auction tags?

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

I can draw no parallels between an elected official changing laws and a private citizen attending an open public auction and outbidding everyone else for an item.

The parallel is you are saying it is acceptable for the rich to be afforded a separate set of rules because they have done well in their career, well what is the difference in politicians that are successful in their careers being afforded a separate set of rules too.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

My point all along was these are special tags for a special group. At many levels this just doesn't sit well with me no matter the good things the money raised does

This is my point as well

 

[jmez]

So again, I ask, are these not public auctions where anyone is allowed to bid? How is a public auction affording anyone a different set of rules?

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of all these systems, I can't afford and auction tag short of winning the Powerball. I don't keep up on them.

If a tag, or anything else, is sold at public auction, then I fail to see how it is not a public item. The final cost and who and how it was created are not relevant to the fact that anyone is allowed to bid on the item. I see that as pretty black and white. If there were a set number of people/names on a list and they were the only people allowed to bid, then I would agree, not a public tag.

As far as changing laws, seasons etc. That is already done and happens with other tags and hunts. There are special youth seasons, within those seasons youth are allowed to take game that would otherwise be antler restricted. There are special handicap regulations, allowing those to use means to take game that are not allowed by others. The Game and Fish doesn't operate under a blanket set of rules and restrictions. They change things for what would hopefully be the betterment of the sport.

There is a huge difference in giving youth a longer season or someone with a bum shoulder the right to use a crossbow and giving some rich guy additional season dates or unhindered choice of unit. This isn't betterment of the sport or opportunity for those with limitations, it is elitist living by a different standard than the rest of us.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

So again, I ask, are these not public auctions where anyone is allowed to bid? How is a public auction affording anyone a different set of rules?

You are correct they are public auction but they are priced for a select group.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

I did a job recently that had a bison mount. In talking to the owner come to find out his 17 year old son was the one that shot this Buffalo in Alaska. He proceeded to tell me how there was a bunch of guys up there that were all kinds of pissed off because they been applying for that draw for years and years and this happened to be his son's first time entering the draw and he got it. I think this is great and illustrates my point perfectly. Hunting is a great equalizer. If we start taking away peoples chances based on money that makes us no better than aristocracy. I like the fact that I can have a 1500 dollar bow $1,000 backpack and another 3000 dollars or more in gear and a 17 year old kid with 20 year old hand me downs can show up and have the same opportunity at the same animals I do. When you start auctioning off at extreme prices opportunities for hunting you are excluding that same 17 year old kid, we are no longer equal.

 

[Mtnboy]

You are correct they are public auction but they are priced for a select group.

Supply and demand drives that price, there is no law saying they have to be sold for a price only rich people can afford, it just so happens that they are a hot commodity so the price gets driven to a point that not many of us can afford....that's life....

 

[MattB]

I think this is great and illustrates my point perfectly. Hunting is a great equalizer. If we start taking away peoples chances based on money that makes us no better than aristocracy.

It is ironic that that people talk in terms of "taking away peoples chances" when the ultimate reason for having auction tags is the expansion of people's chances. Here in CA we more than doubled the desert sheep tag numbers over ~15 years in part through the use of auction tag proceeds. I have heard from the folks who decried the diversion of 1-2 tags each year that could have gone into the draw, and they are entitled to their opinions. They never seem to take into consideration the additional 5 or 10 tags that we now have in the public draw *each year* that we wouldn't have if the auction tag process never existed.

 

[weaver]

You are correct they are public auction but they are priced for a select group.

No different then a $40,000 stone sheep hunt in B.C.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

It is ironic that that people talk in terms of "taking away peoples chances" when the ultimate reason for having auction tags is the expansion of people's chances. Here in CA we more than doubled the desert sheep tag numbers over ~15 in part through the use of auction tag proceeds. I have heard from the folks who decried the diversion of 1-2 tags each year that could have gone into the draw, and they are entitled to their opinions. They never seem to take into consideration the additional 5 or 10 tags that we now have in the public draw *each year* that we wouldn't have if the auction tag process never existed.

It is taking away the chance that is being offered when it is priced so heavily out of the range of the majority and only in the range of the elite. They should be held to the same standard as everyone else and not be able to by their way around the odds. There are better ways to raise money that doesn't perpetuate the same inequalities that permeate most every other aspect of life.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

No different then a $40,000 stone sheep hunt in B.C.

The difference is everyone is held to the same standard on a $40k stone sheep hunt. Yes it sucks that its so expensive but to say that it shouldn't is like saying a Ferrari should be priced the same as a Toyota. Some things just cost more but they should cost the same for everyone. A rich man shouldn't be able to drive his Ferrari 150 mph down the freeway because he donates a million dollars to improve highways should he? This is the same thing as altered rules for auctioned tags.

 

[MattB]

There are better ways to raise money that doesn't perpetuate the same inequalities that permeate most every other aspect of life.

What are some better ways to raise the amount of funds raise through an auction tag?

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

What are some better ways to raise the amount of funds raise though an auction tag?

Double the normal fee for one, that wouldn't put anything completely out of reach.

 

[MattB]

Using California in 2013 as an example, that doesn't get you there (all else equal). You would need to roughly triple application fees to get the desired result, but that (unreasonably) assumes that would not diminished application numbers. Raffles historically have not earned as much as auction tags either. Other ideas? Or is the notion that there are better ways to generate equivalent proceeds pie in the sky?

 

[jmez]

So they should make it fair for everyone and charge $40,000 per tag. Equal opportunity that way rather than a public auction.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Using California in 2013 as an example, that doesn't get you there (all else equal). You would need to roughly triple application fees to get the desired result, but that (unreasonably) assumes that would not diminished application numbers. Raffles historically have not earned as much as auction tags either. Other ideas? Or is the notion that there are better ways to generate equivalent proceeds pie in the sky?

OK then triple it or quadruple it, you're still way below non resident fees for some other states. Subsidize the loss in applicants (which there won't be) with raffles. Nothing pie in the sky

 

[weaver]

The difference is everyone is held to the same standard on a $40k stone sheep hunt. Yes it sucks that its so expensive but to say that it shouldn't is like saying a Ferrari should be priced the same as a Toyota. Some things just cost more but they should cost the same for everyone. A rich man shouldn't be able to drive his Ferrari 150 mph down the freeway because he donates a million dollars to improve highways should he? This is the same thing as altered rules for auctioned tags.

I guess i dont understand. Everybody has the the chance to buy these tags for the opportunity of hunting multiple seasons. Same as the super hunt raffles.
I dont like everything about these auctions but i think the good outweighs the bad. JMHO

 

[realunlucky]

OK then triple it or quadruple it, you're still way below non resident fees for some other states. Subsidize the loss in applicants (which there won't be) with raffles. Nothing pie in the sky

Not sure I agree with this approach either. I do know if there was not auction tags raffles would bring in more money being the only chance to circumvent the regular draw process. Seems like they only want to give to conversation for a tag and not a chance or multiple chances to draw in a raffle scenario.

 

[realunlucky]

So they should make it fair for everyone and charge $40,000 per tag. Equal opportunity that way rather than a public auction.

Maybe all tags should be auction that would raise serious cash and be the fairest way

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

So they should make it fair for everyone and charge $40,000 per tag. Equal opportunity that way rather than a public auction.

No that wasn't the point at all. That's irrational and not even close to what I said. Try again