Any Electricians Here?

[ElkNut1]

I'm wanting to know if I can pull 110 volts from 220 wiring? I have one black & one white hooked in this panel that runs my HVAC system. This small panel box is run with two fuses the size of shotgun shells. Anyway to convert that hot source to 110 volts for my small shop, it's only 3' away so it would be great if I could steal power from that box. Thanks!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[WhiteOak]

I am not a certified electrician however I have 8 or so years experience with HVAC install and service.

I'm guessing that small panel box is your outdoor disconnect box for your condensing unit. That is meant to be a dedicated circuit for safety reasons as well as to ensure your condensing unit has no other amperage pull especially on startup leading to higher starting amps and possibly premature wear on the compressor.

I would not compromise your AC circuit but to answer your question it is possible to use either hot leg from a 220 circuit, however you would need to or really really should run a new neutral or splice from a nearby neutral wire to finish your 120 circuit.

 

[ElkNut1]

Makes sense, thank you!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[ramont]

I'm not an electrician either but I've worked with electronics and industrial electrical equipment for most of my life. I agree, a sub-panel or cutoff box is meant for whatever device it powers, I wouldn't pull power from it for anything else.

You get 220v from attaching the black and white wires on either end of a device that requires that voltage. You use the black wire for 110v for anything that only needs 110v. Both the black and white are actually the opposite ends of the same wire (that runs through the secondary of a transformer). Each wire (black and white) measures 110v from them to ground (copper wire) and 220v between the black and white wires. The black is actually considered the power and the white a return.

 

[WhiteOak]

On a 220 circuit black and white(or black and red or black and black) are both hot legs each wire is under a separate lug of the double pole breaker. Its best to actually understand electricity than to try and remember what the colors mean because they are only colors, you need to understand what that wires purpose is. The white wire on a 120 circuit is generally your neutral, on a 220 circuit it is very much a hot wire.


220 is usually fed direct from the breaker panel not from a transformer as stated using a double pole breaker ie two lugs. They are not 2 ends of they same wire.

 

[204guy]

Paul, if I'm understanding correctly what you're describing WhiteOak pretty much nailed it. If that's your pull disconnect for your ac condensing unit, it's a dedicated circuit for that unit. Almost universally they require 2 wire 220V, meaning no neutral and hence no 120V available. Unless you want to abandon your ac and repurpose the wire's you'll need to run a new circuit. Highly unlikely, but if it's ran in conduit you might me able to add a circuit that way.

 

[Sekora]

I would recommend running a new circuit from your panel. 220V originates from the same panel that 110V does. It just uses both phases of AC instead of only one on the 110V. However, the 110V does require a neutral, as basically a return, where the 220V just alternates between the two phases (hence why its called AC). I'm sure you can make it work somehow, but it will not be correct. Electricity is not something you want to "make work". Do it right so no one gets shocked or your house does not burn down. Good luck.

 

[Buckshotaz]

Would it work? yes. Would it be protected with a breaker? Only if you put one in. Would it meet code? no

 

[dirtclod Az.]

Sekora has it correct,I just ran a 220v curcuit .Run directly from the breaker panel
preferably on a new dedicated breaker.I ran new conduit and pulled new wire.
It's not hard,just time consuming.make sure you have all materials needed.
It's a pain to run back and forth to the hardware store in the middle of a project.
Good luck,in the end it's worth the trouble and gives you peace of mind.

 

[ElkNut1]

Thanks guys! With the box that's there it's main purpose is to power the HVAC Unit. There are no breakers in it. It's a small single box unit with a pull in & out dual fuse! It's a weird thing, nothing like a box with a breaker or multiple breakers. If it were like that I could've easily spiked into one of them. Thanks!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[WhiteOak]

Yep that's a disconnect on between the breaker and condenser, not a panel. That is not meant to be a junction box or distro panel only a box where you can disconnect the circuit before power goes to the condensing unit.

To touch on what was said about your new outlet or shop eqpt being protected....

The weakest point in any circuit should be the breaker. It is designed to trip before damage is done to the equipment or wires. You can never oversize wires(overkill yes, but oversize no) you CAN oversize breakers making it so your equip or circuit fries before the breaker trips. If you were to grab a hot leg from your AC circuit to make another circuit the power would still be going through the 40 amp AC breaker. If you run 14 gage wire(common for 15 amp 120 volt circuits witch is only rated for 15 amps and your shop equipment pulls more your breaker will not trip you can fry wires or anything on the load end of them. your breaker will not save your equipment nor your wires(witch should he rated a little hight than your loads rating.

 

[WhiteOak]

That disconnects main purpose is more for the safety of the HVAC service tech and also to protect the condenser(those shotgunshell fuses are sometimes rated lower than the breaker adding another layer of protection. But mostly that disconnect is for the tech so he doesnt have to walk inside and turn your breaker on and off 20 times when all of the work is at the condenser. Also for safety reasons most regions require that disconnect not be behind the unit but off to the side so that if someone is being electrocuted the disconnect can be pulled easily.

 

[ElkNut1]

Thanks for the clarifications! My box is to the side of the unit as mentioned, it's probably 10' away.

ElkNut/Paul

 

[Still Hunter]

If done correctly the 240 volt at the disconnect device is a circuit specifically sized for your condenser unit. It requires two hot phases out of the Service point/panel and a ground. The wire pulled to the disconnect was probably a 10-2 Romex which has two colored conductors, a black, a white and a bare ground. The condenser does not use a neutral. So the electrician doing the installation utilized the white insulated wire as another hot. It should have been taped red. In this wiring scenario, If you have a volt meter voltage to the ground wire to the black will be 120v, voltage to the white wire to ground should be 120 volts and voltage measure between the black and white should be 240 volts. You cannot get 110/115/120 volts with it wired as it is now. You could modify the circuit but doing so would require rewiring at the origination point of the circuit and would require you to remove one of the hot phases to your condenser and in your situation, I do not believe that is your intent. Please get a licensed electrician to come add you a new circuit.

 

[5MilesBack]

"220.....221......whatever it takes."

Probably not many on here that will get that.

 

[dirtclod Az.]

Got that joke first time I saw the movie.

 

[colersu22]

I would not compromise your AC circuit but to answer your question it is possible to use either hot leg from a 220 circuit, however you would need to or really really should run a new neutral or splice from a nearby neutral wire to finish your 120 circuit.

Please don’t tie on to a neutral, that’s a good way to light someone up when you share neutrals.

Like other have said that circuit should be sized for you HVAC unit. You need to run another circuit to get power to your shop.

There are multiple ways to do it with either pvc froM the panel or you can run direct burial romex.

If I was closer to you Paul I would come help you out for some elk tips but it’s about 8 hours away.

 

[ElkNut1]

Thanks again guys! I took all the advice & am pulling 110 from a different source, a safer one! Ha Ha!!

Colersu22, thanks bud for the offer, you can get advice on elk freely from me anytime, just give me a call!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[colersu22]

Thanks again guys! I took all the advice & am pulling 110 from a different source, a safer one! Ha Ha!!

Colersu22, thanks bud for the offer, you can get advice on elk freely from me anytime, just give me a call!

ElkNut/Paul

Will do Paul, I need to order some more reeds soon and I really like the mistress call you carry.