Arrow Penetration....

[roosiebull]

Mechanicals hit behind the pin more often than fixed heads. Not hitting behind the pin is the fastest way to lose critters. If you’ve got the energy, and you can tune your bow, I just fail to see the upsides to a fixed blade.


Edit: most people, even professionals, can’t perfectly hold it together in hunting situations. That translates to fixed heads not hitting behind the pin where a mechanical would have.

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There is certainly truth to that

Both have their place, and certain setups or scenarios call for one over the other

This whole topic reminds me a lot of hunting with match bullets vs “hunting” bullets, or maybe that topic has changed my perspective a little on broadhead choices, and how many misconceptions are attached to each

I have become a little mechanicalcurious #allbroadheadsmatter

 

[kcm2]

For all we know, the broadhead in the original picture may have come from an arrow that deflected after hitting a branch, and entered off-kilter. I don't place much stock in something like this.

 

[Bump79]

My fixed heads and mechanical heads fly the same. If people are choosing a head based off how it flies they are missing alot of details.

Yes and no. I do pick a head based on how they fly - they aren't all created equal that's for sure. I don't get a lot of shots on game but I love to test out different broadheads. Probably 50+ at this point with a lot of shots each. I buy and sell them just for giggles.

What I've learned is that if you're tuned and they spin well pretty much anything will group fine at 40. Step out past that and things start getting weird with some heads. It's extremely predictable though.

• More surface area = worse flight on average
• Larger blade size & more blades = worse flight on average.

​

My mechanicals and solid fixed group together most of the time BUT the when I don't do my job perfectly the mechanical is significantly more forgiving. In the tune of inches at 50.

I'm pretty much saying what you're saying. Just that some heads seem to hit behind the pin much more on average. The heads that make it into my quiver are the ones where they seem to go where I want even when my form fell apart or I pulled it, etc. The reality is that my worst shot in the yard would likely be my best shot in the field and I treat it as such.

 

[fatlander]

Yes and no. I do pick a head based on how they fly - they aren't all created equal that's for sure. I don't get a lot of shots on game but I love to test out different broadheads. Probably 50+ at this point with a lot of shots each. I buy and sell them just for giggles.

What I've learned is that if you're tuned and they spin well pretty much anything will group fine at 40. Step out past that and things start getting weird with some heads. It's extremely predictable though.

• More surface area = worse flight on average
• Larger blade size & more blades = worse flight on average.

​

My mechanicals and solid fixed group together most of the time BUT the when I don't do my job perfectly the mechanical is significantly more forgiving. In the tune of inches at 50.

I'm pretty much saying what you're saying. Just that some heads seem to hit behind the pin much more on average. The heads that make it into my quiver are the ones where they seem to go where I want even when my form fell apart or I pulled it, etc. The reality is that my worst shot in the yard would likely be my best shot in the field and I treat it as such.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. This is the right answer, and it’s the answer that most people would come to if they were honest with themselves. Stacking broadheads in shorts and a t shirt on flat ground with a heart rate below 80 isn’t how you’re going to perform in the field.


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[Bump79]

What you're describing is just poor form. Yes, it's hard to replicate perfect form in the field, and yes, a fixed head will be less forgiving, but I don't see the point in choosing a broadhead based on inevitable form breakdown. Again, my fixed heads hit just fine out to the distances I hunt.

I respect your opinion but I completely disagree with this. It really depends on your hunting conditions. I hunt elk, mule deer or antelope annually but anymore I'm mostly limited to whitetail out of a tree.

In nearly any of my hunting conditions it's almost guaranteed my form will be vastly different that standing in my yard tuning. Especially in steep country or out of a tree. A weak side out out of a tree is a mother trucker and after practicing extensively I'm at least 1" more accurate at 30 yards with a compact or vented fixed or a mechanical.

If I've got say an 8" vitals on a whitetail = 1/8 = 12.5% more likely to hit what I intended. I'll take that increased odds all day every day.

Or even just try drawing your bow and holding it for as long as possible then seeing which broadhead groups the best. These increasingly more common solid designs with a lot of surface area just don't group as well in actual conditions. Do they group well enough at short ranges? Absolutely. Get to 30 yd plus and things get more interesting.

 

[5MilesBack]

It's a beautiful thing when a critter just stands after being hit....looking around like, "What just happened"...then they fall over

No mech head guy can tell you what that feeling is like because they run like their tail is on fire.....

I've never shot an animal with a BH with a tiny cutting diameter (1" or less) so have no experience with that. But every animal I've shot with a fixed head has run immediately. However, I've had three animals just stand there after getting shot with a 3-blade over the top mechanical 1.5" cut, and two others that ran (one 80 yards and the other 37 yards) and piled up.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Likewise, the only animal that didn't run after I shot it with a fixed head was the buck I spined.

 

[fatlander]

Lord willing, I’ll likely shoot about a dozen whitetails over the next couple months with big mechs. I’ll report back to this thread on penetration, blood trailing, distance from shot to death.

Based off past experiences I’m going to say average recovery distance will be 60 yards, red carpet blood trails, and pass throughs, with arrows buried in the dirt, on everything except quartered away shots that bury in the offside shoulder knuckle.


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[S.Clancy]

I have both fixed and mechanical heads in my quiver. The only time I am pulling a fixed head is if I am in close, brush, and the high likelihood of a quartering to or frontal shot. Everything else I am pulling out the SEVR.

 

[Wilderlife]

I respect your opinion but I completely disagree with this. It really depends on your hunting conditions. I hunt elk, mule deer or antelope annually but anymore I'm mostly limited to whitetail out of a tree.

In nearly any of my hunting conditions it's almost guaranteed my form will be vastly different that standing in my yard tuning. Especially in steep country or out of a tree. A weak side out out of a tree is a mother trucker and after practicing extensively I'm at least 1" more accurate at 30 yards with a compact or vented fixed or a mechanical.

If I've got say an 8" vitals on a whitetail = 1/8 = 12.5% more likely to hit what I intended. I'll take that increased odds all day every day.

Or even just try drawing your bow and holding it for as long as possible then seeing which broadhead groups the best. These increasingly more common solid designs with a lot of surface area just don't group as well in actual conditions. Do they group well enough at short ranges? Absolutely. Get to 30 yd plus and things get more interesting.

Absolutely, mate. I agree with what you're describing. the mech heads are more accurate because it's easier for you to shoot consistently and accurately given the conditions you're in. It still comes down to form but if you know form is going to change based on the situations, make the best decisions you can for your own situation.

I hunt as much as I want/can as we have unlimited seasons and bag limits, so we are out and about mucking around with gear all the time. We choose our gear based on a few different factors.

I'm in the process of putting together a video about the broadheads we use so I'll post it in a few places. The emphasis isn't necessarily on them being the best broadheads ever, because they have some drawbacks, but for what we do and the critters we chase they are very hard to beat.

Getting good mech heads in Australia is only a new thing. I had some Sevrs that I bought through a bloke who got some in the USA. Before that it was mostly Rage and other cheaper stuff available here. Now some shops are stocking Sevrs and that's pretty cool. When I build a new arrow setup I'll likely go back to 125gn broadheads so I can have more options as right now I'm using 150gn and none of the Sevrs available here are 150gn.

But that's all just me wanting to muck around and possibly have one or two in the quiver for some longer follow up shots if necessary.

 

[Bump79]

Absolutely, mate. I agree with what you're describing. the mech heads are more accurate because it's easier for you to shoot consistently and accurately given the conditions you're in. It still comes down to form but if you know form is going to change based on the situations, make the best decisions you can for your own situation.

I hunt as much as I want/can as we have unlimited seasons and bag limits, so we are out and about mucking around with gear all the time. We choose our gear based on a few different factors.

I'm in the process of putting together a video about the broadheads we use so I'll post it in a few places. The emphasis isn't necessarily on them being the best broadheads ever, because they have some drawbacks, but for what we do and the critters we chase they are very hard to beat.

Getting good mech heads in Australia is only a new thing. I had some Sevrs that I bought through a bloke who got some in the USA. Before that it was mostly Rage and other cheaper stuff available here. Now some shops are stocking Sevrs and that's pretty cool. When I build a new arrow setup I'll likely go back to 125gn broadheads so I can have more options as right now I'm using 150gn and none of the Sevrs available here are 150gn.

But that's all just me wanting to muck around and possibly have one or two in the quiver for some longer follow up shots if necessary.

You guys have got some great fixed heads down there. I deal Terra Firma here in the states. Kayuga is great too. OzCut started out alright, great designs meh quality.

Don't get me wrong, I like fixed heads. I just like fixed heads that fly extremely well. The trend of shooting really long unvented heads out of compounds is what concerns me.

 

[MuleyBuck]

I have both fixed and mechanical heads in my quiver. The only time I am pulling a fixed head is if I am in close, brush, and the high likelihood of a quartering to or frontal shot. Everything else I am pulling out the SEVR.

Curious your reason for shooting the SEVR? Can you not get fixed blade broadheads to group with your field points out to ethical hunting ranges? If that’s the case and someone has an inability to tune or be consistent in their shooting form, I can see the need for a mechanical, putting them at risk of losing more game.

But if you’re bow is tuned and you can shoot well, seems like the risks of a mechanical, particularly a SEVR which are known to only get half the advertised cut, particularly when a blade bends on a rib or meat gets packed into the swivel portion of the blades, isn’t worth the benefits of a small gain in wind drift.

Especially for elk where nearly all your shots will be at a distance where you should be able to hit your spots equally with a fixed blade vs a low profile mechanical. You can’t tell me you look at those thin, flimsy, rattly blades on a SEVR and think, “wow, these are durable!” Take a Havalon knife and make one slice through the hide of an elk and see how dull the replaceable blades become, then do the same with a quality solid steel knife and compare how well the blades hold up. I’m constantly surprised how dull even my best knives become on elk hide, especially an elk covered in mud and dirt from a wallow.

Curious your thoughts.

 

[S.Clancy]

Curious your reason for shooting the SEVR? Can you not get fixed blade broadheads to group with your field points out to ethical hunting ranges? If that’s the case and someone has an inability to tune or be consistent in their shooting form, I can see the need for a mechanical, putting them at risk of losing more game.

But if you’re bow is tuned and you can shoot well, seems like the risks of a mechanical, particularly a SEVR which are known to only get half the advertised cut, particularly when a blade bends on a rib or meat gets packed into the swivel portion of the blades, isn’t worth the benefits of a small gain in wind drift.

Especially for elk where nearly all your shots will be at a distance where you should be able to hit your spots equally with a fixed blade vs a low profile mechanical. You can’t tell me you look at those thin, flimsy, rattly blades on a SEVR and think, “wow, these are durable!” Take a Havalon knife and make one slice through the hide of an elk and see how dull the replaceable blades become, then do the same with a quality solid steel knife and compare how well the blades hold up. I’m constantly surprised how dull even my best knives become on elk hide, especially an elk covered in mud and dirt from a wallow.

Curious your thoughts.

I'll address your comments in order:

1. I can tune my fixed blade with my field tips and SEVR's out to 60-70 before the extra drag of the fixed blades begins to make them hit low enough I need to adjust.
2. I shoot the SEVR for the large cutting diameter (2.1"). I have a high KE setup. I want big holes
3. As far as elk being "closer" shots, where I hunt that is not the case.
4. I haven't seen any durability issues with the SEVR's and have shot multiple animals with the same head in the same year. I have noticed that the factory "sharp" is not sharp. I sharpen on diamond stones to 2500 grit then strop and they are scary sharp. I think this makes a huge difference in blood trails and penetration, but that is my own anecdotal experience.
5. I carry both in my quiver to completely cover my bases as far as shot type and selection.
6. I've shot 3 (hopefully 4 after this week) elk with them since 2020, 5 antelope and a deer. I would not continue to shoot them if I felt fixed blades were better.
7. Just anecdotally, I have had worse outcomes with fixed blades. I believe this to be primarily based on smaller cutting diameter (not total cutting surface) of a fixed blade vs a mech.

I have reasons for shooting big mechs and people have reasons for shooting small fixed. It's more important to know your setup and its limitations than to be dogmatic with one choice or the other. Hopefully I'm deflating another set of lungs this weekend with the ol SEVR 2.1......

 

[Bump79]

Curious your reason for shooting the SEVR? Can you not get fixed blade broadheads to group with your field points out to ethical hunting ranges? If that’s the case and someone has an inability to tune or be consistent in their shooting form, I can see the need for a mechanical, putting them at risk of losing more game.

But if you’re bow is tuned and you can shoot well, seems like the risks of a mechanical, particularly a SEVR which are known to only get half the advertised cut, particularly when a blade bends on a rib or meat gets packed into the swivel portion of the blades, isn’t worth the benefits of a small gain in wind drift.

Especially for elk where nearly all your shots will be at a distance where you should be able to hit your spots equally with a fixed blade vs a low profile mechanical. You can’t tell me you look at those thin, flimsy, rattly blades on a SEVR and think, “wow, these are durable!” Take a Havalon knife and make one slice through the hide of an elk and see how dull the replaceable blades become, then do the same with a quality solid steel knife and compare how well the blades hold up. I’m constantly surprised how dull even my best knives become on elk hide, especially an elk covered in mud and dirt from a wallow.

Curious your thoughts.

This wasn't directed to me but I also have fixed and mechanical in my quiver at all times. There's plenty of reasons to shoot a Sevr or other well designed mech. Everyone shooting a mechanical should also be able to group with fixed blades. I can shoot my fixed heads out to 80 yds BUT there is zero doubt that a low surface area mechanical will group better and be more forgiving.

I only hunt to 50 for western species but if it's windy, I'm pulling out a mech. If I need to follow up a shot at 80 yards - I'm pulling out a mech. If I'm in steep terrain - I might shoot a mech. There are fixed heads that fly extremely well but compared to a solid machined head, I've tested repeatedly that in higher winds say 20 mph it's a difference of 1-2" at 30 yds. I'm not married to fixed heads enough to potentially wound an animal just for a pass through, especially when I'll probably pass through with the mech anyway. Shots too far back are more common than a bone impact. I'll take a 2" mech that doesn't pass through.

I have never, ever, heard that the Sevr get's half the advertised cut. My friends that have shot them the animals have a larger cut, not smaller, due to the design and steep blades/slap cut on opening. Even Ashby Foundation shot a Sevr 1.5 into a cape buffalo many times and it held up fantastic. Lusk Archery has been them to hell in like 10 videos. They are very very durable for a mech. My buddy shot a spike at 50 with a Sevr 1.5 hybrid and the bloodtrail was immediate and a lot on the ground. Full pass through. I've shot animals in the same location and had significantly less blood. Of course it varies but it makes zero sense that given a pass through

Now the issue with them is that they do rattle (fixable easily though) AND most importantly to me they like to deploy in my quiver. Drives me nutso. I'm switching to Shwacker unless I can find something else I like.

 

[WVELK]

I hear ya for the most part. However, I will absolutely always carry one in my quiver elk hunting. In my opinion - It's a must have for long range follow up shots.

If I have a bull that I shot at reasonable range, then he stops at 90 yards then I'll be launching a mechanical all day everyday. The accuracy is significantly better than even the best fixed heads in real world hunting conditions. If I'm shooting a mech, then I've given up bone penetration and a pass through isn't guaranteed.

A Sevr 2.0 or 1.5 hybrid is my choice.

Bump79, I too hear you for the most part. I agree that even the most conscientious bowhunters taking the most conservative shots will eventually miss. We are human’s after all. However, I respectfully disagree that mechanicals are “significantly better than even the best fixed heads in real world conditions”. This is not the only head that will do this, but I have shot the Slick Trick standard fixed head for elk for probably at least 8 years. That head is as accurate as any field tip, any mechanical when one takes the time to make sure the head in installed properly and the bow is tuned. In fact, I will go so far as to say it is more accurate than a field tip for me. Not a lot, but if I am shooting one tuned fixed head arrow and one tuned field point, the fixed head arrow will consistently hit closer to or in the same hole at 60 yards than the field tip hits in or near the field tip hole.

I will agree that for some guys who don’t take the time or may not yet have a good understanding as to how to get fixed heads ready to hunt, the mechanical is going to shoot better for them. For me, if I am shooting a bull at 90 yards I want that fixed head because there is not going to be as much penetration from the mechanical.

 

[Beendare]

For me, if I am shooting a bull at 90 yards I want that fixed head because there is not going to be as much penetration from the mechanical.

And there it is....grin

 

[Bump79]

Bump79, I too hear you for the most part. I agree that even the most conscientious bowhunters taking the most conservative shots will eventually miss. We are human’s after all. However, I respectfully disagree that mechanicals are “significantly better than even the best fixed heads in real world conditions”. This is not the only head that will do this, but I have shot the Slick Trick standard fixed head for elk for probably at least 8 years. That head is as accurate as any field tip, any mechanical when one takes the time to make sure the head in installed properly and the bow is tuned. In fact, I will go so far as to say it is more accurate than a field tip for me. Not a lot, but if I am shooting one tuned fixed head arrow and one tuned field point, the fixed head arrow will consistently hit closer to or in the same hole at 60 yards than the field tip hits in or near the field tip hole.

I will agree that for some guys who don’t take the time or may not yet have a good understanding as to how to get fixed heads ready to hunt, the mechanical is going to shoot better for them. For me, if I am shooting a bull at 90 yards I want that fixed head because there is not going to be as much penetration from the mechanical.

Fair points. Slick Trick standard are great heads for sure, especially for the price. My testing has still shown that a mech will be more forgiving in flight and accuracy. Windy conditions primarily. Especially the likes of Sevr, Thorn and Shwacker. To each their own though!

I'll continue with them as an option in my quiver. It really depends on what the shot is. My primary is for a follow up shot.

 

[S.Clancy]

Bump79, I too hear you for the most part. I agree that even the most conscientious bowhunters taking the most conservative shots will eventually miss. We are human’s after all. However, I respectfully disagree that mechanicals are “significantly better than even the best fixed heads in real world conditions”. This is not the only head that will do this, but I have shot the Slick Trick standard fixed head for elk for probably at least 8 years. That head is as accurate as any field tip, any mechanical when one takes the time to make sure the head in installed properly and the bow is tuned. In fact, I will go so far as to say it is more accurate than a field tip for me. Not a lot, but if I am shooting one tuned fixed head arrow and one tuned field point, the fixed head arrow will consistently hit closer to or in the same hole at 60 yards than the field tip hits in or near the field tip hole.

I will agree that for some guys who don’t take the time or may not yet have a good understanding as to how to get fixed heads ready to hunt, the mechanical is going to shoot better for them. For me, if I am shooting a bull at 90 yards I want that fixed head because there is not going to be as much penetration from the mechanical.

Your opinion doesn't hold with mathematics. The larger the surface area of a given head, the more drag it creates, the more it can go of course with minor errors in shooting form which all humans have. Basically no one has a statistically significant group size with arrows. Most people shoot 1 broadhead with 2 field points and then "that broadhead flies just like a field point". If you sat down and shot 30 arrows of field points and then 30 arrows with ANY broadhead (mechs included) the group size of that broadhead will be larger than the field points. That one you "pulled" 16" high and to the left is actually a data point that describes the overall group size and variability of whatever broadhead you choose to shoot.

 

[fatlander]

In fact, I will go so far as to say it is more accurate than a field tip for me. Not a lot, but if I am shooting one tuned fixed head arrow and one tuned field point, the fixed head arrow will consistently hit closer to or in the same hole at 60 yards than the field tip hits in or near the field tip hole.

You should share these findings with people that make their living shooting targets. I’m sure they’d be thrilled to learn that 4 blade slick tricks are in fact more accurate than field tips.


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[Bump79]

Your opinion doesn't hold with mathematics. The larger the surface area of a given head, the more drag it creates, the more it can go of course with minor errors in shooting form which all humans have. Basically no one has a statistically significant group size with arrows. Most people shoot 1 broadhead with 2 field points and then "that broadhead flies just like a field point". If you sat down and shot 30 arrows of field points and then 30 arrows with ANY broadhead (mechs included) the group size of that broadhead will be larger than the field points. That one you "pulled" 16" high and to the left is actually a data point that describes the overall group size and variability of whatever broadhead you choose to shoot.

This is what I've found as well. Shooting broadheads for me is like what some guys do with building loads for bullets. I find some I want to try and shoot them a PILE. I work from home now so I can shoot out to 70 at the house to get myself up and moving as a break. I bet I have pushing 2,000 broadhead shots per year. If you shoot enough - you'll notice that some heads just seem to hit behind the pin more often. That shot where you go oooofffffff pulled that one! But it still hits on average that's the head that makes my quiver. Some heads like the popular long unvented solid heads are very unforgiving. Will they fly? Sure. Will they plane off more if you didn't have perfect execution? Yep.

There absolutely are fixed that fly well and make that for me. To be fair - Slick Trick Standards do fly really well. I'd rank them pretty high on my list for fixed heads.