Age Restrictions in Lieu of APRs?

[SageFlat]

Given that antler point restrictions have proven to be largely ineffective at managing age class, what about limiting take to bucks say 2.5 years or older? Maybe even older for more coveted tags? While it might not be an option for general/OTC type hunts with hundreds or thousands of tag holders, I feel that implementing such a rule on LE/Controlled hunts might be feasible? The potential problems surrounding this are obvious and numerous. However if it could be implemented successfully on any scale, age class would stand a good chance at improving, right? I've no doubt that some sub-legal bucks would lose their lives in the process, but the potential upside seems worth it to my caveman brain...

 

[ckleeves]

Every year people shoot moose thinking they are elk and you expect those same people to age deer before pulling the trigger?

 

[EdP]

Who's guess are you proposing to use or is the idea to wait a couple of weeks/months for a tooth analysis? It seems more practical to let the wildlife agencies determine the antler points typical of an age class for a particular area and achieve the same goal in a manner that can be determined by the hunter and verified by a CO in real time.

 

[SageFlat]

Every year people shoot moose thinking they are elk and you expect those same people to age deer before pulling the trigger?

I’m thinking that folks with the know-how or time invested to draw a decent tag might have a little better idea of what they’re looking at. Probably giving people too much credit however.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I like the idea, but how are most hunters going to age a buck of 2.5 years or more on the hoof as it filters through the edge of a meadow in the shade/trees or working its way through the hardwoods when a guy is on stand? I see this as a much more difficult task that will be fraught with bad decisions and justifications as to why the animal was 2.5 years of age in the hunters mind. What's the follow up, take it for a tooth analysis to see if you were right and pay up if wrong?

Point restrictions may or may not work, however, it is a tangible thing that is visible. The onus is completely on the hunter if they can't count or are sloppy.

 

[ckleeves]

I feel like season dates play a big roll in mule deer harvest especially when it comes to mature bucks. That’s probably the easiest way to manipulate harvest, dates don’t have to swing by more then a week or two and finding and killing mature deer can get much more difficult.

If Co didn’t have a season open past about Nov 1st I think you would see a huge swing in age class. Oct 1st thru about Oct 20th can be tough dates to find older bucks, obviously somewhat weather and area/unit dependent but there is a huge difference between hunting MD Oct 15th vs Nov 15th in western Co.

 

[sndmn11]

No way.

 

[Yoteassasin]

Well we just popped out of bed today to do some mental gymnastics didn't we .
What is your deliverable on this nonsense and is it a stated goal of the state f&g ? If not it seems like a lot of musing about pissing up a rope

 

[cuerro viejo]

Protect the rut and you will see higher age class.

aging deer works for about 5% of the hunting population, the other 95% are going to shoot the biggest they could find regardless of age class. Find is a loose term,

best you could do is spread and go ear tip to ear tip, going protect most 2-3 year olds

 

[CorbLand]

I would bet that 50% of hunters have less time invested on how to age a deer than it took you to make this thread. Add in your second comment and you have invest more time here than 75% of deer hunters have invested in learning how to determine a deers age.

The ones that have put the effort to learn how to age deer aren’t going to young deer anyways.

Don’t think just because someone has waited 20 years to hunt a good unit that they a good, knowledgeable hunter. Generally, it’s the exact opposite.

 

[maxx075]

Here I was getting all worked up thinking you were implying that older people should have less interest.

 

[SageFlat]

Protect the rut and you will see higher age class.

aging deer works for about 5% of the hunting population, the other 95% are going to shoot the biggest they could find regardless of age class. Find is a loose term,

best you could do is spread and go ear tip to ear tip, going protect most 2-3 year olds

I like the spread idea. Seems easier to judge and measure in the field for hunters and COs alike. Much better than age.

 

[SageFlat]

I would bet that 50% of hunters have less time invested on how to age a deer than it took you to make this thread. Add in your second comment and you have invest more time here than 75% of deer hunters have invested in learning how to determine a deers age.

The ones that have put the effort to learn how to age deer aren’t going to young deer anyways.

Don’t think just because someone has waited 20 years to hunt a good unit that they a good, knowledgeable hunter. Generally, it’s the exact opposite.

Bummer to hear but an accurate reality check nonetheless. I just hope the best for Muleys, poor suckers.

 

[SageFlat]

Well we just popped out of bed today to do some mental gymnastics didn't we .
What is your deliverable on this nonsense and is it a stated goal of the state f&g ? If not it seems like a lot of musing about pissing up a rope

That appears to be the case as I anticipated a slightly more positive response. Figured a 2.5 year min. would be easy enough to determine for the average Joe. Need to spend more time in the real world I suppose.

 

[SageFlat]

I like the idea, but how are most hunters going to age a buck of 2.5 years or more on the hoof as it filters through the edge of a meadow in the shade/trees or working its way through the hardwoods when a guy is on stand? I see this as a much more difficult task that will be fraught with bad decisions and justifications as to why the animal was 2.5 years of age in the hunters mind. What's the follow up, take it for a tooth analysis to see if you were right and pay up if wrong?

Point restrictions may or may not work, however, it is a tangible thing that is visible. The onus is completely on the hunter if they can't count or are sloppy.

If you don’t know don’t shoot. Seems simple enough. Someone else mentioned a spread minimum. Seems more measurable and effective. In hindsight I like that idea much more than an age restriction.

 

[willfrye027]

This one is right at his ears on width..should’ve let him grow another year??

 

[SageFlat]

View attachment 711603

This one is right at his ears on width..should’ve let him grow another year??

I mean if age class is the goal then it certainly wouldn’t hurt. However I never said ears wide is a good standard, I just like the width concept over age. Just for kicks, say 18” outside spread is the minimum. Show me a handful of true dandy bucks in that category and I’d reconsider.

 

[willfrye027]

I mean if age class is the goal then it certainly wouldn’t hurt. However I never said ears wide is a good standard, I just like the width concept over age. Just for kicks, say 18” outside spread is the minimum. Show me a handful of true dandy bucks in that category and I’d reconsider.

This buck scores 191” with 43” of mass, he probably was not getting much bigger.

How are you going to judge 18” width on a mule deer? Ear width can be anywhere from 20-28”. And yeah there’s some good bucks out there with an 18” inside spread.

If it was as easy as not shooting small deer, the entire west wouldn’t be struggling right now.

 

[SageFlat]

This buck scores 191” with 43” of mass, he probably was not getting much bigger.

How are you going to judge 18” width on a mule deer? Ear width can be anywhere from 20-28”. And yeah there’s some good bucks out there with an 18” inside spread.

If it was as easy as not shooting small deer, the entire west wouldn’t be struggling right now.

Probably so. He’s a heck of a buck.

Whether it’s age or width, I figured most people could determine 2.5 years or 18” outside at a glance. Clearly that’s not the case.

You’re correct on that. Here’s to hoping for mild winters and wet summers for all.

 

[willfrye027]

Probably so. He’s a heck of a buck.

Whether it’s age or width, I figured most people could determine 2.5 years or 18” outside at a glance. Clearly that’s not the case.

You’re correct on that. Here’s to hoping for mild winters and wet summers for all.

100% with you on the wet summers and mild winters. Personally I’d prefer everyone else to shoot forkies and me be the only trophy hunter on the mountain ha. But definitely a lot of us would like to see more and bigger bucks, that is for sure. Short of buying a ranch idk how to make that happen on purpose.

And yeah I’d like to think I can age a buck but honestly unless it’s a small bodied little think it’s probably fairly hard to tell just on the antlers. Plus there are some fat 2.5 yo bucks out there.