Average Hunter Ignorance.

[huntnful]

I would never post a video like that. I think OP deserves to get the grief he got about that harvest.

The post is for people to make their own conclusions about bullet performance. That’s the sole purpose of the page. Judge away if you’d like. I don’t get any “grief”, or at least don’t view it that way. I am always open to hearing others views and opinions and being open to understand them if they actually make sense.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I agree. But the last rib is a long ways back behind the pocket of the shoulder. My hand is behind the removed shoulders. And you can see the ribs extending at least 12” beyond that

View attachment 742348

Correct.

As you get further away from the pulmonary artery (which enters the lungs much lower and further forward) the arterioles get much smaller and/or transition completely to capillary beds. Which is why I made my statement about not all lung shots being created equally.

At the end of the day, the wound channel has to destroy enough tissue/vasculature to create sufficient blood loss to incapacitate the animal. A wound in the periphery of the lungs will create less hemorrhage than a wound closer to the pulmonary artery.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I think you're a little bit confused about shot placement. For an animal that is angling towards the shooter, the bullet should be placed in front of the shoulder, not behind it like you show. The blue X is the spot I would shoot for.


View attachment 742264

Blue x and Red x both have good potential for quick death with a well constructed bullet flying fast enough. For me this shot would depend on distance and wind speed/direction for whether I’d favor a red x or blue x.

I think people fail to realize that every animal is different just like every human is different. I’ve seen hearts completely blown out of deer and elk and they proceed to run 80-100 yards. I’ve seen deer and elk shot in the guts, drop and die instantly.

Until you open an animal up and see what happened it’s all speculation. Predicting wild animal behavior based on limited information will have you scratching your head most of the time.

OP I appreciate these videos. Would be really cool to be able to do a “collage” of photos following the videos of the shots.

 

[huntnful]

Correct.

As you get further away from the pulmonary artery (which enters the lungs much lower and further forward) the arterioles get much smaller and/or transition completely to capillary beds. Which is why I made my statement about not all lung shots being created equally.

At the end of the day, the wound channel has to destroy enough tissue/vasculature to create sufficient blood loss to incapacitate the animal. A wound in the periphery of the lungs will create less hemorrhage than a wound closer to the pulmonary artery.

I definitely agree to a point. But animal doesn’t have to have sufficient blood loss to be incapacitated. It can just be from lack of oxygen to the brain via drop in blood pressure from lung damage. Which can come well before shear blood loss.

Blue x and Red x both have good potential for quick death with a well constructed bullet flying fast enough. For me this shot would depend on distance and wind speed/direction for whether I’d favor a red x or blue x.

I think people fail to realize that every animal is different just like every human is different. I’ve seen hearts completely blown out of deer and elk and they proceed to run 80-100 yards. I’ve seen deer and elk shot in the guts, drop and die instantly.

Until you open an animal up and see what happened it’s all speculation. Predicting wild animal behavior based on limited information will have you scratching your head most of the time.

OP I appreciate these videos. Would be really cool to be able to do a “collage” of photos following the videos of the shots.

I agree man. The video of the shot/shots followed up by a series of damage photos would be much more informative for sure. Most of these aren’t even my videos, so I share I was have to at least give people an idea of bullet performance.

If you guys want a good comparison, check out what 2 perfectly placed .308 accubonds do on the caribou, in comparison to these 2 not so perfectly placed 215 Berger’s. Both result in dead animals but the difference is apparent.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I definitely agree to a point. But animal doesn’t have to have sufficient blood loss to be incapacitated. It can just be from lack of oxygen to the brain via drop in blood pressure from lung damage. Which can come well before shear blood loss.

Blood loss is what causes the drop in blood pressure, that leads to lack of oxygen to the brain.

Or, in the case of a tension pneumothorax it can lead to asphyxiation/cardiac arrest because of insufficient oxygenation of the blood.

 

[huntnful]

Blood loss is what causes the drop in blood pressure, that leads to lack of oxygen to the brain.

Or, in the case of a tension pneumothorax it can lead to asphyxiation/cardiac arrest because of insufficient oxygenation of the blood.

Okay, I understand what you're not saying. Not necessarily referring to the animal bleeding out to the point it can't function (like with a true artery shot for example, where shear blood loss is the cause of incapacitation), but just lacking enough blood pressure to function. I feel like those are very different things personally.

 

[Jason Snyder]

but just lacking enough blood pressure to function. I feel like those are very different things personally.

No, they are essentially the same thing. Loss of blood volume due to internal and/or external hemorrhage leads to incapacitation because the brain is not supplied with adequate oxygen.

The lack of blood pressure because of a wound channel is a direct result of lack of blood volume.

 

[*zap*]

In general, ignorance is rampant.

 

[huntnful]

This buck went 5 yards and was down in seconds. Shot looks about 8-10” behind the shoulder (obviously not my preferred placement, but might as well learn from it since it happened, and it clearly worked extremely fast). What did I hit? I can only assume lungs just from what I saw, and how fast he died. Maybe make an assessment on the blood color? But I’m not really that knowledgeable on that stuff in all honesty.



I wish I did more necropsy stuff. But I’m always hunting solo and the work is barely beginning once I kill the animal. I packed this entire buck and cape out in one shot. 4 miles and 2000’ vertical up to the truck. Hence why I don’t spend a ton of time assessing damage, like I should. Because it is invaluable info honestly.

 

[Jason Snyder]

The aorta and vena cava are both underneath the vertebrae in the lumbar region. You have the hepatic and renal arteries in the area just behind the diaphragm.

The bull in the video did in fact go down fairly rapidly and displayed all the signs of rapid blood loss. I’m using that as the basis for my earlier statement the the wound channel hit a major piece of vasculature, because a lung shot that high and that far back will very likely not be a rapid death.

 

[Jason Snyder]

What did I hit?

Liver.

Note how dark red the blood is, and no frothiness and/or bubbles.

 

[huntnful]

No, they are essentially the same thing. Loss of blood volume due to internal and/or external hemorrhage leads to incapacitation because the brain is not supplied with adequate oxygen.

The lack of blood pressure because of a wound channel is a direct result of lack of blood volume.

Appreciate the clarity Jason!

 

[huntnful]

Liver.

And that killed him, or at least incapacitated him in seconds?

 

[WeiserBucks]

And that killed him, or at least incapacitated him in seconds?

Yup, I've seen me do it.

 

[Jason Snyder]

And that killed him, or at least incapacitated him in seconds?

Yes.

The liver has a lot of vasculature in it, and extreme trauma to it will cause a LOT of bleeding.

The hepatic artery is a pretty big vessel.

 

[huntnful]

Yup, I've seen me do it.

Yes.

The liver has a lot of vasculature in it, and extreme trauma to it will cause a LOT of bleeding.

The hepatic artery is a pretty big vessel.

Wow I really appreciate this!! I killed this buck two years ago, and to this day, I thought that it HAD to have been a lung based off of how he died. Literally no idea a liver shot could be equally as devastating under any circumstances. Really appreciate the added info!! Always helps with analyzing future kills and shot placements.

Any confirmation based off the blood color coming out of the exit as well?

 

[BBob]

Literally no idea a liver shot could be equally as devastating under any circumstances.

I don’t think anyone plans on a liver shot but when it happens it’s $$$

Same with archery too. I’ve seen many broadhead hits in livers over the years and they just die.

 

[huntnful]

I don’t think anyone plans on a liver shot but when it happens it’s $$$

Same with archery too. I’ve seen many broadhead hits in livers over the years and they just die.

Great info!

Turns out, I am actually just an “Average Ignorant Hunter” myself . Consider me educated!

 

[Jason Snyder]

Any confirmation based off the blood color coming out of the exit as well?

Yes. Dark red and no bubbles/frothiness.

 

[Bowfinn]

This is for humans but I would guess the percentages are similar across most mammals. Yes the liver can cause incapacitation very quickly especially if you hit the portal vein or hepatic artery.
Edit- I should also mention the inferior vena cava can also be damaged with liver shots. It runs on the back(towards spine) of the liver and returns blood from the entire lower extremity and abdominal regions.