Back to work Vax status

[Actual_Cryptid]

I'd start with every aspect of your personal philosophy on life and liberty.

Alright, explain to me how employer drug testing is coherent with a philosophy liberty but employer vaccination mandates isn't. Enlighten me.

Explain how "drugs are illegal" excuses an infringement on personal liberty but OSHA rules governing businesses is untenable.

Or you could try to describe my personal philosophy on life and liberty. I'm betting it would be about as accurate as a Miss Cleo prediction but it would be fun to show some friends.

 

[Wrench]

There's a pretty clear difference between OSHA telling you to don z87's and take an injection of unknown substance that is under scrutiny.

If the glasses are not the right fit, your ears hurt and you put on different glasses.

If the vax isn't the right fit, you suffer up to and including death.


Drug use policies are very easy to follow, they require inaction. Vax mandates require action. You can quit or be fired and then go choose drugs, but you cannot quit or be fired and choose to "unvax".

 

[5MilesBack]

Now the courts get to decide how valid your religion is.

IMO this has nothing to do with religion or religious exemption. Just as the case before the SCOTUS has nothing to do with how many kids are in the hospital, or how many people are dying of Covid.

However, IF religious exemptions are allowed for anything........then they also should be allowing liberty exemptions, logic exemptions, and just personal choice exemptions. And then we're right back to where everything starts in America.......our Constitutional rights and protections from government over reach. This has nothing to do with companies mandating vaccines (I mean experimental shots), and has everything to do with the federal government mandating that companies have mandates. THAT's the problem. And amazingly, even the three SCOTUS justices that spoke out on this case this week don't seem to understand the Constitution, the SCOTUS purpose, and even simple logic. SMH

 

[bsnedeker]

Alright, explain to me how employer drug testing is coherent with a philosophy liberty but employer vaccination mandates isn't. Enlighten me.

Explain how "drugs are illegal" excuses an infringement on personal liberty but OSHA rules governing businesses is untenable.

Or you could try to describe my personal philosophy on life and liberty. I'm betting it would be about as accurate as a Miss Cleo prediction but it would be fun to show some friends.

It's not. I won't take a drug test for any company and have refused to do so in the past.

Your continued "what-about-isms" and grasping at straws are a pretty pathetic way of making your so-called points.

 

[Wrench]

IMO this has nothing to do with religion or religious exemption. Just as the case before the SCOTUS has nothing to do with how many kids are in the hospital, or how many people are dying of Covid.

However, IF religious exemptions are allowed for anything........then they also should be allowing liberty exemptions, logic exemptions, and just personal choice exemptions. And then we're right back to where everything starts in America.......our Constitutional rights and protections from government over reach. This has nothing to do with companies mandating vaccines (I mean experimental shots), and has everything to do with the federal government mandating that companies have mandates. THAT's the problem. And amazingly, even the three SCOTUS justices that spoke out on this case this week don't seem to understand the Constitution, the SCOTUS purpose, and even simple logic. SMH

I agree with you 100%, however the argument that religion is constitutionally protected and logic is not.

Our forefathers saw forced religion, lack of logic got you killed at the time of writing.

 

[ODB]

Alright, explain to me how employer drug testing is coherent with a philosophy liberty but employer vaccination mandates isn't. Enlighten me.

Explain how "drugs are illegal" excuses an infringement on personal liberty but OSHA rules governing businesses is untenable.

Or you could try to describe my personal philosophy on life and liberty. I'm betting it would be about as accurate as a Miss Cleo prediction but it would be fun to show some friends.

Let’s see, how about that a vax mandate forces you to inject something against your will to remain employed.

If you think making an idiotic yet autonomous choice to use drugs (and suffer consequences already in place at the time of hiring) is equivalent to a third-party forcing you to take them after you are hired, you need to think a little longer about that.

 

[Actual_Cryptid]

Can the "companies can't tell me what to do in my off time" and the "companies can tell me what to do in my off time, but not to get a vaccine" figure out which of those is the position of personal freedom, and then get back to me? Because those are fundamentally contradictory positions.

Same for the "the government mandate is the problem" vs "companies can't tell me I need a vaccien to stay employed." Again, fundamentally contradictory, and the latter is in conflict with the business owners right to choose who they employ and set working conditions.

I don't see how employer drug policies are not excessive overreach but an employer vaccine mandate is. It sure seems like it ends at "I think vaccines and bad and drugs are bad" rather than a position about personal freedom, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

[lif]

If there was a way for you to be vaccinated at work but not vaccinated off work it would be a different story, but there's not. A vaccine mandate is about you being at work, just like every other work safety precaution.

It's not my employer's job to make sure I'm not breaking the law on my own time. Again, testing me for drugs at work to make sure I didn't smoke weed off work is my employer dictating what i can do in my own time. Moreso, if I traveled to a country where it's not illegal, like the Netherlands, smoked weed, came back and was drug tested my employer could still fire me. Same for Employment Division vs Smith, where the individuals went to sovereign land to participate in a religious ritual involving peyote, but were fired anyway.

If "it's illegal" is enough for you, then great. OSHA made a rule about companies with more than 100 employees, those companies are complying with OSHA's rules, which have behind them the power of congress and the federal government. It's illegal for those companies not to comply with OSHA rules.

Some of this would be accurate if you were referring to an employers requirement of employment. We are currently speaking of a government mandating an employers requirement of working. Folks like you defending the over stepping of our government power is what we should all be fighting against. You may think mandating a vaccine is a good thing in your opinion. But you are missing the greater picture, fear THE PROCESS, not the decision. If you believe the vaccine makes you personally safe that is fine with me. Go ahead and get it. It doesn’t bother me. But what if the government mandated that no one could have the vaccine and still be employed? Would that be ok with you? FEAR THE PROCESS!!!!

 

[isItFallYet]

Can the "companies can't tell me what to do in my off time" and the "companies can tell me what to do in my off time, but not to get a vaccine" figure out which of those is the position of personal freedom, and then get back to me? Because those are fundamentally contradictory positions.

Same for the "the government mandate is the problem" vs "companies can't tell me I need a vaccien to stay employed." Again, fundamentally contradictory, and the latter is in conflict with the business owners right to choose who they employ and set working conditions.

I don't see how employer drug policies are not excessive overreach but an employer vaccine mandate is. It sure seems like it ends at "I think vaccines and bad and drugs are bad" rather than a position about personal freedom, but maybe I'm missing something.

This is easy to explain to anybody, except for you obviously.

Number 1, companies are only doing this because the government is mandating it.
Number 2, companies are not telling you what to put in your body when they request you to abstain from illegal drug use.
Number 3, companies are forcing you to put something in your body that you don't want to put in your body.

Do you see the difference between 2 and 3? If not, you never will and the people that are arguing this (including me), are wasting their time. We're all wasting our time arguing this on this medium anyway.

 

[bsnedeker]

Can the "companies can't tell me what to do in my off time" and the "companies can tell me what to do in my off time, but not to get a vaccine" figure out which of those is the position of personal freedom, and then get back to me? Because those are fundamentally contradictory positions.

Same for the "the government mandate is the problem" vs "companies can't tell me I need a vaccien to stay employed." Again, fundamentally contradictory, and the latter is in conflict with the business owners right to choose who they employ and set working conditions.

I don't see how employer drug policies are not excessive overreach but an employer vaccine mandate is. It sure seems like it ends at "I think vaccines and bad and drugs are bad" rather than a position about personal freedom, but maybe I'm missing something.

Translation: Here are other examples of over-reach, therefore all over-reach is not only ok, but it's in everyone's best interest!

But what about, but what about, but what about, but what about....blah blah blah.

People like you are the reason tyrants come to power and are often cheered for their efforts....right up until they come for you personally.

 

[ODB]

Translation: Here are other examples of over-reach, therefore all over-reach is not only ok, but it's in everyone's best interest!

But what about, but what about, but what about, but what about....blah blah blah.

People like you are the reason tyrants come to power and are often cheered for their efforts....right up until they come for you personally.

Often called “useful idiots”. And any history fan knows what Happens to them.

 

[Wrench]

Can the "companies can't tell me what to do in my off time" and the "companies can tell me what to do in my off time, but not to get a vaccine" figure out which of those is the position of personal freedom, and then get back to me? Because those are fundamentally contradictory positions.

Same for the "the government mandate is the problem" vs "companies can't tell me I need a vaccien to stay employed." Again, fundamentally contradictory, and the latter is in conflict with the business owners right to choose who they employ and set working conditions.

I don't see how employer drug policies are not excessive overreach but an employer vaccine mandate is. It sure seems like it ends at "I think vaccines and bad and drugs are bad" rather than a position about personal freedom, but maybe I'm missing something.

Pretty simple. I would not work for an employer in my line of work who does not drug test. Mistakes kill people in my occupation. I get to choose my employer. If my employer changed it's policy, I'd bail....not because I am against freedom in any way shape or form, but because I need tack sharp coworkers to watch my 6.

Choosing the occupational operating conditions is easy when they can be followed by all.

If your employer told you that you needed to tattoo your employee number on your forehead... would you?

Of course not. It serves no purpose other than to show submission....some would because they need the job.....just like the vax. If it's truly deadly to those who refuse, then what exactly are all the vaxers worried about? Seriously, applying their logic, they'll have the world to themselves any day now....and since they follow the science, they are protected from harm.

 

[ORfish]

Pretty simple. I would not work for an employer in my line of work who does not drug test. Mistakes kill people in my occupation. I get to choose my employer. If my employer changed it's policy, I'd bail....not because I am against freedom in any way shape or form, but because I need tack sharp coworkers to watch my 6.

Choosing the occupational operating conditions is easy when they can be followed by all.

If your employer told you that you needed to tattoo your employee number on your forehead... would you?

Of course not. It serves no purpose other than to show submission....some would because they need the job.....just like the vax. If it's truly deadly to those who refuse, then what exactly are all the vaxers worried about? Seriously, applying their logic, they'll have the world to themselves any day now....and since they follow the science, they are protected from harm.

It isn't about just "you" is the point. I am vaccinated not because I am afraid of catching/dying of it, but that I could transmit it to someone else who could get sick/die. Transmitting it to a client and killing them is poor customer service. And it is mandatory in healthcare when many people you interact with are at high risk of hospitalization if they catch it.

As the Pope said yesterday, getting vaccinated is a moral obligation- not to protect yourself, but to protect others. By getting vaccinated, we decrease the chance of transmission to others and shorten the duration of the epidemic. There is a reason every major church has come out in favor of vaccinations- morally we must all try to protect the weak or defenseless. The most basic of Christian teachings.

 

[KurtR]

It isn't about just "you" is the point. I am vaccinated not because I am afraid of catching/dying of it, but that I could transmit it to someone else who could get sick/die. Transmitting it to a client and killing them is poor customer service. And it is mandatory in healthcare when many people you interact with are at high risk of hospitalization if they catch it.

As the Pope said yesterday, getting vaccinated is a moral obligation- not to protect yourself, but to protect others. By getting vaccinated, we decrease the chance of transmission to others and shorten the duration of the epidemic. There is a reason every major church has come out in favor of vaccinations- morally we must all try to protect the weak or defenseless. The most basic of Christian teachings.

Your not protecting anyone. I guess that’s if you “believe the science”. Might even be detrimental if your asymptotic and giving it to everyone.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

Company required by 11-5. I got the J&J had an allergic reaction had to go to hospital the next day. Sent a copy of my vax card to HR got the checkmark next to my name, then I burnt my Vax card.... Had Covid in my house for 3 weeks never got it. Month later vax sent me to hospital. I am done no more shots for me Dr's orders.

 

[sneaky]

It's called quitting a job and choosing gov welfare over filing an exemption.

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No it isn't, it's called changing jobs. You make a perfect brown shirt for the Party

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[Steve O]

It isn't about just "you" is the point. I am vaccinated not because I am afraid of catching/dying of it, but that I could transmit it to someone else who could get sick/die. Transmitting it to a client and killing them is poor customer service. And it is mandatory in healthcare when many people you interact with are at high risk of hospitalization if they catch it.

As the Pope said yesterday, getting vaccinated is a moral obligation- not to protect yourself, but to protect others. By getting vaccinated, we decrease the chance of transmission to others and shorten the duration of the epidemic. There is a reason every major church has come out in favor of vaccinations- morally we must all try to protect the weak or defenseless. The most basic of Christian teachings.

Since we’ve invoked the pope now I will just say “Holy COW”!

I’d say it’s very well proven now, most recently by Queen AOC, that the “vaccinated” are doing a great job of catching AND spreading the virus!

 

[bpurtz]

Let me add to this.

I work remote and have for longer than Covid has existed. I have zero contact with workers or customers.

The ETS specifically exempts remote workers, yet my work has not informed us that is available, nor, when I asked, addressed it directly. Only that we must respond by Friday.

Coercion?

One of my hunting buddies had the same situation. Remotely worked - no direct contact with other employees - his company is headquartered in Germany and they were not approving religious or medical exemptions - and he already had covid so he had natural immunity.

 

[sneaky]

Holy sheeit, that's next level.

That's how people get shot

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[sneaky]

"Vaccinated people have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated"
Terribly misinformed.
The unvaccinated are >90 of hospitalizations. Who pays for Medicare? Me and my taxes!
There have been deaths at hospitals because all the ventilators were being used by unvaccinated covid patients. I fear that.
People with comorbidities and weak immune systems have caught covid from the unvaccinated spreading it around, innocent people die every day from catching Covid from the unvaccinated.
Most importantly, as the Supreme Court has decided before, we are all part of a society- not living on individual islands. The unvaccinated do not have a right to continue the epidemic and infect innocents.
George Washington was right that vaccines are right for America (mandated smallpox vaccines).
Do the right thing for America, get vaccinated, end the epidemic. Its only continuing because the unvaccinated choose continued suffering over America's prosperity.

Sure thing Kate Brown. How about all the people dying because they got Covid spread by someone vaxxed and boosted? How about telling the real truth... this country has an obesity problem and that's the number one comorbidity for Covid but you can't talk about that because it's body shaming? Stay in Oregon and toe the Party line.

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