Arizona does away with auction tags

[KHNC]

Don’t forget about those outfitters over there. There’s at least one or two in on that racket

Yes, they are the ones that gave the ranchers the idea in the first place .haha

 

[Shō[t]gun]

Expand.

It’s already done in conjunction with non-profits. They could just give the tag(s) to the non-profits for the auction under the blanket of “earmarked for conservation purposes as seen fit by XXX”. Then it was never government money in the first place.
It would be no different than giving away a landowner tag that they turn around and auction off for personal profit.

 

[CorbLand]

It’s already done in conjunction with non-profits. They could just give the tag(s) to the non-profits for the auction under the blanket of “earmarked for conservation purposes as seen fit by XXX”. Then it was never government money in the first place.
It would be no different than giving away a landowner tag that they turn around and auction off for personal profit.

Someone way smarter than me would have to clarify but I am not sure that can be done. 501C3s, which are the vast majority of non profits in the hunting space, can’t use funds for things like lobbying. Can tags be given to 501C4s to be auctioned off?

 

[180ls1]

It’s not a perfect world. I wish it didn’t have to happen, but the reality is, wildlife needs help, especially habitat.

Came here to say exactly that. "Necessary evil." Evil is too strong of a word but you get the point.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

Someone way smarter than me would have to clarify but I am not sure that can be done. 501C3s, which are the vast majority of non profits in the hunting space, can’t use funds for things like lobbying. Can tags be given to 501C4s to be auctioned off?

Not sure, but seeing as every politician in NA owns a home worth more than they’ve made in their career… I’d say money can “legally” make its way just about anywhere if you try hard enough.

 

[CorbLand]

Not sure, but seeing as every politician in NA owns a home worth more than they’ve made in their career… I’d say money can “legally” make its way just about anywhere if you try hard enough.

Promoting corruption as a form of fighting corruption is a no win solution.

 

[Steve O]

Here are some FYIs; I am a life member of the Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society. I’m pretty sure that is and has been a volunteer run organization for its entire existence. They do a LOT of the conservation work for sheep in AZ in conjunction with AZGFD.

They were strongly opposed to eliminating the auction tag.

Here is the President’s Message from their publication “The Ram’s Horn” which I received in the mail today. Nothing here about the elimination of permits (they had email/social media communications about it) but some good info about money raised and projects done:










How many of you complaining about where the money goes and how it is spent are actually donating anything more than your license fees if that? There are plenty of folks out there with a ton of skin in the game in money, time, and effort that are happy to have funds to work with.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

Promoting corruption as a form of fighting corruption is a no win solution.

Not promoting corruption, just saying if politicians can find ways to funnel money to their own pockets so easily then funding a public outreach PR campaign through auction proceeds shouldn’t be too hard to accomplish morally and legally. I’m not gonna try becoming a lawyer today so I can’t tell ya what the process would look like.

Edit: fine, I did 5 minutes of google lawyering. They can do a little lobbying as long as the money hasn’t been earmarked for anything else specific, and isn’t a substantial part of their operation. Up to interpretation I guess.

Lobbying | Internal Revenue Service

Overview of federal tax rules that apply to lobbying by section 501(c)(3) organizations.

www.irs.gov

 

[CorbLand]

Not promoting corruption, just saying if politicians can find ways to funnel money to their own pockets so easily then funding a public outreach PR campaign through auction proceeds shouldn’t be too hard to accomplish morally and legally. I’m not gonna try becoming a lawyer today so I can’t tell ya what the process would look like.

Edit: fine, I did 5 minutes of google lawyering. They can do a little lobbying as long as the money hasn’t been earmarked for anything else specific, and isn’t a substantial part of their operation. Up to interpretation I guess.

Lobbying | Internal Revenue Service

Overview of federal tax rules that apply to lobbying by section 501(c)(3) organizations.

www.irs.gov

I am not trying to argue with you but that link specifically states that the only thing a 501C3 could do with the money is provide “educational material” and if I remember correctly that educational material must be shown as being non biased.

Going back to the original post I quoted. A 501C3 could not effectively use the funding from these tags to make a difference. It would have to be done through an entity that could use the funds for lobbying.

Now, if these tags could be given to a 501C4, it could be used to achieve the goal in the post I quoted. I would suspect that the tags could be given to a 501C4 to be auctioned but donations to 501C4s are not tax deductible. They likely wouldn’t fetch such high prices.

I am far from an expert, there are plenty on here that understand this far better than me. I do hope they will chime in and correct the areas that I am incorrect on.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

I am not trying to argue with you but that link specifically states that the only thing a 501C3 could do with the money is provide “educational material” and if I remember correctly that educational material must be shown as being non biased.

I don't take criticism or questioning as arguing. Educational material pushed to the public could have swayed the vote against lion and bear hunting in a few states. Just have to show them the consequences of overpopulation and how animals suffer from lack of management. Zero bias involved.

I am far from an expert, there are plenty on here that understand this far better than me. I do hope they will chime in and correct the areas that I am incorrect on

same.

 

[MattB]

Be interesting to see if these funds are what really caused the increase in those tags. They have an auction tag for deer and I don’t think anyone would say that they are doing better because of it.

Sheep are what I know best in this context and deploying gov’t funds is definitely part of it. When you look at the development and maintenance of water sources and translocations to return sheep to historical habitat, that is a big part of the increase in sheep numbers. That, coupled with the contribution of labor by many of the volunteer organizations that exist, have been a real success.

 

[william schmaltz]

State statute determines who can get specific tags and how the money can be spent.

For instance, in AK, Big Game Tags can be applied for by “any nonprofit dedicated to fish and game law enforcement, management of hunted game species, or use of game populations for hunting.” Up to 30% of net proceeds may be retained by the organization and that portion may only be used to support outdoor tradition education projects and conservation and wildlife protection programs approved by the department and may not be used to make a contribution to any candidate for political office or to any organization supporting or opposing ballot propositions or to pay expenses associated with lobbying the legislature or administration. The 70% back to the department goes into the general department fund. Not species specific funds. The other route is Partnership Program Tags which must go to an organization established to promote education in outdoor traditions and conservation and wildlife protection programs in partnership with the department, subject to terms of memo of agreement. AK only has a few of these tags, and they’re not the sheep, bear, and goat tags.

In short it could be argued that depending on the state, an auctioned off sheep tag has negligible funding towards actual sheep projects. A $100k Chugach tag would have roughly $70k going into the general fund and theoretically $30k could be donated to a specific sheep project within the department. The $70k would get P&R matching, I don’t think the 30% would unless it was donated back through the general fund (please someone step in and all correct if needed). It could also be noted that an organization like HOWL has a mission statement of educating alongside lobbying, I’d imagine they could play the different colored money game. Use the money from a governor tag for the education and that would free up more money for lobbying. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. But there are certainly hunting nonprofits here that receive these tags and are promoting development projects for instance and donating to lobbying groups but also have a foot in education projects.

It ties back to “we should just charge for a sheep tag so we can do more sheep research with that money.” Im not against paying for a tag, but that’s general fund money, not sheep money or elk money or whatever. Those funds need earmarking through a legislative process or they’re probably just being used for ptarmigan research. That’s why most states have their habitat stamp. Or in AK we have a king stamp.

In ND, any nonprofit can apply for these tags and can spend the money however. You will see hockey teams and nursing homes raffling elk tags. They do, however, legislatively earmark one big horn tag to directly fund big horn sheep research and projects. I’ve worked on transplants there directly funded by the governor tag.

So there’s a lot of grey area. A lot of half truths from these nonprofits. And a lot a state by state discrepancy.

 

[Weldor]

Here are some FYIs; I am a life member of the Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society. I’m pretty sure that is and has been a volunteer run organization for its entire existence. They do a LOT of the conservation work for sheep in AZ in conjunction with AZGFD.

They were strongly opposed to eliminating the auction tag.

Here is the President’s Message from their publication “The Ram’s Horn” which I received in the mail today. Nothing here about the elimination of permits (they had email/social media communications about it) but some good info about money raised and projects done:

View attachment 689181


View attachment 689183


View attachment 689184


How many of you complaining about where the money goes and how it is spent are actually donating anything more than your license fees if that? There are plenty of folks out there with a ton of skin in the game in money, time, and effort that are happy to have funds to work with.

Kind of strong words coming from a non-resident. The is well spent sometimes. They put sheep in my backyard and the cats had sheep for dinner for a year. Not always good decisions.

 

[def90]

Last year Arizona auctioned a mule deer tag for $725k. I can’t seem to find the total number of tags Arizona sold last year but it is easy to do the math to see how that money really comoares to tag sales.

I did find an article that stated that Arizona capped NR otc tags at 10% which came to 2890 tags which means that there were at least 28900 otc tags. Just with otc tags if you wanted to make up for the lost $725k an otc tab would have to go up $25. Add in the draw tags and you’re probably looking at $10.

Rich guys will just have to find something else to spend money on.

 

[Gobbler36]

Here are some FYIs; I am a life member of the Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society. I’m pretty sure that is and has been a volunteer run organization for its entire existence. They do a LOT of the conservation work for sheep in AZ in conjunction with AZGFD.

They were strongly opposed to eliminating the auction tag.

Here is the President’s Message from their publication “The Ram’s Horn” which I received in the mail today. Nothing here about the elimination of permits (they had email/social media communications about it) but some good info about money raised and projects done:

View attachment 689181


View attachment 689183


View attachment 689184


How many of you complaining about where the money goes and how it is spent are actually donating anything more than your license fees if that? There are plenty of folks out there with a ton of skin in the game in money, time, and effort that are happy to have funds to work with.

Ok I get they returned the money
but what I don’t see here is what did all those projects cost in total? how much of the 100% funds that went to AZ g& f got used on said projects and others, all I see here is mental masturbation. it’d be nice to have a full breakdown of that money once it left the auction winners account

 

[wapitibob]

I am not trying to argue with you but that link specifically states that the only thing a 501C3 could do with the money is provide “educational material” and if I remember correctly that educational material must be shown as being non biased.

Several 501C's have hosted "educational" events at shows this year, hosting CRWM, which is a C4, as the speaker. Hosting an educational event is how the C3's are getting past the lobbying restrictions. Newberg was talking about it the other day.

 

[MuleyFever]

I get that these tags bring in money but I hate that the opportunity is taken from the general public and given to the ultra rich. I would much prefer that all these auction tags go back into the draw and they charge a little more for a license or a point. It wouldn't take much per applicant to make up the difference.

 

[mtnbiker208]

did the common man steal one from the rich, or did the common man screw himself.
All depends on perspective.

 

[Kopmana]

I think the resource is going to suffer in the name of “equity”. Not only do raffles generally bring in less than auction tags, they cost more to administer and adding more raffle tags (especially those where you need to be in state to buy) will further limit the revenue potential - not to mention cannibalize the existing raffles.

I looked at some numbers the other day, and sheep tags in AZ are 40%+ over the past 30 years, and I have to believe auction tag money was integral to the expansion of public draw opportunities.

For those who are hung up on rich guys being able to buy an auction tag, are you happy to do away with that if it actually means less potential opportunity for yourself in the future?

I agree 100% its a sad day.

 

[bojangles808]

pretty dumb to get rid of them.