Are Trap Bar Deadlifts the way to go?

[Coach Chris]

Deadlift with poor form has become very popular.....

Especially for really high reps as fast as possible or faster

 

[LostArra]

Especially for really high reps as fast as possible or faster

Hey Coach wouldn't you say any lifting done as fast as possible (or faster) has a greater opportunity for injury? But that wouldn't be the fault of the exercise but the manner in which it is excecuted.

 

[*zap*]

I am no expert but if someone is new to deadlifts it may be a good idea to first do glute bridge, rdl's and good mornings. Rdl's with chest up shoulders back as exaggerated as possible and keep bar in contact with the legs. Good mornings with chest up shoulder back and hip hinge enough that the bar travels in a straight vertical path thru the rom. Straight arm pushdowns on a cable machine is also a good accessory exercise for dl's.
If your caved in forward up top doing rdl's its too much weight and it may suck but accept that it will take time to build up those muscles by using less weight. Doing the rdl movement with a 25-45# plate in each hand while keeping the hands in contact with the sides of your legs or just off of them may help.
If the bar is traveling forward as you do the good mornings you need to develop a better hip hinge and strength so it may take some time with the correct amount of weight. It may not be a good idea to start dl's until you have developed a proper hip hinge and appropriate strength in the muscles groups used in the movement by focusing first on these other exercise's.
I think that if your doing dl's with poor form and poor posture you just accentuating the poor posture and looking for trouble. It is much easier to do trap bar dl's and keep your posture correct but that may not be as good as actually strengthening your body to keep that upright posture before starting bar dl's.
Farmers carries/trap bar carries (heavy) with an exaggerated chest up/shoulders back posture, short slow steps and landing on the balls of your feet (30-45 second duration) may also be good to gain the strength you need (core/lower back). Concentrate on hip hinge when lifting & lowering the weight. Starting the lift with a lower hip position will also accentuate the hip hinge vs a high hip position but you may not be able to lift as much weight. So, if you need to work on your hip hinge it may be a good idea to lift from a low hip start position.

 

[Poser]

Especially for really high reps as fast as possible or faster

Yeah, that is asinine. I will also contend that it is not actually a deadlift. Deadlift = “dead” weight. If you bounce it off the floor, you are not pulling dead weight.

 

[Bmoore]

In my research, and I read a lot about lifting, the mostly highly recommended by forums, coaches, and industry experts alike are plans for beginning lifters that focus on the major compound movements including bench, squat, row, overhead presses, and the conventional deadlift. People new to lifting should focus on form in these basic movements and gain a foundation of overall strength. The reason these are the foundation of any good workout is because they recruit the most amount of muscle and proved the highest possible benefits. The trap bar is not included on these plans because it is simply not nearly as effective at recruiting the most amount of muscle in the most efficient fashion.

I have read one study by a college strength coach which talked about adding the trap bar to lifting programs for college athletes because in his research it receuited the quads in a fashion which seemed to correlate to a better 40 yard dash. This was the primary focus for him using the trap bar. It helped increase sprint times. He never once suggested it was a replacement for the regular deadlift, not did he suggest that the conventional deadlift was more dangerous. Only that for a very specific performance factor for a specific level of athlete with specific goals in mind, the trap bar was a useful tool in achieving the goals he was lookin for. My point is that though I have heard some mention of using the trap bar, it has never been as a replacement for the conventional deadlift, only that it can be used for specific goals.

In general I would argue, and I don’t think I’m alone in thinking this, the conventional deadlift is the most efficient exercise there is to achieve foundational strength. No other exercise has the upside potentional that properly performed deadlifts have.

Again in my research, there’s no substantial risk to doing deadlifts. The risk is extremely minimal when done properly in a well structured program and the upside to the overall strength gained far outweighs any risk. There is always talk about deadlifts, and squats for that matter, being bad for you. But in my experience this sentiment only really comes from people with little to no experience in the fitness industry’s and who never put the effort into learning how to perform these lifts properly.

I’m no expert. I will not pretend to be. But I can reiterate the sentiments I have heard from a wide range of opinions of find in researching fitness. Which is something i still do on a regular basis. And from that research the above are my conclusions. And it would seem to me that the majority opinion in the fitness industry is along the same lines. There may be a few experts with differing opinions, but for every expert that has a differnat opinion on the matter, id say there’s 9 others who agree.

And that’s the end of my rant.

 

[307]

I'm not saying wl is trending down in general pop. Crossfit has made weightlifting more popular that at any time in history. Hence the platforms and bumper plates. Red herring.

The first pull in both snatch and cj are both very different than a conventional dl, and generally done well below dl loads. I wouldn't call the first pull a dl, and have never seen it listed as such in my years of competitive wl. I dont believe every time you pick something up off the floor it would be in the category of dl. Could just as easily be listed a squat.

My statement was in regard to the perception and use of dl in professional level athletes, and its selection based upon risk to the athlete.

 

[Coach Chris]

Hey Coach wouldn't you say any lifting done as fast as possible (or faster) has a greater opportunity for injury? But that wouldn't be the fault of the exercise but the manner in which it is excecuted.

Yes
I was poking fun at crossfit and other such craziness

 

[Cameron945]

Mr Rippetoe has a way with words

Why the Trap Bar is Completely Useless | Mark Rippetoe

Mark Rippetoe talks about why the trap bar is a poor and unsafe substitute for the barbell for pulling off the floor.

startingstrength.com

I have no opinion. Never used a trap bar.

That was a great video for the simple fact that it's Mark Rip! What would you expect from the guy that wrote Starting Strength and Mean Ol' Mr. Gravity? It's not any more dangerous than a deadlift. "Lack of accuracy and precision," I doubt it. There is some research that shows it can enhance explosiveness in the vertical jump more than barbell deadlifts. I reckon because the movement is more biomechanically similar to jumps than the barbell deadlift is. The movement taxes the upper back in a different way, which is nice when trying add variety to your lifting. Nonetheless, Mark Rip is OLD SCHOOL, and still awesome.

 

[JMasson]

If you’ve got lower back issues but still want to pick up heavy stuff, go with what works. Sumo is good. Trap bar is good to. Focus a little on technique. As others rightly point out you can get more quad activation and less posterior chain from a trap bar, but that can happen on a barbell too.

There seems to be a good number of studies that suggest heavy lifting with load bearing skeletal muscles is a great way to boost longevity as well as strength and fitness. Don’t let someone else’s dogmatic views about bars and equipment keep you from doing what works for you. Much better to do what you can than not lift heavy. Bottom line is, if it is medically advisable given your limitations, finding some version that works for you is the right answer.

BTW - read a study about the new Army fitness test, which now includes trap bar deadlift, that said they found trap bar was less prone to injury and a better indicator of overall strength. So there is that.

I am currently on active duty and I will say that the study is garbage. Soldiers are still injuring themselves and the trap bar isn't helping to change that. There's a myriad of reasons for this but at the end of the day, I am not a believer in the trap bar. It is not safer and does not make one less prone to injury than a conventional barbell deadlift. I am bearing witness to the injuries that are occurring and I fully believe that a barbell would be a safer option for us. There isn't a single point in time that a modern Soldier will not need a stronger posterior chain.

 

[*zap*]

FWIW, there are some very good lifts that may be good to help with the deadlift. Glute bridge, good morning, straight arm pushdown, standing barbell shoulder press and rdl, obviously form is #1 for these and the dl.
From what I see @ the gym the larger majority of people do not do these exercises with good form and I would think that is where the majority of injuries come from. Add on people who are not putting in the time for a good foundation and between the two you have the larger majority of injuries from those two things not the lift or equipment used. Most folks have not developed the strength to keep the bar on the legs and the shoulders back/chest up/engaged or straight spine.
Watched a strongman show on TV @ the gym this weekend, guy deadlifted over 1000#. He had the bar a bit forward of his ankles and got set up then dropped his hips and rolled the bar onto his legs and lifted. I would imagine the momentum of rolling the bar helps keep it on the lags for that one rep.....

 

[Desk Jockey]

I am currently on active duty and I will say that the study is garbage. Soldiers are still injuring themselves and the trap bar isn't helping to change that. There's a myriad of reasons for this but at the end of the day, I am not a believer in the trap bar. It is not safer and does not make one less prone to injury than a conventional barbell deadlift. I am bearing witness to the injuries that are occurring and I fully believe that a barbell would be a safer option for us. There isn't a single point in time that a modern Soldier will not need a stronger posterior chain.

i think you missed nearly every point of my response. Maybe go back and read the OPs post and the posts that I was responding to which indicated that if someone with a medical limitation could not do straight bar deadlifts then they were wasting there time with any other alternative.

For your benefit, Let me summarize and I will use small words. Do what works. Something is better than nothing.

oh yeah, surprise, surprise army people are hurting themselves doing intense, heavy, technique dependent lifting After they roll out the new pt test format with probably limited training and phase in periods. Imagine that. Something tells me trap bars or straight bars would be producing a similar result. I recall writing an incident report on a private that impaled himself on a picket doing grass drills and another that knocked himself out slipping off the bar doing Kipping pull ups. It doesn’t surprise me that PT injuries are still occurring with regularity.

 

[Poser]

i think you missed nearly every point of my response. Maybe go back and read the OPs post and the posts that I was responding to which indicated that if someone with a medical limitation could not do straight bar deadlifts then they were wasting there time with any other alternative.

For your benefit, Let me summarize and I will use small words. Do what works. Something is better than nothing.

oh yeah, surprise, surprise army people are hurting themselves doing intense, heavy, technique dependent lifting After they roll out the new pt test format with probably limited training and phase in periods. Imagine that. Something tells me trap bars or straight bars would be producing a similar result. I recall writing an incident report on a private that impaled himself on a picket doing grass drills and another that knocked himself out slipping off the bar doing Kipping pull ups. It doesn’t surprise me that PT injuries are still occurring with regularity.

I knew a guy who broke his jaw while spotting someone squatting during Army PT.