All things .308 Win

[rookieforever33]

Respectfully, these attributes are trivial and can be said for almost any common cartridge. Barrel life is maybe the only real standout attribute of 308 in the list above. But again, even 2500rds is absolutely adequate for 95% of shooters. And barrels are cheap compared to ammo!!


Not trying involved in the argument above when I quote this. But again, nearly any CALIBER has bullets available in a wide range of weights/constructions. For instance, in 243/6mm caliber I can load anything from ~60gr to ~115gr. In 6.5 I could go from ~95gr to ~156gr. 7mm I could go from ~120gr to ~195gr. Any cartridge in any of these calibers could be loaded to hunt varmint or bear/moose. And all would be just as effective or more than 30 cal, with less recoil.

As far as grabbing several guns, I could also grab several guns chambered in the same cartridge.... or I could grab the correct ammo for whatever gun I grab.

I just don't get the obsession with 308 as somehow MORE useful, flexible, effective, accurate, you name it than any other widely adopted cartridge. In reality it's too underpowered to shoot high BC 30cal bullets, which really BEGIN around 200gr+. And therefore you are stuck throwing suboptimal bullets with more recoil and less downrange performance.

For example: the 6mm 108gr Elite Hunter has nearly the same BC as the 30cal 180gr Elite Hunter, and I can get it 100fps faster in 4" less barrel out of my 6CM than I could with my 308. It has 1/3 the recoil and BETTER downrange ballistics. And it kills like a bear on cocaine. The 308 hype makes 0 sense.

I suppose next you are going to say Santa Claus isnt real.
Or maybe Cheerios taste better with piss than milk
Is the sky not blue?
Does 58008 really not say boobs when you turn the calculator upside down?

 

[Jbehredt]

Respectfully, these attributes are trivial and can be said for almost any common cartridge. Barrel life is maybe the only real standout attribute of 308 in the list above. But again, even 2500rds is absolutely adequate for 95% of shooters. And barrels are cheap compared to ammo!!


Not trying involved in the argument above when I quote this. But again, nearly any CALIBER has bullets available in a wide range of weights/constructions. For instance, in 243/6mm caliber I can load anything from ~60gr to ~115gr. In 6.5 I could go from ~95gr to ~156gr. 7mm I could go from ~120gr to ~195gr. Any cartridge in any of these calibers could be loaded to hunt varmint or bear/moose. And all would be just as effective or more than 30 cal, with less recoil.

As far as grabbing several guns, I could also grab several guns chambered in the same cartridge.... or I could grab the correct ammo for whatever gun I grab.

I just don't get the obsession with 308 as somehow MORE useful, flexible, effective, accurate, you name it than any other widely adopted cartridge. In reality it's too underpowered to shoot high BC 30cal bullets, which really BEGIN around 200gr+. And therefore you are stuck throwing suboptimal bullets with more recoil and less downrange performance.

For example: the 6mm 108gr Elite Hunter has nearly the same BC as the 30cal 180gr Elite Hunter, and I can get it 100fps faster in 4" less barrel out of my 6CM than I could with my 308. It has 1/3 the recoil and BETTER downrange ballistics. And it kills like a bear on cocaine. The 308 hype makes 0 sense.

Awww snap. 6cm hype that’s where it’s at! Kills deader fo sho!

 

[sierracharlie338]

Respectfully, these attributes are trivial and can be said for almost any common cartridge. Barrel life is maybe the only real standout attribute of 308 in the list above. But again, even 2500rds is absolutely adequate for 95% of shooters. And barrels are cheap compared to ammo!!


Not trying involved in the argument above when I quote this. But again, nearly any CALIBER has bullets available in a wide range of weights/constructions. For instance, in 243/6mm caliber I can load anything from ~60gr to ~115gr. In 6.5 I could go from ~95gr to ~156gr. 7mm I could go from ~120gr to ~195gr. Any cartridge in any of these calibers could be loaded to hunt varmint or bear/moose. And all would be just as effective or more than 30 cal, with less recoil.

As far as grabbing several guns, I could also grab several guns chambered in the same cartridge.... or I could grab the correct ammo for whatever gun I grab.

I just don't get the obsession with 308 as somehow MORE useful, flexible, effective, accurate, you name it than any other widely adopted cartridge. In reality it's too underpowered to shoot high BC 30cal bullets, which really BEGIN around 200gr+. And therefore you are stuck throwing suboptimal bullets with more recoil and less downrange performance.

For example: the 6mm 108gr Elite Hunter has nearly the same BC as the 30cal 180gr Elite Hunter, and I can get it 100fps faster in 4" less barrel out of my 6CM than I could with my 308. It has 1/3 the recoil and BETTER downrange ballistics. And it kills like a bear on cocaine. The 308 hype makes

 

[IdahoBeav]

So, we're comparing 108 gr bullets to 180 gr bullets?

 

[Hondo64d]

Respectfully, these attributes are trivial and can be said for almost any common cartridge. Barrel life is maybe the only real standout attribute of 308 in the list above. But again, even 2500rds is absolutely adequate for 95% of shooters. And barrels are cheap compared to ammo!!


Not trying involved in the argument above when I quote this. But again, nearly any CALIBER has bullets available in a wide range of weights/constructions. For instance, in 243/6mm caliber I can load anything from ~60gr to ~115gr. In 6.5 I could go from ~95gr to ~156gr. 7mm I could go from ~120gr to ~195gr. Any cartridge in any of these calibers could be loaded to hunt varmint or bear/moose. And all would be just as effective or more than 30 cal, with less recoil.

As far as grabbing several guns, I could also grab several guns chambered in the same cartridge.... or I could grab the correct ammo for whatever gun I grab.

I just don't get the obsession with 308 as somehow MORE useful, flexible, effective, accurate, you name it than any other widely adopted cartridge. In reality it's too underpowered to shoot high BC 30cal bullets, which really BEGIN around 200gr+. And therefore you are stuck throwing suboptimal bullets with more recoil and less downrange performance.

For example: the 6mm 108gr Elite Hunter has nearly the same BC as the 30cal 180gr Elite Hunter, and I can get it 100fps faster in 4" less barrel out of my 6CM than I could with my 308. It has 1/3 the recoil and BETTER downrange ballistics. And it kills like a bear on cocaine. The 308 hype makes 0 sense.

I think Formidilosus summed it up pretty well in this thread:

Post in thread 'The Shoot2hunt Podcast'

Oct 19, 2024

@Formidilosus - Ryan said on the latest podcast that you said something along the lines of "everyone should have a 308 hunting rifle".

Given you've posted many times here before about recoil differences with smaller calibers, what's the reason for this? Availability? Being familiar with a classic? Learning wind with a "slow" cartridge ... or something else?

Everyone should have a well setup 308.

As @NSI stated:

1). Absolutely predictable and consistent. Set it up correctly, zero it, true it, and it remains the same for longer than most people’s lives.

2)...

• Formidilosus

• 

But I’ll add that out of every rifle I’ve ever had, none have been more eager to please and easier to find good shooting loads for than my .308s. That includes .223, 22-250, 22 GT, .243 Win, .250 Savage AI, 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Rem, .270 Win, 7mm-08, 30-06, and 30-338 Win, and maybe a couple of others I’ve forgotten about. While I could find a good shooting load for most of them, none of them shot as wide of a variety of loads as well as my .308s have. My most recent example is this group of nine shots with NINE DIFFERENT CHARGES. I’ve never had another chambering do this for me. That sort of thing inspires confidence.



I have never had any weirdness happen with any critter I have shot at with a .308. No unexplained lost critters or anything like that. I cannot say the same about some of the other chamberings I mentioned. More confidence…. With the exception of barrel life and inherent accuracy, the .308 doesn’t excel at anything, but it does pretty much everything acceptably well, which is why I started this thread.

John

 

[Formidilosus]

I just don't get the obsession with 308 as somehow MORE useful, flexible, effective, accurate, you name it than any other widely adopted cartridge.

The rest of your points were mostly correct, however- whose obsessing?

In reality it's too underpowered to shoot high BC 30cal bullets, which really BEGIN around 200gr+. And therefore you are stuck throwing suboptimal bullets with more recoil and less downrange performance.

It shoots a wide variety of bullets at speeds for good terminal effects to 600 yards. Yes it has more recoil than other options.

For example: the 6mm 108gr Elite Hunter has nearly the same BC as the 30cal 180gr Elite Hunter, and I can get it 100fps faster in 4" less barrel out of my 6CM than I could with my 308. It has 1/3 the recoil and BETTER downrange ballistics. And it kills like a bear on cocaine. The 308 hype makes 0 sense.

Again- what hype? This is about the only thread where 308 is discussed.


I’ll tell you where the 308 dominates: predictability. Especially with the world’s best/most consistent factory ammo: Federal Gold Medal and Tru.

Cons:

- Recoil. It is at the top limit for excellent shooting in a sub 10lb suppressed rifle.

- External ballistics. It’s a 5 or 6 mph wind rifle. It hits 1,800fps at about 600 yards for most good combinations.


Pros:

- Predictability. It does exactly what it does without weirdness.


- Stability for a functionally unlimited barrel life. You can take GMM from the 90’s, the 2000’s, the 2010’s, and in the store now, shoot 5 rounds from each and have all rounds land in a 1.5” dot at 100 yards. You zero it in a bomb proof system at 100 rounds- it’s still zeroed at 1,000 rounds, 3,000 rounds, and 10,000 rounds…. It just doesn’t change. With Berger 185gr Juggernauts you have the most predictable in flight 30cal bullet made.

- External ballistics. Lots of combos match quick drop near perfectly/perfectly to 600+ yards. With certain factory ammo, it has a terminal al range of 700’ish yards. With certain handloads, it has a terminal range beyond most scopes ability to adjust.

- Terminal ballistics. Excellent with bunches of factory ammo. Too much with some.

- Barrel life is functionally unlimited. You can shoot it as fast as you can run the bolt and loads mags and it doesn’t care. No worry about torching a throat from heavy training sessions. No need to cool the barrel down unless you can’t see through the barrel mirage. If you can’t see through it- pour water on it.


6mm, 6.5’s, etc. are all great and outdo the 308 on paper and in real life for a time. However- 6cm, 243, etc can be finicky. Factory loads are inconsistent lot to lot. The stable range of the barrel on a 243 or 6cm is between 200-1,200’ish rounds (depending on firing schedule). Before 200 they speed up quite a bit usually, after 1,200-1,500 rounds often enough MV changes or other barrel wear changes can lead to shifts in zero and data. That doesn’t mean that the agree is toast at 1,200 rounds, just that once I start getting close to 1,000 rounds I am paying attention to firing rate, zero, and MV- none of which has to be done with a 308. I also don’t want to shoot 30+ rounds without cooking. I don’t want to do frequent 20 round plus without cooling; again, that does not matter to a 308.


So- 6mm’s and 6.5’s offer higher performance, but the cost is you ah e to pay attention to them in some ways. The 308 offers acceptable performance for almost all shooters and uses, and you do not have to think about it, ever. Just shoot it.

 

[Formidilosus]

I think Formidilosus summed it up pretty well in this thread:

Post in thread 'The Shoot2hunt Podcast'

Oct 19, 2024

@Formidilosus - Ryan said on the latest podcast that you said something along the lines of "everyone should have a 308 hunting rifle".

Given you've posted many times here before about recoil differences with smaller calibers, what's the reason for this? Availability? Being familiar with a classic? Learning wind with a "slow" cartridge ... or something else?

Everyone should have a well setup 308.

As @NSI stated:

1). Absolutely predictable and consistent. Set it up correctly, zero it, true it, and it remains the same for longer than most people’s lives.

2)...

• Formidilosus

• 

But I’ll add that out of every rifle I’ve ever had, none have been more eager to please and easier to find good shooting loads for than my .308s. That includes .223, 22-250, 22 GT, .243 Win, .250 Savage AI, 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Rem, .270 Win, 7mm-08, 30-06, and 30-338 Win, and maybe a couple of others I’ve forgotten about. While I could find a good shooting load for most of them, none of them shot as wide of a variety of loads as well as my .308s have. My most recent example is this group of nine shots with NINE DIFFERENT CHARGES. I’ve never had another chambering do this for me. That sort of thing inspires confidence.



I have never had any weirdness happen with any critter I have shot at with a .308. No unexplained lost critters or anything like that. I cannot say the same about some of the other chamberings I mentioned. More confidence…. With the exception of barrel life and inherent accuracy, the .308 doesn’t excel at anything, but it does pretty much everything acceptably well, which is why I started this thread.

John

Correct. Everyone that takes field shooting seriously should have a bomb proof 308 setup that they never mess with. Everyone should have a 223, 6mm, and 308.

 

[solarshooter]

I think Formidilosus summed it up pretty well in this thread:

Post in thread 'The Shoot2hunt Podcast'

Oct 19, 2024

@Formidilosus - Ryan said on the latest podcast that you said something along the lines of "everyone should have a 308 hunting rifle".

Given you've posted many times here before about recoil differences with smaller calibers, what's the reason for this? Availability? Being familiar with a classic? Learning wind with a "slow" cartridge ... or something else?

Everyone should have a well setup 308.

As @NSI stated:

1). Absolutely predictable and consistent. Set it up correctly, zero it, true it, and it remains the same for longer than most people’s lives.

2)...

• Formidilosus

• 

But I’ll add that out of every rifle I’ve ever had, none have been more eager to please and easier to find good shooting loads for than my .308s. That includes .223, 22-250, 22 GT, .243 Win, .250 Savage AI, 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Rem, .270 Win, 7mm-08, 30-06, and 30-338 Win, and maybe a couple of others I’ve forgotten about. While I could find a good shooting load for most of them, none of them shot as wide of a variety of loads as well as my .308s have. My most recent example is this group of nine shots with NINE DIFFERENT CHARGES. I’ve never had another chambering do this for me. That sort of thing inspires confidence.



I have never had any weirdness happen with any critter I have shot at with a .308. No unexplained lost critters or anything like that. I cannot say the same about some of the other chamberings I mentioned. More confidence…. With the exception of barrel life and inherent accuracy, the .308 doesn’t excel at anything, but it does pretty much everything acceptably well, which is why I started this thread.

John

Here's a similar test in a 6CM:

I think you would find this is true for most cartridges (because small changes in powder don't matter, but that's a different can of worms).

however- whose obsessing?

You know how I roll!

Again- what hype? This is about the only thread where 308 is discussed.

Fair, hype is the wrong word. It's more the special status bestowed upon it that I really don't get (but I am open minded).

Your points about barrel life are well taken. I personally don't shoot large volumes quickly (though I wish I could more), my focus is more on getting cold bore hits or following up, then resetting the position or changing distance/direction etc. Or I'm zeroing. In either case, usually strings of 5-10. And in terms of overall volume, I'm also not shooting enough (500-1krds/year of centerfire rifle) to constantly be changing barrels or chasing stability.

I do love a perfect quickdrop gun. The 108 mentioned earlier is pretty damn close too.

- Recoil. It is at the top limit for excellent shooting in a sub 10lb suppressed rifle.

This is really my biggest complaint. I had a Tikka 308 stainless lite, with a lightish scope on it, no brake or suppressor, right around 8lbs. The recoil was a problem. Now, I re-barreled the gun before I ever got a suppressor, so maybe it's not a fair shake. But I know that I want less recoil in all things, so it would be hard for me to go back.