7mm Rem and H1000 Question

[brn2hnt]

So I'm finally getting around to more testing in my Tikka T3X. Basic info: 24" Barrel, 9.5" twist, max COAL 3.355. I am thinking I will stay in the 160 grain bullet range, but based on Nosler load data and what charges they found to be accurate, I'm having a hard time convincing myself not to go with a 175 gr NP. Primary purpose will be do all mountain rifle, from antelope to elk, though calendar kind of excludes elk this year. When choosing bullets I care very much about loss due to bloodshot, and have extreme confidence in NP, but am not married to them. Current comfort range is 400, but that being said I think the longest I've needed has been 280ish. So I'm nervous about long range bullet performance at normal ranges and 7 mag speeds.

My struggle is that Nosler does not list H1000 in their 160 data, only 168. Can I work up to 168 levels with a 160 starting at minimum? Also, Hodgon website lists max for H1000 for a 160 NP as 66 gr, but a 162 SPBT at 70 gr. I know bearing surface is different etc but 4 grains? Or is it best to just jump to the 175's as the Nosler data indicates with H1000 I lose virtually no speed for the extra bullet weight? Anyone with experience with H1000 and these weights? Thanks in advance

Mike

 

[elkduds]

After 20 years w a 7 RM I can see no benefit and a ballistic downside to choosing 175 gr for game up to elk-size. I'd find a 160 bonded or partition load my rifle embraced even if I had to change powder. After years of Sierra Game King and Hornady BTSPs in 175, it is a giant leap forward to load 160s that retain weight better, open bigger and travel faster.

 

[brn2hnt]

After 20 years w a 7 RM I can see no benefit and a ballistic downside to choosing 175 gr for game up to elk-size. I'd find a 160 bonded or partition load my rifle embraced even if I had to change powder. After years of Sierra Game King and Hornady BTSPs in 175, it is a giant leap forward to load 160s that retain weight better, open bigger and travel faster.

How is there a ballistic downside to shooting a heavier bullet at nearly identical speed?


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[elkduds]

More drop @ longer ranges. Gravity...

 

[brn2hnt]

More drop @ longer ranges. Gravity...

Without going into your ignorance of physics, here is what I'm looking at:

Nosler lists most accurate loads within each powder. Almost all loads for 160 gr are listed below 3000 fps but 2 were slightly over so I used 3000 fps. Most accurate of all the 175 gr loads was just under 3000, so I used 2950. With the numbers I ran using nosler load data and using the same bullet (partition) the difference in drop at 500 was 1/2". To a man of my shooting ability that is nothing.



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[stevevan]

You're right. The heavier bullet has more momentum and is less affected by wind drift. That's why most long range shooters go for heavy to caliber rifles. For what it's worth. Don't try in your rifle this load, however I'm OK in my rifle using the 160 NP and 74.0 H1000 and 72.0 H1000 with 175 NP. Be careful and work up. I find manuals lean on the side of safety due to our sue happy culture and the manufacturers keep even the max. loads under what can be loaded. However, every rifle is different and what might be safe in one can produce dangerous pressure in another. Hence, start low and work up slow. I have a custom 24" barrel on my 7 Remmy and I chrono the 160 load at just under 3100 fps and amazingly I get a fraction over 3000 fps with the 175 NP. Both loads are very accurate too. The 160's have been my go to for my elk hunting and the 175's have taken 3 subspecies of moose. All with excellent performance. Going for the 4th subspecies of moose this fall and the 175's will be in my rifle.

 

[shawnb]

If your only going to 400 yards then any good hunting bullet should be fine. I shot the 7mag for years with 168/180 bergers and i cant say that either was better than the other. And thats moose in canada from 20yd to 350yds. If you at all plan on longer range hunting i would pick a high bc thats stable in the 9.5twist barrel. Dialing for elevation is easy but wind is more tricky, and thats where the bc come in.

But again if you do plan on shooting lr for fun then pick 1 bullets that will do what you want to simply only having to load one bullet instead of having 2 loads.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

More drop @ longer ranges. Gravity...

Ummm, no. All objects fall at the same rate, so this is not true at all. Now, the aerodynamic efficiency of the bullet will affect the bullet flight, but not the weight.

You're right. The heavier bullet has more momentum and is less affected by wind drift. That's why most long range shooters go for heavy to caliber rifles.

Ummm, thanks for playing. But you are wrong. Most long range shooters use smaller faster bullets. the 6mm Dasher is a popular round, with a 115 grain bullet humming along at almost 3200 feet per second. Or the 6mm Competition Match, or maybe the 6mm Creedmor. I can keep going.

But if you are talking long range hunting, that is different. But really, how far are we talking about? Any 7mm bullet would work well, and you are looking for the most aerodynamically efficient (read High BC) for those purposes.

 

[danmayland]

Ummm, no. All objects fall at the same rate, so this is not true at all. Now, the aerodynamic efficiency of the bullet will affect the bullet flight, but not the weight.



Ummm, thanks for playing. But you are wrong. Most long range shooters use smaller faster bullets. the 6mm Dasher is a popular round, with a 115 grain bullet humming along at almost 3200 feet per second. Or the 6mm Competition Match, or maybe the 6mm Creedmor. I can keep going.

But if you are talking long range hunting, that is different. But really, how far are we talking about? Any 7mm bullet would work well, and you are looking for the most aerodynamically efficient (read High BC) for those purposes.

Not entirely true. It depends on your definition of "long range shooters". Most shooters prefer the calibers you listed above because of the low to moderate recoil and ability to spot shots and follow up quickly if they miss. True long range and extreme range shooters use much larger calibers and heavier bullets to shot twice the distance of the long range shooters and calibers you are referencing above. This is of course because of the ballistics and energy offered using a much more streamlined, heavy bullet. Calibers like the 338 Edge, 338 PRO 375 Cheytac, 408 Cheytac all using 300 grain bullets over 3000 fps.

So it really depends on what you consider long range and what you application will be. A heavier, high BC bullet traveling at a high velocity will always have more energy, less drop and be less affected by wind than a smaller, lighter bullet. It's simple mathematics.

For hunting applications, a heavier bullet is obviously preferred because it correlates directly to kinetic energy and knock down power. There is a point of no return when heavy bullets are less efficient than lighter bullets but comes only when the velocity to energy ratio falls below the equal velocity to energy ratio of the lighter bullet. If the ratio is equal to or greater than that of the lighter bullet the heavier bullet will always overcome the lighter bullet.

Now, getting back on topic for the OP. AS mentioned in a previous post. Start at 60 grains and work up. Load 1 round in .5grn increments from 60 until 5% over max listed velocity. I show that max velocity for h1000 and 162 grn bullets is 68.5. So for 160-165grn bullets I would load up 60 grns to 71 grains ever .5 grns and run a pressure test starting from low to high and checking for pressure. Obviously stop when you start seeing flat primers and any sign of a stiff bolt lift. If your not getting pressure then keep loading higher. I show max load for 175's to be 60.5 grains of h1000. I would start at 55 grains and run up to 65 grains.

I'm running 70.5 grains h1000 in my 7LRM with 180 grn bullets @ 3040fps and that's a hot load for my gun. A LRM is about 4-5% over case capacity to the standard 7rem mag. So that would put you around 67 grns max with a 175-180 grn bullet. Just for gee wiz. The 175 and 180 grain bullets cross over exactly in my gun with equal charge weights.


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[elkduds]

Hornady manual 4th Ed.
Hornady BTSP 7mm bullets @ MV 3K fps, 200 yd zero.
162 gr: 500 yd velocity 2144, energy 1653, drop 37.3". 1000 yd velocity 1459, energy 765, drop 272.6"
175 gr: 500 yd velocity 2057, energy 1644, drop 38.9". 1000 yd velocity 1337, energy 694, drop 295.9"

As I wrote, heavier bullets drop more @ longer range. 2 other ballistic measures also favor the lighter bullet at both ranges listed: velocity and energy are higher for the lighter bullet @ both these ranges. This because a slower bullet is accelerated by gravity over a longer time in traveling the same linear distance.

In reality the advantage to the 160 will be even greater than this data illustrates. The 160 will have faster muzzle velocity than the 175, whether by a little or a lot. In your example the difference was 50 fps in favor of the 160.

"Ignorance of physics?" "man of my shooting ability?" Tool.

 

[Ryan Avery]

If the people in this thread can't answer a question without being a dick, quit posting!

I get it you're cool, go be cool somewhere else.

 

[thopkins22]

Who cares about the drop? At least past 500yds? Past that I need to KNOW the distance regardless of what load or caliber is in the gun.

So once I have a distance I have cards, software, cheat sheets, and other things telling me exactly what the hold is.

What I'm concerned about, and what most people that shoot long distance(at least the ones that make hits) are concerned about, and the reason heavy for caliber bullets are popular for long range, is wind.

160's ARE heavy for caliber in a 7mm and an excellent choice.

Also, brn2hnt was not talking up his shooting ability in the sentence you insulted him over. He was saying "what's an inch matter to me, my group is going to be five or six inches at that distance anyway." Essentially.

 

[16Bore]

None of it matters if your boots suck.....

 

[Freetime]

So I'm finally getting around to more testing in my Tikka T3X. Basic info: 24" Barrel, 9.5" twist, max COAL 3.355. I am thinking I will stay in the 160 grain bullet range, but based on Nosler load data and what charges they found to be accurate, I'm having a hard time convincing myself not to go with a 175 gr NP. Primary purpose will be do all mountain rifle, from antelope to elk, though calendar kind of excludes elk this year. When choosing bullets I care very much about loss due to bloodshot, and have extreme confidence in NP, but am not married to them. Current comfort range is 400, but that being said I think the longest I've needed has been 280ish. So I'm nervous about long range bullet performance at normal ranges and 7 mag speeds.

My struggle is that Nosler does not list H1000 in their 160 data, only 168. Can I work up to 168 levels with a 160 starting at minimum? Also, Hodgon website lists max for H1000 for a 160 NP as 66 gr, but a 162 SPBT at 70 gr. I know bearing surface is different etc but 4 grains? Or is it best to just jump to the 175's as the Nosler data indicates with H1000 I lose virtually no speed for the extra bullet weight? Anyone with experience with H1000 and these weights? Thanks in advance

Mike

Let your gun tell you what it likes to shoot. Been shooting 7mm for 25 years and most will shoot basically the same loads. However they all are a little bit different. The two I have now one that carries a bench mark barrel will shoot any thing but loves 175 with h4831sc. 63 grains which is several grains above the lawyer book.
The other which runs finicky carries a Bartlein barrel. It really like h1000 with 160 grain bullets. I load between 70-72 grain depending on pressure sighs. This gun has drove me crazy to find what it like but boy when I went with this combo it really like it. Anyway look at burn rate of powder. Look at ur twist rate and start low and work up.

 

[Michael54]

So kickstarting an old thread via forum search. I went to a handload 165gr game king that travels at roughly 2850 fps for whitetail here in pa. I used 150 gr core lokts before and they worked completely fine 175 yards and out. 175 and in not so much, i spent a lot of time tracking deer. Is 165 gr too light for elk? I think I'm thinking too much into it and trying to reinvent the wheel but i would like to have the optimal load for what i'm hunting.

 

[mt100gr.]

So kickstarting an old thread via forum search. I went to a handload 165gr game king that travels at roughly 2850 fps for whitetail here in pa. I used 150 gr core lokts before and they worked completely fine 175 yards and out. 175 and in not so much, i spent a lot of time tracking deer. Is 165 gr too light for elk? I think I'm thinking too much into it and trying to reinvent the wheel but i would like to have the optimal load for what i'm hunting.

165gr in a .284 diameter bullet is plenty for elk. ...or anything else. If you can poke the hole in the correct spot, you could use even less. The 7mmRM is a killer with 160 class bullets.

 

[Michael54]

165gr in a .284 diameter bullet is plenty for elk. ...or anything else. If you can poke the hole in the correct spot, you could use even less. The 7mmRM is a killer with 160 class bullets.

Thanks! I went up to 165 from 150 because 175 yards and in i was zipping pin holes in deer. They either dropped in their tracks or it was a very long nerve filled track with a very minimal blood trail. One thing it did do was significantly improve my tracking skills though lol

 

[CorbLand]

There are piles of elk that can testify to the lethality of 165 grain projectiles out of many calibers.


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[Michael54]

There are piles of elk that can testify to the lethality of 165 grain projectiles out of many calibers.


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What i figured to be honest. However I do try to find the best options out there to improve what on what i already have. Our group is a bigger is better group lol everything from 300 wby mag to a .340 and i catch flak for not shooting at least 180's . When i bought my 7mm it was a "one rifle to hunt them all" purchase....now shotguns on the other hand i may be an addict lol

 

[tnbillyearl]

Should anyone find this thread via a search engine like I have, I did what danmayland suggested to the OP (I had the same question as the OP with the exact same specs.) It worked perfectly for 160g Accubonds, Paritions, and Speer BTSP.

I also found these for H1000 reference:

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/7mm_Remington_Magnum_160.pdf

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/7mm_Remington_Magnum_175.pdf

B