Anybody Else Having Failure to Feed with Tikka mags?

[SamsonMan22]

The steel lipped mags still maybe have an issue but it is overcome by paying attention to loading. When I originally got mine I was only able to get 3 rounds in them and if I really tried to force a 4th round the follower would get stuck underneath the steel insert. They have a tendency to want to stack the rounds in a true single fashion with no stagger. The first 3 are no problem but when loading the 4th I have to make sure I’m pushing the third round off to the side so they will orient correctly. Could just be a flaw with the way I load mags but the normal plastic ones never showed this issue. I can’t 100% blame the magazines themselves but they are the only mag between the plastic tikka, MT, Aics, and waters that have given me this issue.

I have approximately 1500 rounds through 4 of the steel lipped mags now and not a single failure to pick up a round as of yet. They feed and function 100%, now that I have changed my loading technique for them they take the 4th round no problem and I have had no hang ups. If they ever get to the states at a reasonable cost I would buy them without hesitation. Given they were around $70 a piece to get them here I would rather spend the extra on the waters and gain the length and capacity.


Edit*

I was mistaken they were about $50 a piece to get them here. For some reason I thought more, given that factory plastic tikka mags cost nearly that here in the states there is some hope that these will be reasonable. Even if you had to order from the UK they would be a better buy than the regular all plastic mags. I still like the waters better but for a flush fit option that doesn’t need more length these are hard to beat so far. I’m not sure I would go with the 6 rounders based on the design, imo there will be a higher chance for the follower to hang up on the steel insert.

 

[SamsonMan22]

where are guys getting the metal lipped tikka mags? it's tough to stomach the waters prices.

I ordered mine from the UK I can’t remember the site I will look it up. I want to say it was called rifle mags or something like that.



Here is where I got them.

Tikka T3 & T3x 4 round steel lip magazine .204 .222 & .223

Online shop for rifle magazines and accessories based in Nottingham, UK.

riflemags.co.uk

 

[Bado20]

My factory 4 rounder does it sometimes where round 3 gets hung up. I have 2 Mamba mags that have been 100% though.

 

[Kenny Hart]

This may or may not prove to be a long term fix.

I have 3-4rnd factory 223 mags for my RSS Tikka that did the same thing more often than not.

I popped the follower out and stretched the spring to push harder on the rear.

Then I took a small flat file and barely slicked off the inside corner that the case catches on.

LESS IS MORE!
SNEAK UP ON IT, YOU CANT PUT IT BACK!

Holding it around 10 degrees steeper than the inside angle, I took a few light swipes to break the corner and remove any burr or edge there.

I had some dielectric silicone grease so using a Q-tip, I wiped on just enough to leave a slick film inside the lips and sides of follower.

I can still get a case to hang up once in a while in my hand, but so far it hasn't done it once in the rifle.

After trying this with the first mag, I put well over 100 rnds through it without a single fail to feed.

That's great info!

I emailed Tikka, if they don't offer a swap for the mag bodies then I may give the longer COAL mag body that the guy on 24hourcampfire is 3D printing, and try your solution on another to see if one is better than the other.

 

[Kenny Hart]

My factory 4 rounder does it sometimes where round 3 gets hung up. I have 2 Mamba mags that have been 100% though.

It seems the Mambas and Waters mags are g2g. I was really wanting a flush-fit solution for hunting, and the stock Tikka mag profile is perfect. I may have to pick up one of those, however. Would make a good backup magazine for hunting that I'm not primarily carrying in the rifle.

 

[Formidilosus]

So I've had the chance to do a bit more testing, and have figured out why the 223 magazines, specifically, have a feeding issue and are, IMO inherently unreliable.

This is not true- or at least only true if current mags. The issues with the 223 mags started about 3 years ago- before that the mags were extremely reliable. My group still has 10-12 original mags from 2014-2016 timeframe that feed perfectly. New mags tend to have issues.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

For those interested in the ascension mags

 

[Kenny Hart]

This is not true- or at least only true if current mags. The issues with the 223 mags started about 3 years ago- before that the mags were extremely reliable. My group still has 10-12 original mags from 2014-2016 timeframe that feed perfectly. New mags tend to have issues.

That's good to know...other than they've let a multi-year problem continue to linger. Other than this issue with the mags, I'm absolutely in love with this rifle. Far better than my M77, as well as both my Bergara Premier and Kimber Montana that I've sailed down the river after severe buyer's remorse.

Either way, from my engineering perspective, the feed lip design could definitely use the improvement of the metal feed lip variant. It could only result in the design being less picky when it comes to the springs, if what they say is true and the bad batch is causing issues.

 

[Kenny Hart]

For those interested in the ascension mags

Thanks for the link, those are the mag kits I was referring to. I'll probably snag one soon and see how it does, unless Beretta comes back with some promising news.

 

[Kenny Hart]

The steel lipped mags still maybe have an issue but it is overcome by paying attention to loading. When I originally got mine I was only able to get 3 rounds in them and if I really tried to force a 4th round the follower would get stuck underneath the steel insert. They have a tendency to want to stack the rounds in a true single fashion with no stagger. The first 3 are no problem but when loading the 4th I have to make sure I’m pushing the third round off to the side so they will orient correctly. Could just be a flaw with the way I load mags but the normal plastic ones never showed this issue. I can’t 100% blame the magazines themselves but they are the only mag between the plastic tikka, MT, Aics, and waters that have given me this issue.

Thanks, ya I did wonder about the follower interacting with the internal feed lips. If the fix is to stagger the last two, I'd gladly take it if that makes them 100%-ish reliable. It's how I must load my Ruger box mag and AR-15 mags anyway.

As of now, either the first or second round doesn't feed about 25% of the time.

 

[Castle Rock]

So I've had the chance to do a bit more testing, and have figured out why the 223 magazines, specifically, have a feeding issue and are, IMO inherently unreliable.

Because the mag bodies are a one-size-fits-all, the internal dimensions are far larger than the 223 brass, allowing them to move laterally by quite a large margin. And because the feed lips have a deep, sharp shoulder where there should be a generous radius to coax the rounds up into the feed lips, the smaller OD of the 223 rounds get wedged in there. (shown in pic below.)

View attachment 858156

I can readily replicate this on all three independently-sourced magazines that I own. Tikka got back to me and said they had a bad batch of springs and would replace them when they get more in stock, and to stretch the springs in the meantime to give them more tension and re-test.

I don't buy this, as it is not a function of spring power. In fact, this has never occurred, nor can I get it to occur, on rounds 3 and 4, as the magazine lacks the tension to force the round up into the corner and bear enough friction to keep it from moving laterally toward the center of the feed lips. It is always on round 1 or 2, where the spring pressure is higher.



This would make sense why the metal feed lip variants do not seem to have the same issue, despite using the same springs. The metal lips likely have slightly better, or slicker geometry that do not allow the rounds to get hung up. So thanks for the link to that thread!

Just though you all may find this info of interest.

The mag in the top picture isn’t a 223 magazine

 

[Kenny Hart]

The mag in the top picture isn’t a 223 magazine

That's the exact magazine that came with my brand new 223 Tikka from the factory. I've also bought a Tikka T3X 223 mag from MidwayUSA and another from somewhere I cannot remember, both brand new in the package. They are all identical.

So it's safe to say that is what Beretta/Tikka is shipping for 223 mags, at least at the present. It also has the proper mag block to limit the COAL to spec.

Do older magazines look different?

 

[SamsonMan22]

Thanks, ya I did wonder about the follower interacting with the internal feed lips. If the fix is to stagger the last two, I'd gladly take it if that makes them 100%-ish reliable. It's how I must load my Ruger box mag and AR-15 mags anyway.

As of now, either the first or second round doesn't feed about 25% of the time.

I have had zero failures to feed even when I was only treating them as a 3 round mag. Once I realized I had to purposely stagger them I was able to get the 4 in and still have had zero issues with feeding. The only reason I can’t call them 100% is I don’t have enough time on each mag to say they are good for a long time. So far though I expect them to go for quite a while.

 

[peterk123]

Don't know if it's been mentioned, mess with your torque settings. I had that issue because I had the torque too light. I'm using factory stock and mags. Upped the torque and now the rounds jump into the chamber. It's incredible what it difference it made.

 

[Kenny Hart]

Don't know if it's been mentioned, mess with your torque settings. I had that issue because I had the torque too light. I'm using factory stock and mags. Upped the torque and now the rounds jump into the chamber. It's incredible what it difference it made.

Are you referring to the torque on your action screws, or something you are doing to the mags?

My front and rear are torqued to 65 in-lbs, so on there pretty good. But the issue isn't that the magazine isn't sitting high enough. They press solidly up against the bottom of the action pretty tight with no room to go higher.

The issue is that the mag isn't lifting the round high enough for the bolt to catch the rim because they are getting stuck underneath the corner of the feed lips.

If you are saying there is an adjustment you can make to the magazine itself, I'm all ears.

 

[peterk123]

Are you referring to the torque on your action screws, or something you are doing to the mags?

My front and rear are torqued to 65 in-lbs, so on there pretty good. But the issue isn't that the magazine isn't sitting high enough. They press solidly up against the bottom of the action pretty tight with no room to go higher.

The issue is that the mag isn't lifting the round high enough for the bolt to catch the rim because they are getting stuck underneath the corner of the feed lips.

If you are saying there is an adjustment you can make to the magazine itself, I'm all ears.

Ya I was referring to the action. At 65, I can't imagine that is the issue. Hey, it was worth a shot (pun intended).