7mm Backcountry pfft

[UnckleBob]

30-06 in a SA cartridge already exists, it's called the .30 Thompson Center. Nobody cared, it's most notable now for being the parent case of 6.5cdm.

The 30TC cannot achieve 30-06 velocities out of a 16" barrel.

The magic of the 7BC is not velocity. It about replacing a 7RM velocities from a 24" barrel with 7RM velocities from a 16-18" barrel.

 

[bnewt3]

30-06 in a SA cartridge already exists, it's called the .30 Thompson Center. Nobody cared, it's most notable now for being the parent case of 6.5cdm.

To say nobody cared ill bet is not quite accurate.

Nobody cared enough to be a guinea pig, I believe that.

Being pretty much only available in T/C rifles is a massive hindrance(not necessarily because T/C, but any cartridge only available from one manufacturer almost never does well).

308 is already commonly owned, known, and trusted.

 

[bnewt3]

The 30TC cannot achieve 30-06 velocities out of a 16" barrel.

The magic of the 7BC is not velocity. It about replacing a 7RM velocities from a 24" barrel with 7RM velocities from a 16-18" barrel.

thres an echo in here.

Ive been beating my head against this wall for months.

 

[Kimber7man]

Yes. I too cannot comprehend the invention of a new straight wall cartridge when we already have the 45-70. But, then again I don't even shoot straight wall cartridges so maybe, perhaps, I don't understand the nuance because I don't use it.

Application based. There are still states that require straight wall cartridges to hunt deer, so there you have it. My state used to, thankfully we’re allowed centerfire now (on private land).

 

[AlaskaRed]

thres an echo in here.

Ive been beating my head against this wall for months.

I have one in a tikka t3x. 17.5" barrel. My 7BC shoots the 170 TA at 2940 fps. Not exactly 7RM handload speeds, I had my 24" 7RM shooting the 175 NP at 3200. But, the math on the 7BC will achieve good expansion at the distances I want to hunt at. I'd like to try some handload testing with it soon.

 

[AlaskaRed]

Application based. There are still states that require straight wall cartridges to hunt deer, so there you have it. My state used to, thankfully we’re allowed centerfire now (on private land).

Absolutely. That was the point I was getting at. I have a friend who lives in Illinois I hunt deer with time to time. Theres a whole world of straight wall shooters that I care not to enter, nor throw my unexperienced opinions at them either.

 

[omicron1792]

I think they worry about rolling this tech out to existing cartridges. Maybe they are afraid people will get 5.56 peak alloy ammo then use it in a 299 Walmart AR?

I think the technology is awesome. I’m afraid they are going to try and use in all new cartridges (6mm BC, 5.56 BC) and not release peak alloy into existing cartridges.

 

[AlaskaRed]

I think they worry about rolling this tech out to existing cartridges. Maybe they are afraid people will get 5.56 peak alloy ammo then use it in a 299 Walmart AR?

I think the technology is awesome. I’m afraid they are going to try and use in all new cartridges (6mm BC, 5.56 BC) and not release peak alloy into existing cartridges.

Why entertain the emotional fear mongers?

Even then it's the steel case that handles a lot of the extra pressure. Ultimate Reloader just did some test with high pressure 6mm arc and was not able to blow it up with high pressure ammo loaded with rifle powder. I believe he had stuff it full of shotgun powder to get it to explode. There plenty of people out there running their brass up to 80k pressures and yes it's not safe and destroys the brass. But, not a lot of death and explosions being talked about is there?

I do think the most responsible approach from Federal is to roll out new cartridges in a BC line.

 

[omicron1792]

Why entertain the emotional fear mongers?

Even then it's the steel case that handles a lot of the extra pressure. Ultimate Reloader just did some test with high pressure 6mm arc and was not able to blow it up with high pressure ammo loaded with rifle powder. I believe he had stuff it full of shotgun powder to get it to explode. There plenty of people out there running their brass up to 80k pressures and yes it's not safe and destroys the brass. But, not a lot of death and explosions being talked about is there?

I do think the most responsible approach from Federal is to roll out new cartridges in a BC line.

Oh I don’t believe it. I use Nas3 cases in my 5.56 bolt and AR. I’ll use it in all my guns when they roll it out there too.

Even the people loading and selling Nas3 are hedging though. They use the thin walls to load a few more grains or powder increasing speed 1-200fps. But they aren’t loading to the high pressures the cases are capable of… my guess is for the same fears federal has.

I’m saying federal probably has some worry about this. Why they haven’t rolled out to all cartridges, and why their first offering was a new specific offering.

 

[AlaskaRed]

Oh I don’t believe it. I use Nas3 cases in my 5.56 bolt and AR. I’ll use it in all my guns when they roll it out there too.

Even the people loading and selling Nas3 are hedging though. They use the thin walls to load a few more grains or powder increasing speed 1-200fps. But they aren’t loading to the high pressures the cases are capable of… my guess is for the same fears federal has.

I’m saying federal probably has some worry about this. Why they haven’t rolled out to all cartridges, and why their first offering was a new specific offering.

Well the Nas3 cases are inherently different than the peak alloy cases federal makes. Have you been able to reload the Nas3 cases?

On the vortex podcast the federal rep specifically spoke about the 80k pressures was due to using the sig 277 fury as a reference for getting saami approval. 80k gave desired performance and was easier to argue for approval through saami. I'm sure the case could be pushed a good bit further but I'm not going to be the redneck engineer doing it.

If Federal had any legitmate worry about this the lawyers would have stopped it before we even heard of it.

 

[omicron1792]

Well the Nas3 cases are inherently different than the peak alloy cases federal makes. Have you been able to reload the Nas3 cases?

On the vortex podcast the federal rep specifically spoke about the 80k pressures was due to using the sig 277 fury as a reference for getting saami approval. 80k gave desired performance and was easier to argue for approval through saami. I'm sure the case could be pushed a good bit further but I'm not going to be the redneck engineer doing it.

If Federal had any legitmate worry about this the lawyers would have stopped it before we even heard of it.

See. I think them making it a new cartridge where they can semi control who makes a gun to shoot them is the compromise they came to with the lawyers.

 

[AlaskaRed]

See. I think them making it a new cartridge where they can semi control who makes a gun to shoot them is the compromise they came to with the lawyers.

What? This is the whole point of SAAMI approved cartridges. This same thing happens with any new cartridge released. Ammo and rifle manufacturers have been using SAAMI since 1926 to make sure the ammo and chambers(rifle) match the correct specifications. I don't quite understand the point you are getting at? The process in which Federal released the 7BC is no different than the process Hornady took to release the 7PRC.

 

[swampy14]

I know federal is going to go up and down in caliber size and have a backcountry family line of cartridges similar to the Creedmoor/prc families

 

[silver15tacoma]

I know federal is going to go up and down in caliber size and have a backcountry family line of cartridges similar to the Creedmoor/prc families

How do you know? Not trying to be snarky just genuinely curious.

 

[AlaskaRed]

I hope so. I think there is a use case here where maybe a federal cartridge will finally stick around. Remington loading ammo for it now seems a step forward. Their federal rep has mentioned on podcasts there will be something coming but didn't mention a full lineup or anything.

This year I will be doing some testing with reloading to see it is a viable long term cartridge for my uses as I prefer to handload. Factory ammo has been great so far though for me.

 

[swampy14]

How do you know? Not trying to be snarky just genuinely curious.

I understand. I've spoken with several federal reps at different hunt expos, mainly the Nashville SCI expo and the Texas Trophy Hunters Association in Dallas.

the Rep I met in Dallas noted at a new bullet 6.5 bullet, 140gr TA. I figured it would be a 6.5 backcountry loading but it is being loaded in the 6.5prc according to midwayusa but not a available last i checked.
The reps I met in Nashville strongly hinted when I asked them about it. They said federal learned a bunch from the 7BC and the adjustments they made and they want to get the next one right.

 

[swampy14]

I hope so. I think there is a use case here where maybe a federal cartridge will finally stick around. Remington loading ammo for it now seems a step forward. Their federal rep has mentioned on podcasts there will be something coming but didn't mention a full lineup or anything.

This year I will be doing some testing with reloading to see it is a viable long term cartridge for my uses as I prefer to handload. Factory ammo has been great so far though for me.

Remington and Federal share the same parent company so it makes sense. Definitely a step in the right direction having a moderately priced box of ammunition.

I’m rechambering a 308 into a 6.5cm but if federal releases a short action something before I get around to it I might go that route

 

[bnewt3]

See. I think them making it a new cartridge where they can semi control who makes a gun to shoot them is the compromise they came to with the lawyers.

According to federal, the firearm is no different.

Which is evidenced by multiple manufacturers having options at launch.

 

[silver15tacoma]

I understand. I've spoken with several federal reps at different hunt expos, mainly the Nashville SCI expo and the Texas Trophy Hunters Association in Dallas.

the Rep I met in Dallas noted at a new bullet 6.5 bullet, 140gr TA. I figured it would be a 6.5 backcountry loading but it is being loaded in the 6.5prc according to midwayusa but not a available last i checked.
The reps I met in Nashville strongly hinted when I asked them about it. They said federal learned a bunch from the 7BC and the adjustments they made and they want to get the next one right.

Thanks for clarifying! Praying for something that is 30 cal!