Anybody feel like helping a greenhorn tune a Triax?

[vectordawg]

Short story, had a guy at a shop in Nashville (3 hours from home) get me close last year. I came home and shot some paper and got fixed blades hitting with field points. I’ve been shooting a fair amount this summer and now it’s time to check the tune. My ATA was about 3/16 long and the draw weight too low. My buddy who used to own the local shop told me to put two turns in the string and each cable then work on the timing. Well, now the ATA is correct and so is the draw weight but I can’t get the timing right and my peep is off 180 degrees. I’ll get one cam right and the other really close and I’ll add or remove half a twist and it’ll be too much. What am I doing wrong? I have a press and a draw board.
Thanks!

It‘s a Triax with GAS strings.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Twisting the string decreases draw weight, so I'd first undo the string twists to get your peep rotated back to where it was.

Cam timing doesn't necessarily have to be dead even. Get them close with cable twists then see how it's tuning and use the rest elevation (or nocking point location) to make fine adjustments to the vertical tune.

 

[Miflatlander91]

You should be able to get the timing right in the cables. The rest of the stuff I leave as a +/- draw weight is close Ata close and brace height close I don't stress an awful lot. Mathews notoriously draw long as well. The main thing I worry about is getting the timing correct I haven't had a problem getting broadheads shooting with field points out farther than I am comfortable shooting game with this method

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[vectordawg]

Twisting the string decreases draw weight, so I'd first undo the string twists to get your peep rotated back to where it was.

Cam timing doesn't necessarily have to be dead even. Get them close with cable twists then see how it's tuning and use the rest elevation (or nocking point location) to make fine adjustments to the vertical tune.

You were spot on about the draw weight. I took the twists out and now it’s a touch over 71#. When you say “see how it’s tuning”, what method should I use?

 

[vectordawg]

You should be able to get the timing right in the cables. The rest of the stuff I leave as a +/- draw weight is close Ata close and brace height close I don't stress an awful lot. Mathews notoriously draw long as well. The main thing I worry about is getting the timing correct I haven't had a problem getting broadheads shooting with field points out farther than I am comfortable shooting game with this method

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I have it close but the perfectionist in me wants it dead on, lol

 

[Samdemarais]

You were spot on about the draw weight. I took the twists out and now it’s a touch over 71#. When you say “see how it’s tuning”, what method should I use?

Start by shooting through paper at 6 feet, then 20 feet (this is when an arrow will be at its worst) If you are getting good bullet holes or really close then you could just go to broadhead tuning.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

You were spot on about the draw weight. I took the twists out and now it’s a touch over 71#. When you say “see how it’s tuning”, what method should I use?

I typically start with paper tuning to get things close, then bareshaft tuning to refine, and finish with broadhead tuning as final confirmation. All 3 methods should lead to the same result. Broadhead tuning is mandatory for hunters IMO, so you could just jump straight to that method; the only downside is that broadheads are hard on targets.

Here's a handy chart from Gold Tip showing how to interpret the various tuning methods and what adjustments to make:

 

[vectordawg]

I typically start with paper tuning to get things close, then bareshaft tuning to refine, and finish with broadhead tuning as final confirmation. All 3 methods should lead to the same result. Broadhead tuning is mandatory for hunters IMO, so you could just jump straight to that method; the only downside is that broadheads are hard on targets.

Here's a handy chart from Gold Tip showing how to interpret the various tuning methods and what adjustments to make:
View attachment 314077
View attachment 314078

That Is what I did prior to last season. For me, when I got a bullet hole with a BS around 12 feet, the BS hit with field points out to 40. And so did the broadheads. I can’t remember everything I did but the one thing I do remember was that rotating my d-loop down one or two rotations got me a bullet hole. I never moved the rest. Thanks for the chart!

 

[Zac]

When you get your timing really close fire about 10 shots to settle it. Sometimes they come into time just fine off the board. Also if you have a Zebra you are probably gonna fight peep rotation until you put in a quality string.

 

[vectordawg]

When you get your timing really close fire about 10 shots to settle it. Sometimes they come into time just fine off the board. Also if you have a Zebra you are probably gonna fight peep rotation until you put in a quality string.

I know all about fighting peep rotation with a Zebra. Now I have GAS strings. Thanks for the timing tips!

 

[vectordawg]

Twisting the string decreases draw weight, so I'd first undo the string twists to get your peep rotated back to where it was.

Cam timing doesn't necessarily have to be dead even. Get them close with cable twists then see how it's tuning and use the rest elevation (or nocking point location) to make fine adjustments to the vertical tune.

When you say close, how close is close enough? I’m getting 4-5 inch nock high tears with fletching at 12 feet.

My next question is about center shot. Once it’s set, it’s set, right? As long as nothing comes loose or gets bumped wouldn’t center shot always be the same? Even if you changed strings the center of the riser doesn’t change. Mine is still where I had it last season and I had great arrow flight then. some is off besides my cam sync and I can’t figure it out.

This is my top cam. The bottom is right on. Every time I move one, the other gets thrown off. What am I missing?

This is beginning to stress me!

 

[Mighty Mouse]

When you say close, how close is close enough? I’m getting 4-5 inch nock high tears with fletching at 12 feet.

This is my top cam. The bottom is right on. Every time I move one, the other gets thrown off. What am I missing?

A nock high tear usually indicates that the top cam needs to be retarded and/or the bottom cam needs to be advanced. But your photo shows that the top cam is already behind the bottom cam, so there may be other issues at play. Two things I would recommend before continuing with cam timing adjustments:

1. Check for vane contact. If your rest isn't falling fast enough or is bouncing back after falling, vanes could be hitting the launcher and causing the tail of the arrow to kick up. Coat the edges of the vanes with a distinctly colored substance (lip stick, silver Sharpie, spray foot powder) and check for traces of the tattletale substance on the rest after shooting. Alternatively, you could shoot a bareshaft through paper and check the tear. If the vertical tear is significantly less with a bareshaft, that would suggest you're getting vane contact with your fleched shafts.
2. Put the bow in a vise with the string perfectly vertical (plumb) then nock an arrow and raise the rest. It's generally recommended to start with your rest and nocking point positioned such that the arrow runs level through the Berger hole (threaded hole in the riser used for mounting the rest). A nock high tear usually indicates that the rest needs to be raised and/or the nocking point needs to be lowered.

When adjusting cam timing, are you making adjustments in the smallest possible increment (i.e., adding/subtracting a half twist to just one cable)? I haven't worked on a Triax, but it's surprising to me that plus or minus a half twist would make a major difference in timing like you're describing.

My next question is about center shot. Once it’s set, it’s set, right? As long as nothing comes loose or gets bumped wouldn’t center shot always be the same? Even if you changed strings the center of the riser doesn’t change. Mine is still where I had it last season and I had great arrow flight then. some is off besides my cam sync and I can’t figure it out.

Centershot refers to the horizontal distance from the riser to the center of the arrow. Mathews recommends a centershot measurement of 13/16"±1/16". It's true that changing string/cables doesn't change the riser geometry, but new string/cables are likely slightly different in length than the old ones, which can necessitate adjustments to the rest, cams, etc. to get the bow tuned. If your paper tears are perfectly vertical, there's no reason to suspect that your centershot is off.

 

[vectordawg]

A nock high tear usually indicates that the top cam needs to be retarded and/or the bottom cam needs to be advanced. But your photo shows that the top cam is already behind the bottom cam, so there may be other issues at play. Two things I would recommend before continuing with cam timing adjustments:

1. Check for vane contact. If your rest isn't falling fast enough or is bouncing back after falling, vanes could be hitting the launcher and causing the tail of the arrow to kick up. Coat the edges of the vanes with a distinctly colored substance (lip stick, silver Sharpie, spray foot powder) and check for traces of the tattletale substance on the rest after shooting. Alternatively, you could shoot a bareshaft through paper and check the tear. If the vertical tear is significantly less with a bareshaft, that would suggest you're getting vane contact with your fleched shafts.
2. Put the bow in a vise with the string perfectly vertical (plumb) then nock an arrow and raise the rest. It's generally recommended to start with your rest and nocking point positioned such that the arrow runs level through the Berger hole (threaded hole in the riser used for mounting the rest). A nock high tear usually indicates that the rest needs to be raised and/or the nocking point needs to be lowered.

When adjusting cam timing, are you making adjustments in the smallest possible increment (i.e., adding/subtracting a half twist to just one cable)? I haven't worked on a Triax, but it's surprising to me that plus or minus a half twist would make a major difference in timing like you're describing.


Centershot refers to the horizontal distance from the riser to the center of the arrow. Mathews recommends a centershot measurement of 13/16"±1/16". It's true that changing string/cables doesn't change the riser geometry, but new string/cables are likely slightly different in length than the old ones, which can necessitate adjustments to the rest, cams, etc. to get the bow tuned. If your paper tears are perfectly vertical, there's no reason to suspect that your centershot is off.

Might Mouse, as soon as I read “vane contact” I realized I didn’t tie my drop away back in. Idiot! I’m at work now and won’t be able to report back until tomorrow afternoon. To answer your other question, yes, just a half twist at a time. Top cam was hitting first so I added a half twist to the bottom and it got farther away so I put a full twist back in and you see the results in that pic. Thanks for your help!

 

[vectordawg]

A nock high tear usually indicates that the top cam needs to be retarded and/or the bottom cam needs to be advanced. But your photo shows that the top cam is already behind the bottom cam, so there may be other issues at play. Two things I would recommend before continuing with cam timing adjustments:

1. Check for vane contact. If your rest isn't falling fast enough or is bouncing back after falling, vanes could be hitting the launcher and causing the tail of the arrow to kick up. Coat the edges of the vanes with a distinctly colored substance (lip stick, silver Sharpie, spray foot powder) and check for traces of the tattletale substance on the rest after shooting. Alternatively, you could shoot a bareshaft through paper and check the tear. If the vertical tear is significantly less with a bareshaft, that would suggest you're getting vane contact with your fleched shafts.
2. Put the bow in a vise with the string perfectly vertical (plumb) then nock an arrow and raise the rest. It's generally recommended to start with your rest and nocking point positioned such that the arrow runs level through the Berger hole (threaded hole in the riser used for mounting the rest). A nock high tear usually indicates that the rest needs to be raised and/or the nocking point needs to be lowered.

When adjusting cam timing, are you making adjustments in the smallest possible increment (i.e., adding/subtracting a half twist to just one cable)? I haven't worked on a Triax, but it's surprising to me that plus or minus a half twist would make a major difference in timing like you're describing.


Centershot refers to the horizontal distance from the riser to the center of the arrow. Mathews recommends a centershot measurement of 13/16"±1/16". It's true that changing string/cables doesn't change the riser geometry, but new string/cables are likely slightly different in length than the old ones, which can necessitate adjustments to the rest, cams, etc. to get the bow tuned. If your paper tears are perfectly vertical, there's no reason to suspect that your centershot is off.

MM, thanks for your help! I think I’m pretty close.
In that first pic those two arrows up top are fletched. The other two are BS. In the second pic I left the the two fletched arrows in the target and shot two different BS. That’s at 20 yards and in the dark, lol. I’ll see how they look at 40 before I start shooting broadheads. Thanks again!
Ryan

 

[bwhtr26]

fng, sorry for question, when someone says put twists in the string or take twists out of the string, are they referring taking one end of the string off the cam , maki g the twists, then putting string back on cam, or do you put twists in the string from both ends of the string in opposite directions. thanks

 

[Billy Goat]

fng, sorry for question, when someone says put twists in the string or take twists out of the string, are they referring taking one end of the string off the cam , maki g the twists, then putting string back on cam, or do you put twists in the string from both ends of the string in opposite directions. thanks

Cables you generally have one option. String you could split but I don't see a benefit to it. I will sometimes put an extra 1/2 twist in the bottom and take a half twist from the top to try to keep peep aligned. But otherwise it doesn't matter.

 

[Zac]

Quit freaking out about timing. You will never get it perfect. Conquest does make shims for super anal people if you want. If your using a LCA then you are getting a false reading right off the bat. Drawing the bow with your release will effect timing differently than that drawing device. So unless your nocking point is way off I wouldn’t worry about it. You have to reset center shot with new strings as well. That splitter will never end up in its previous spot.