Anyone using Hornady ELD Match for LR hunting?

[odin0226]

As far as nose length, I suppose its a matter of definition. Pictures don't lie though, and you can visually see that the 215 offers more surface are out front to aide in expansion.

 

[30338]

180 ELD-M at 3030 fps muzzle velocity. Mule deer buck in WY at 380 yards. Massive entrance wound, no fragments made it to opposite in broadside rib hit. Deer was poleaxed but not what I am looking for. Decided to try again. Colorado mature whitetail at 650 yards. Bullet quartered through left front shoulder and ended up in opposite rib cage. Again poleaxed and better bullet performance. Perhaps at a slower speed they would be fine based on this? Headed back to 195 VLD or possibly 180 Scenar for 2018. I do have a bunch of 147 ELD-M and will be shooting them at around 2700 or less. Expecting good results there.

 

[danmayland]

Firearm is 7LRM shooting 180 ELDM @ 3066fps. Shot my MT mule deer this weekend. 684 yards right into the boilermaker. Shot was 3” behind the heart and a little lower that I was hoping. Bullet entered normally and exited with a 3” diameter hole. Buck bled a ton and made it about 50 yards before expiring. He took a good solid 5 minutes to die and I was not happy with that result. I tried a couple of follow up shots but wind was bad and he moved when I shot. I’ll post up the video tomorrow when I get back into cell range. I didn’t take any pics of the damage but bullet did fragment some doing massive damage to lungs and liver. I have no doubt had the shot been 3” higher or 3” into the heart he would have died much sooner. It was certainly a mortal shot I just prefer them to die instantly. Pics and vid to come!


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[desertcj]

Firearm is 7LRM shooting 180 ELDM @ 3066fps. Shot my MT mule deer this weekend. 684 yards right into the boilermaker. Shot was 3” behind the heart and a little lower that I was hoping. Bullet entered normally and exited with a 3” diameter hole. Buck bled a ton and made it about 50 yards before expiring. He took a good solid 5 minutes to die and I was not happy with that result. I tried a couple of follow up shots but wind was bad and he moved when I shot. I’ll post up the video tomorrow when I get back into cell range. I didn’t take any pics of the damage but bullet did fragment some doing massive damage to lungs and liver. I have no doubt had the shot been 3” higher or 3” into the heart he would have died much sooner. It was certainly a mortal shot I just prefer them to die instantly. Pics and vid to come!


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In this instance, I don't really see how you can blame the bullet? 3" exit, what more do you want?

 

[danmayland]

In this instance, I don't really see how you can blame the bullet? 3" exit, what more do you want?

I agree completely. More expansion would have been nice. I feel the Berger Hybrids are a bit more explosive. I’ve made similar shots on antelope and deer and they explosiveness of the Berger annihilated all the internal organs resulting in immediate death. I wouldn’t hesitate to use them again and I will for sure!! I’ve still got an elk tag in my pocket!!


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[Jordan Smith]

Firearm is 7LRM shooting 180 ELDM @ 3066fps. Shot my MT mule deer this weekend. 684 yards right into the boilermaker. Shot was 3” behind the heart and a little lower that I was hoping. Bullet entered normally and exited with a 3” diameter hole. Buck bled a ton and made it about 50 yards before expiring. He took a good solid 5 minutes to die and I was not happy with that result. I tried a couple of follow up shots but wind was bad and he moved when I shot. I’ll post up the video tomorrow when I get back into cell range. I didn’t take any pics of the damage but bullet did fragment some doing massive damage to lungs and liver. I have no doubt had the shot been 3” higher or 3” into the heart he would have died much sooner. It was certainly a mortal shot I just prefer them to die instantly. Pics and vid to come!


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They can only die so fast, regardless of how much the bullet expands

Sounds like that bullet expanded and did plenty of damage- some animals just take longer to die than others.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Anyone using Hornaday ELD Match for LR hunting?

Firearm is 7LRM shooting 180 ELDM @ 3066fps. Shot my MT mule deer this weekend. 684 yards right into the boilermaker. Shot was 3” behind the heart and a little lower that I was hoping. Bullet entered normally and exited with a 3” diameter hole. Buck bled a ton and made it about 50 yards before expiring. He took a good solid 5 minutes to die and I was not happy with that result. I tried a couple of follow up shots but wind was bad and he moved when I shot. I’ll post up the video tomorrow when I get back into cell range. I didn’t take any pics of the damage but bullet did fragment some doing massive damage to lungs and liver. I have no doubt had the shot been 3” higher or 3” into the heart he would have died much sooner. It was certainly a mortal shot I just prefer them to die instantly. Pics and vid to come!


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Shoot a 30cal with a big bigger bullet then

This was the first year I used a 7RM and 28 Nosler. All the animals died! But the elk(three) seem to walk around for awhile.

I will be going back to the RUM with 230s or 245s for elk!

 

[Jordan Smith]

Shoot a 30cal with a big bigger bullet then

This was the first year I used a 7RM and 28 Nosler. All the animals died! But the elk(three) seem to walk around for awhile.

I will be going back to the RUM with 230s or 245s for elk!

Massive damage is massive damage. A bigger cal wouldn't have made a difference if the lungs were thoroughly thrashed.

 

[maninthemaze]

Shoot a 30cal with a big bigger bullet then

This was the first year I used a 7RM and 28 Nosler. All the animals died! But the elk(three) seem to walk around for awhile.

I will be going back to the RUM with 230s or 245s for elk!

What about a 338 shooting the 285 ELDM? Do you think the results would be similar. I'm thinking about building some sort of 338 that will mag feed.

Just my 2 cents and worth the price charged.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Massive damage is massive damage. A bigger cal wouldn't have made a difference if the lungs were thoroughly thrashed.

I totally disagree! Yeah, the animal is dead but how long they stay on there feet seems to change drastically as the caliber and bullet size go up. And I don’t want to hear that high shoulder crap!

Killed two elk and watched my son kill his elk with a 28 Nosler this year. They just don’t anchor them as fast as a big 30 Cal. It gets worse as the range increases.

Broz told me this but I had to see it for myself.

You can believe whatever you want it’s America! I’ve already ordered my 30 Cal barrel.

 

[Ryan Avery]

What about a 338 shooting the 285 ELDM? Do you think the results would be similar. I'm thinking about building some sort of 338 that will mag feed.

Just my 2 cents and worth the price charged.

I have never used them.

The Berger 300 OTMs work amazing


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[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Were all the 7mm where they walked around long range? I'm aware of what broz has said on 30cal+ for long range on elk and I find in believable but at 400 and under (not long range) I haven't had elk wander around with my 280AI the last 3 seasons I've had it. I am shooting a 145LRX from it but I do crowd into the shoulder and do not shoot for rear lungs. Here's my limited info: 2015 @ 365 yd bull fell on spot but was moving its head when I got to it still. 2016 @ 170yd bull ran 30yds and crumpled. 2017 @ 400yd bull ran uphill a few yards and crumpled. Antelope/deer similar results as expected.

As for the thread I have a 300wsm on the way, I plan to work up a load for the 208eldm for target work and potentially long range hunt, I will not be using it at closer range though. I plan to us a mono closer in (personal preference) esp. seeing how much gets trashed by the eld series at closer ranges.

 

[mtnwrunner]

I totally disagree! Yeah, the animal is dead but how long they stay on there feet seems to change drastically as the caliber and bullet size go up. And I don’t want to hear that high shoulder crap!

Killed two elk and watched my son kill his elk with a 28 Nosler this year. They just don’t anchor them as fast as a big 30 Cal. It gets worse as the range increases.

Broz told me this but I had to see it for myself.

You can believe whatever you want it’s America! I’ve already ordered my 30 Cal barrel.

This^^^^^^^^^^. There ain't no substitute for horsepower.

Randy

 

[odin0226]

My Outfitter friends in WY say the exact same thing, 7mm is ok - 30 cal much better. Like broz, theyve seen hundreds of elk shot. I consider these guys SME's and chose a 300 RUM over a 28 Nosler.

 

[desertcj]

If that's the case, why stop at a 30 cal? .338 or bust sounds like the ticket.....

 

[Ryan Avery]

Anyone using Hornaday ELD Match for LR hunting?

If that's the case, why stop at a 30 cal? .338 or bust sounds like the ticket.....

One reason for me. I can’t spot my hits with a sub 10 pound rifle chambered in a big 338.

But there is no arguing from me. A big 338 with a 300 grain bullet puts them down!


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[Jordan Smith]

I totally disagree! Yeah, the animal is dead but how long they stay on there feet seems to change drastically as the caliber and bullet size go up. And I don’t want to hear that high shoulder crap!

Killed two elk and watched my son kill his elk with a 28 Nosler this year. They just don’t anchor them as fast as a big 30 Cal. It gets worse as the range increases.

Broz told me this but I had to see it for myself.

You can believe whatever you want it’s America! I’ve already ordered my 30 Cal barrel.

I think you missed the point. The only thing that makes larger caliber bullets and more velocity kill better or faster, is that they destroy more tissue. If the vital tissue is already completely annihilated, a bigger bullet won't kill any faster. As you pointed out, you're free to believe what you want, but science is not subject to rumor or hype. What kills critters is tissue damage and holes through vital organs. The bigger the hole and the more extensive the damage, the more likely they are to die quickly. The bigger the caliber, the more potential damage can be done on average, but I've spent enough time guiding and killing my own critters that I don't buy the rhetoric that bigger calibers always kill quicker. I may not have seen near the number of elk die that Broz has, but I've seen a lot of critters of all sorts hit the turf, ranging from WT, MD, elk, moose, bear, goat, sheep, antelope, caribou, etc, etc. IME, bigger is not always better. YMMV, and that's fine with me.

As desertcj alluded to, and you elaborated on, there are trade-offs when selecting a chambering or a caliber. If you really want to drop elk on the spot every time, forget that pansy .30 cal, and move straight to a 20mm. The image of a .22-250 on a gopher comes to mind- they don't walk away from that. Of course I'm being facetious, but the point is that enough tissue damage is enough tissue damage. Some people will prefer to err on the side of a little more tissue damage and a less shootable rifle, more recoil, higher cost, more blast. Other people will prefer to err on the side of slightly less tissue damage, a more shootable rifle, less cost, less recoil, less blast, easier to spot shots, etc, all of which allows more practice and greater precision. It's no secret that current 7mm bullets have lower form factors than .308" bullets, and are superior in exterior ballistic terms. They may do a hair less tissue damage when they arrive, but they are a little easier to place perfectly at long range than .308" bullets. And because of the lower form factor, the further out you go, the more the 7mm closes the gap with the .30. For my uses, I'll take slightly less tissue damage placed perfectly, over more tissue damage placed slightly less perfectly, any day. Or course, that's just my opinion. IME, 7mm and .308" are so close that we're arguing very minor differences, so I won't slight you if your preferences differ from my own.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Anyone using Hornaday ELD Match for LR hunting?

So you think an elk shot in the same exact place at 900 yards with a 195 will act the same as one shot with a 230 grain bullet?

At Long range one cannot always place ‘perfect’ shots. Hell people at close range can’t always place ‘perfect’ shots.

I’m not talking about under 600 yards. How may elk have you shot or seen shot passed 600 yards? I’m not trying to be a dick just trying to understand you point of view?


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[Jordan Smith]

First of all, that's not even remotely what I said. I said that it's easier and more likely to place your shots better when you have less wind drift, less recoil, greater ability to spot your shots during practice, higher volume of shooting due to less recoil/blast/cost, etc. Will an elk hit perfectly with a 195 act the same as one hit with a 230 in the same spot? Lots of times, yes. Some times, no. The same could be said for a 230 versus a 300, except that the difference between the 7mm and .308" is 35gr and 0.024", and the difference between the .308" and the .338" is 70gr and 0.030". None-the-less, many times animals hit with the 230 will react just like they would if hit with a 300. Other times you'll notice a difference. But not always.

I think I was pretty clear about my point of view in my previous post. No need to bust out the ruler. I'm not sure why you specified elk, as this isn't the elk hunting forum, but I've seen a bunch of animals, including elk, shot beyond 600. I've seen a lot of animals shot closer than that, and some out around 1000, too. Distance of the shot isn't overly pertinent to this discussion, other than to say that some bullets lose velocity quicker, and drift more in the wind, than others. Impact linear velocity, and to some degree rotational velocity, as well as bullet mass and caliber are really all that matter when talking terminal effects, assuming identical bullet construction. In one case I was laying next to my buddy, and we each had an elk tag. Shot distance was over a little over 600. I was shooting a 162AM from a 7WSM, and he was shooting a 208AM from a .300WM. We both shot an elk in the vitals. Guess which one fell first. A 162 at 893 meters anchored his elk. In another case, I was guiding a couple of caribou hunters. One was using a .25-06, the other a .338WM. Both shot caribou at ~250 yards. Bull caribou can exhibit similar vitality to elk if they're not put down right away with the first shot. The bull hit with the 100gr .257" bullet dropped at the shot. The bull hit with the 225gr .338" bullet took 4 hits through the vitals from various angles, and required a finisher when we finally walked up on it. All hits were through the shoulders ranging from broadside to quartering. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. You just don't always know how animals will react to a well-placed hit. On average, sure the larger caliber bullet will do a bit more tissue damage, but we're not talking .224" versus .338" bullets here. The terminal performance differences between sleek 7mm and .30 bullets are minor, IME.

 

[danmayland]

Anyone using Hornaday ELD Match for LR hunting?

I think we’re getting a little bit off-topic but for the purpose of conversation i can offer some of my experiences. I hunted exclusively for many years with the 300 ultra mag shooting bullets from 180 grain up to 210 grain. I have anchored (DRT) more animals with my 7 LRM than I ever did with my 300 rummy. I’ve guided for years and hunted with a 30x378 weatherby for a few years as well. There is no such thing as too big of a bullet for to death! However that being said, the reason I switched to the 7 LRM was to still have plenty of terminal performance at extended ranges and being able to witness or spot my own shots and not take a beating from recoil. How quickly an animal dies depends 100% upon shot placement and terminal shock. The reason why shoulder and neck shots are so successful at dropping an animal in its tracks it’s because of terminal shock. The bullet entering that area sends a shock wave through the spinal cord and into the brain and through the vital organs causing immediate death. It’s not necessarily because of bullet performance or anything else. That being said I still prefer to shoot animals behind the shoulder and into the vitals. It’s just a larger target area and you have a larger margin of error at extended ranges. You can still get terminal shock shooting an animal behind the shoulder but you have to be using a bullet that is explosive enough to completely destroy all of the internal, vital organs. This includes the heart liver and lungs. An animal can live for quite sometime with some or any of these vitals partially intact. That to me is the difference between the Hornaday ELDM bullet and the berger hybrid. The berger hybrid so far appears to be slightly more explosive than the ELDM. However I’ve only killed two animals with the ELDM and I’ll have to take more animals before I confirm this.


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