7mm Rem Mag elk rifle

[amassi]

I'd check out the Bergara line of rifles too if your willing to spend the $$ on a CA Mesa . The Premier Highlander or the B-14 in the Wilderness Hunter or Wilderness Ridge may interest you. Then there's the new Weatherby Mark V Hunter and the Weatherby Vanguard line of rifles that offer 7 mag. I haven't got to look at the new Mark V Hunter, but Weatherby always likes to add freebore to their chambers which would facilitate seating a bullet out a little longer than standard spec if the magazine allows. That may allow you to 'grow' into some long range bullet offerings.

Only in weatherby calibers, the standards or non weatherby magnums will all have a saami chamber and have a 3.4" mag box.

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[stoneramhunter]

I've hunted with the same rifle for 40 years a 7mm mag husquavarna with swarovski 3 x 9 scope. I mostly hunt sheep but its also my go to rifle for moose and elk.

 

[Formidilosus]

My limited understanding is that the rifles I currently own limit the shots available to me on elk due to energy carried, for example hitting a shoulder at 500 yards.

Ft-lbs energy isn’t a wounding mechanism and “shoulder” hits with 6.5 and 308 is not remotely a problem- and to way beyond 500 yards.

I'm a bow hunter first and feel that I have sound shot judgement. Perhaps I shouldn't be questioning the effective range of the rifles I currently own?

No, your current chamberings are not a problem to significantly farther than 400 yards, and farther than anything you’ve mentioned. You aren’t going to not kill an elk at 600 yards because you weren’t using a magnum, but you very well will because you didn’t hit it in the front half.


Let’s use a bow analogy-

A hunter who wants to increase his competent range from 30 yards to 40 yards: do you suggest he buys a new bow with an 80lbs draw weight because his 60lb bow isn’t powerful enough? What if he wants to go from 40 to 50 yards- does he need a 90lb bow? Or is it practice that makes the difference?

There is a large thread about using 223’s to kill everything from antelope to moose. It has a lot of data and information about killing and terminal ballistics and is worth reading.

 

[Vandy321]

Ft-lbs energy isn’t a wounding mechanism and “shoulder” hits with 6.5 and 308 is not remotely a problem- and to way beyond 500 yards.





No, your current chamberings are not a problem to significantly farther than 400 yards, and farther than anything you’ve mentioned. You aren’t going to not kill an elk at 600 yards because you weren’t using a magnum, but you very well will because you didn’t hit it in the front half.


Let’s use a bow analogy-

A hunter who wants to increase his competent range from 30 yards to 40 yards: do you suggest he buys a new bow with an 80lbs draw weight because his 60lb bow isn’t powerful enough? What if he wants to go from 40 to 50 yards- does he need a 90lb bow? Or is it practice that makes the difference?

There is a large thread about using 223’s to kill everything from antelope to moose. It has a lot of data and information about killing and terminal ballistics and is worth reading.

6mm it is then? Serious question...why not, based on that logic? Not throwing spears, actually curious what the answer is

 

[Formidilosus]

6mm it is then? Serious question...why not, based on that logic? Not throwing spears, actually curious what the answer is

Ok.


644


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100’ish




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558






223’s can be awesome as well…

 

[Vandy321]

Ok.


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100’ish
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223’s can be awesome as well…

That's badass...and I was honestly asking why not a 6mm. I do belive energy is king, as elk are tough animals, but within reasonable ranges, I'd love to shoot a short accurate 6mm over a 7RM, but elk are tough animals and I'd have a hard time convincing myself that was the "best" choice when given options.

 

[wyo2track]

That's badass...and I was honestly asking why not a 6mm. I do belive energy is king, as elk are tough animals, but within reasonable ranges, I'd love to shoot a short accurate 6mm over a 7RM, but elk are tough animals and I'd have a hard time convincing myself that was the "best" choice when given options.

What I like best in all those pics is the bullet placement is 4 to 6" behind the shoulder taking the least path of resistance to the lungs. Shoulder meat intact. I dont know what bullet was used on those elk, but all you might lose is the rib meat. Some serious trauma shown there.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

And then put one of those little rounds in the shoulder at 600 yards and see what happens.
223s are awesome as well for elk?Dumbassery abounds on this forum

 

[amassi]

Ok.


644
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100’ish
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490
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223’s can be awesome as well…

What 6mm was this? I just traded for a 6x47, any issue with the 108 eld m ?

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[Balderdash]

But you can shoot every factory available option which is plenty for his intended use of increasing his range past 400 yards

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I think way too much fuss is made about the fact that the Tikkas aren't twisted for heavies and that they limit COAL on long actions. While I agree that those attributes can be less than ideal for some applications, the reality is that the vast majority of users are exceedingly well served by factory Tikkas.

As far as COAL, it's a bit of a myth that you have to kiss lands in order to realize the best accuracy potential. Among others, I've worked with Weatherbys that have a lot of freebore and with Tikkas that are limited in COAL and have been able to achieve fine accuracy without coming close to the lands.

As far as twist, as has been brought up, Tikkas seem to thrive on factory fodder, and they usually aren't too finicky about a specific load. I've worked with factory 300 win mag and 7mm rem mag Tikkas that grouped fairly high BC bullets
(such as the 200 eld-x and 168 LRX, respectively) very well despite their rpm handicap.

IME, what the Tikka brings to the table in terms of out of the box accuracy, functionality and ruggedness far overshadows it's supposed "shortcomings".

Buy the Tikka, spend the extra cash on ammo, shoot the barrel out and then get one chambered and twisted exactly how you want it. In the meantime, you'll learn that the COAL and RPM weren't the factors holding you back from reaching your game taking goals and developing your potential as a shooter.

 

[Formidilosus]

That's badass...and I was honestly asking why not a 6mm. I do belive energy is king, as elk are tough animals, but within reasonable ranges, I'd love to shoot a short accurate 6mm over a 7RM, but elk are tough animals and I'd have a hard time convincing myself that was the "best" choice when given options.

I haven’t seen that elk are “tough”. Shoot them in the chest, they die.

The issue is that “energy” isn’t a wounding mechanism. It tells you absolutely nothing about how deep, how wide, or the overall shape of the wound a bullet will create. Destroyed tissue kills, to measure that destroyed tissue you measure the wound channel.

If a 6mm and a 7RM create the exact same size hole in an animal, how is the 7RM “better”? And to be perfectly clear, it is entirely possible for a 6mm to match most 7mm projectiles.

 

[Formidilosus]

And then put one of those little rounds in the shoulder at 600 yards and see what happens.

The top pic did go through the scapula (shoulder) at 644 yards and exited, as well as the one at 100’ish- notice the massive trauma under the scapula. Keep guessing though.

223s are awesome as well for elk?Dumbassery abounds on this forum

“Dumbassery”? Because some use facts and reality instead of emotion and myth? Of course you did claim that a 6.5mm didn’t penetrate deep enough on an elk to go through a prairie dog….

100% of elk shot this year with 6mm’s are in those pictures- they died easily. Of course elk have died easily for me with 22’s, 24’s, 26’s, 28’s, 30’s, and 33’s too. How many elk have you killed with 223’s or 6mm’s? How about 6.5’s? What about your 30cal magnums? Bullets and placement too please. Bonus if you have pictures of the wound channels.

 

[Formidilosus]

What 6mm was this? I just traded for a 6x47, any issue with the 108 eld m ?

6XC, 20” barrel. The 108gr ELD-M’s are very good in tissue.

 

[ARK_Ginger]

6XC, 20” barrel. The 108gr ELD-M’s are very good in tissue.

How slow would you trust the 108s? I'm going to be launching them out of a 6 ARC

 

[Formidilosus]

How slow would you trust the 108s? I'm going to be launching them out of a 6 ARC

1,800 easy. The 6ARC doesn’t stress that bullet at all.

 

[ReddingArcher]

Dang I really stirred the pot. I appreciate all of the wisdom shared. Allow me to be more clear to make sure I get the best information

I have no plan to begin reloading. If I do I'll have an excuse to get a new rifle

My goal is to be comfortable shooting at an animal up to 600 yards by this coming season under calm conditions. My ego would like to be able to extend that (800 yards seems way out there) but that seems like a multi year goal with a lot to learn. I will certainly be extending that distance at the range but at this early point in my hunting experience I have been able to generally get at least that close. I'll be hunting in the Oregon Cascades, central Idaho and I have a hunt planned for Montana this coming year where I was told that if I'm comfortable shooting out to 600 yards it would make me much more likely to harvest an animal.

I also considered a 300wm but the added recoil made me lean towards the 7mm.

For what its worth I'm looking at the Christensen Mesa again as they're only a difference of a $100 for the model Tikka I like and I'd prefer something built in the US. Also seems like much of the Christensen quality issues surround their carbon barrels and I've had good luck with the one I own. Hopefully this doesn't derail the conversation into a CA vs Tikka argument

Thanks again for the willingness to share your knowledge.

FWIW a buddy of mine has the Mesa in 7RM and it doesnt shoot near as good as I'd expect. 2" is the best anyone could get it to shoot, with handloads or factory ammo. I just wasnt that impressed with the Mesa.

 

[Vandy321]

I haven’t seen that elk are “tough”. Shoot them in the chest, they die.

The issue is that “energy” isn’t a wounding mechanism. It tells you absolutely nothing about how deep, how wide, or the overall shape of the wound a bullet will create. Destroyed tissue kills, to measure that destroyed tissue you measure the wound channel.

If a 6mm and a 7RM create the exact same size hole in an animal, how is the 7RM “better”? And to be perfectly clear, it is entirely possible for a 6mm to match most 7mm projectiles.

Thats where you're wrong dude...energy is absolutely a wounding/killing mechanism.

Hydrostatic shock.

I stand by statement that energy is king. But sure anything in the boilermaker will do the trick, as evidenced by a 250fps arrow.

 

[Jimbee]

Wha

1,800 easy. The 6ARC doesn’t stress that bullet at all.

What does "stress a bullet" mean?
Thanks

 

[Formidilosus]

Thats where you're wrong dude...energy is absolutely a wounding/killing mechanism.

Hydrostatic shock.

I stand by statement that energy is king. But sure anything in the boilermaker will do the trick, as evidenced by a 250fps arrow.

Ok. How deep will a bullet penetrate with 3,000 ft-lbs versus 2,000? How wide will the wound be for both?


Please cite a single legitimate terminal
ballistics study that states that ft-lbs of energy is a wounding mechanism. You’ll want to Google “fbi terminal ballistics”, Dr Martin Fackler terminal ballistics, Dr Gary K. Robert’s, “International Wound Ballistics Symposium”, Navel Crane Wound ballistics”, etc.


Hydrostatic shock is a myth that keeps being repeated, and despite numerous legitimate medical studies has not been shown to exist at all, and has no effect on killing.

 

[Formidilosus]

Wha

What does "stress a bullet" mean?
Thanks

“Stress” in this case means high enough impact velocity to cause so much fragmentation that adequate penetration is not achieved. In other words, the 108gr ELD-M is in the ideal window for good terminal performance from muzzle to near 600 yards in most conditions.