Arrow failure or bad setup vs Elk

[Jethro]

I was thinking elbow or leg hit on first arrow. Could that have been the crack you heard? Blood pouring down the leg is not common on a hit 2” behind crease.

Nothing wrong with your set up. 563 gn at 278 with an iron will on the working end is top notch.

 

[Bobrobheimer]

Just spit balling here - Could the arrow have penetrated the scapula and then as the shaft whips around as it starts to pass through broken off? That would maybe explain the broken arrow and possible lung hit.

 

[gardo]

I was thinking elbow or leg hit on first arrow. Could that have been the crack you heard? Blood pouring down the leg is not common on a hit 2” behind crease.

Nothing wrong with your set up. 563 gn at 278 with an iron will on the working end is top notch.

He never limped or favored the other leg which confuses me even more. I love the setup as far as the weight and speed. Wondering if the half out gave way on impact? Would I be better of with the iron will collar and HIT?

 

[Billy Goat]

He never limped or favored the other leg which confuses me even more. I love the setup as far as the weight and speed. Wondering if the half out gave way on impact? Would I be better of with the iron will collar and HIT?

A SS halfout is likely not the weak point. If anything it might bend a little, but the shaft is weaker.



If worried about it, what does the end of your arrow look like? If it snapped off the last 5" of shaft I'd feel really certain it's not a failure of anything ahead of that point.

 

[gardo]

Just spit balling here - Could the arrow have penetrated the scapula and then as the shaft whips around as it starts to pass through broken off? That would maybe explain the broken arrow and possible lung hit.

I feel I would've had to of been way far forward to hit the scapula wouldn’t I? Can the scapula get back to the crease?

 

[Bobrobheimer]

I am. I’ve listened to a lot of his stuff which prompted me to want an arrow has heavy as I could get and as close to 280 but under 280. That said, I’m wondering if the half out couldn’t hold up to bone hit with that amount of energy?

Right maybe not. I think worth messing with arrow set up before next year. After all his first and most important principal is integrity of the arrow - even if it hits something hard it shouldn’t be breaking.

 

[3forks]

Nothing wrong with your arrows that I would even remotely consider as a potential issue.

My arrow set up is very similar to yours, but I’m shooting Victory VAP shafts. I doubt the half out gave broke on impact. I’ve had more bend than break, and that’s after shooting the wrong pin and hitting a steel frame holding a bag target.

You may never know what happened, but I’m guessing the degree the elk was angled contributed to you not hitting where you thought you did. Don’t recall if you mentioned, but could you have canted your bow?

Your point about not seeing that elk limp off is puzzling if you did hit bone somewhere in the shoulder.

 

[Bobrobheimer]

I feel I would've had to of been way far forward to hit the scapula wouldn’t I? Can the scapula get back to the crease?

No I don’t think so but if you it were a bit higher it could right? I also don’t have a good grasp of how the skeleton can move around depending on their actual position.
How was the shot in terms of up/down hill?

 

[gardo]

A SS halfout is likely not the weak point. If anything it might bend a little, but the shaft is weaker.



If worried about it, what does the end of your arrow look like? If it snapped off the last 5" of shaft I'd feel really certain it's not a failure of anything ahead of that point.

It wasn’t a clean snap if that makes sense. It was like a tear. Some of the arrow (call it the top half) was 2 from the end while the (bottom) half was torn all the way back and off at 5”. There was blood at the end of this tear. Not sure if that helps but I’m not sure how else to explain it and I don’t have the arrow for a pic.

 

[3forks]

No I don’t think so but if you it were a bit higher it could right? I also don’t have a good grasp of how the skeleton can move around depending on their actual position.
How was the shot in terms of up/down hill?

I was going to ask about a downhill or uphill shot, too. OP, I’m sure your 2nd and 3rd axis have been aligned, but that’s about the only other variable if the shot was up or downhill at much of an angle.

 

[Billy Goat]

It wasn’t a clean snap if that makes sense. It was like a tear. Some of the arrow (call it the top half) was 2 from the end while the (bottom) half was torn all the way back and off at 5”. There was blood at the end of this tear. Not sure if that helps but I’m not sure how else to explain it and I don’t have the arrow for a pic.

That sounds like the broadhead was imbedded in bone, he walked past something and caught the fletching end and broke it.

 

[gardo]

Nothing wrong with your arrows that I would even remotely consider as a potential issue.

My arrow set up is very similar to yours, but I’m shooting Victory VAP shafts. I doubt the half out gave broke on impact. I’ve had more bend than break, and that’s after shooting the wrong pin and hitting a steel frame holding a bag target.

You may never know what happened, but I’m guessing the degree the elk was angled contributed to you not hitting where you thought you did. Don’t recall if you mentioned, but could you have canted your bow?

Your point about not seeing that elk limp off is puzzling if you did hit bone somewhere in the shoulder.

Strongly certain my bow wasn’t canted. I felt very good about running through my checks (grip, peep to sight alignment, cant, anchor, smooth pull etc.). Playing it back in my mind, I would say it was a true quartering (45 degree)

 

[3forks]

Strongly certain my bow wasn’t canted. I felt very good about running through my checks (grip, peep to sight alignment, cant, anchor, smooth pull etc.). Playing it back in my mind, I would say it was a true quartering (45 degree)

If I were you, I‘d try to replicate the shots you took using a block target or 3D elk if you have the ability to do so.

You sound like you know what you’re doing, but there’s some voodoo on quartering shots to account for.

 

[gardo]

I was going to ask about a downhill or uphill shot, too. OP, I’m sure your 2nd and 3rd axis have been aligned, but that’s about the only other variable if the shot was up or downhill at much of an angle.

He was slightly below me across the other ridge but not enough for my range finder to make a slope correction. 2nd and 3rd where checked again the week before the trip.

 

[Rob5589]

This is my first post so I want to say thank you for helping me somewhat solve this mystery.

I took a shot at a nice bull this past week. He was 61 yards and slightly quartering away. I hit 2" behind the crease and two inches above center. My aim point was opposite leg and I feel I hit my mark. When the arrow hit, it made a loud crack. The bull when 40 yards and turned towards me with blood pouring down his leg and out of his mouth. We thought he was done but he slowly walked off after 15 minutes of trying to keep him calm with a cow call. I was able to sneak down the ridge and get another arrow in him. Again he was quartering away at 91 yards. Normally I would not take this shot but felt it was needed to put him down. This shot was 6" back from the crease and 3" high of center. I hit him opposite side and the arrow buried all but about 9" into him. I felt great about the placement and he was bleeding badly. He walked over a ridge and we backed out to let him die. We came back 4 hours later. We tracked blood for probably 1500 yards and never found him. Spent the next 3 days and hiked around 20 miles with no luck. By far, one of the worst feelings I've ever had.

I'm shooting a Hoyt Ventum 33. DL is 31". Arrow is 29.25" Black eagle rampage 250 spine with half outs and 30gn front weight, three fletched blazer and nocturnals with an Iron Will S125. Arrow weight is 563gn and pushing 278 fps.

We went back to find my first arrow and discovered it was broken 5" from the end. I assume I got enough penetration to hit one lung since he was bleeding from his mouth?

All that said, I have two questions:
1) Considering where I hit the first time, is it possible to hit the shoulder? It's hard for me to imagine the shoulder being that far back but I wouldn't think a rib would snap my arrow.
2) Considering my KE, do you think my arrow wasn't capable of a solid hit which caused it to snap?

I've never had issues with this arrow/ setup on deer but elk aren't deer. I feel the energy may have been more than the half out could handle but I'm not sure? Not sure if I should stay with this arrow and change to the iron will HIT and collar, start over with a different arrow or just accept this scenario as a fluke and move on.

Again, sorry for the long post but lossing this animal is killing me and I want to get all of the answers I can to hopefully avoid this in the future. Thanks for the help!

Sounds more forward than you think. That arrow is rock solid. Do you have the hits on camera to know how far off your aim point was?

 

[Beendare]

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[gardo]

That sounds like the broadhead was imbedded in bone, he walked past something and caught the fletching end and broke it.

I remember seeing the knock end, specifically my fletching, take a hard down and right after impact. At that point, I had no idea how much penetration I got and just saw blood coming from where I hit but the arrow broke at impact.

 

[Coveyleader]

My experience on quartering shots, not matter how slight we think it may be, quartering means you’re always better hitting back, way back is better than slightly forward.

anyways, we are all guessing. It sucks!

 

[gardo]

I think Billy Goat ^is right on the money. How many times have we seen it where an arrow on a hunting shot didn't hit where we thought it did? [Guilty here myself]

Unless the OP is shooting straight fletch....that arrow had plenty of time at 60 yds to fly straight even if it started out of tune....so a 563 gr arrow at 285 fps should blow through rib bones no problemo.

Heck, My recurve shooting almost that exact weight arrow blew through moose ribs on both sides...and its shooting almost exactly 100 FPS slower!

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There was substantial blood coming from my aim point. I’m sure I was off my mark to some degree considering nerves but the blood told me where I hit. I shoot a left offset/ slight helical and the bow is tuned. The iron wills were matching field tip arrows out to 70 yards the day before I left for the trip

 

[BigCountry49]

It is very difficult to know your point of impact on a 60 yard shot. Sounds like you hit heavy bone.