. Consider good electric socks, I like Lenz socks, a good hand muff with heat packs, a heavyweight fleece or down balaclava and a heavyweight fleece bomber hat.

Yeah it’s expensive to stay warm. I went the cheaper route when I was younger because I did not know how to dress properly but even if I did know I couldn’t have afforded most of the stuff I mentioned in this post. I ended up trying to stretch clothes to zero degrees that were not made for it. When you are younger you can get away with that to a degree but it’s not pleasant.