700yd practice, calling wind sucks!

[hickswr]

I've wondered about this and I think you're right. I can even tell when the gun goes off that it doesn't seem like the loads are very consistent. It's just so cheap! but maybe capping it to like 400 and trying to find a ELDM loading that I can use for longer range. I hate to start loading my own since that just takes time but maybe that's the answer to get it cheaper to shoot longer.
I use 147 factory ammo for my hunting round, maybe the key is to start loading what I need instead of trying to find a "deal" on them and buying enough for hunting season. It just sucks paying $32/box vs $15.50/box for the S&B

You’d be better off only shooting half as much with consistent ammo for long range practice. If you don’t know why you missed, you haven’t learned anything.

This the answer for cheaper (good) ammo-
The 130gr also shoots well! Buy in bulk and save. I’ve never purchased from that retailer, just the first link that popped up. But that is the ammo you want for a cheaper 6.5 training round. (It will also kill critters)

Do not buy FMJ ammo for anything where accuracy is an expectation.

Top 6.5mm Creedmoor 143gr HPBT Ammo by Norma

Explore Norma's 6.5mm Creedmoor 143gr HPBT ammo, precision-engineered for top performance. Reloadable brass cases, 2,723 FPS velocity. Shop now!

ammunationusa.com

 

[West2East]

I have 3 boxes of 140ELDM that I am thinking of seeing how they do just to burn some powder waiting until my hunt. I don't use the 140's for hunting so I might as well get some practice in with them. They may change my mind on higher-BC quality ammo for practice at range.

 

[ddowning]

These threads come up so often it's crazy. The best way to learn to shoot is to do it....a lot. We used to travel and shoot matches all over. We shot thousands of rounds a year, usually a few hundred a week. We shot in all kinds of new areas with new terrain we had never shot in before under time constraints. At best I was a 10th place to 15th place guy at national 2 days and a 1st-10th place guy at regional level matches. When you shoot that much in that many places, you learn what effects the difficulty of making a first round hit. You become faster and also more likely to say "let's get closer."

Even at my best, my first round hit distance on a 12" square in mediocre conditions was between 800 and 1000 yards with a 6mm. The crazy thing is, a second round hit was pretty doable to the transonic range of the bullet. 2nd round hits at 1400 yards were pretty doable with a 115 dtac going 3150fps. First round hits on 12" squares just aren't very easy. When you get in tricky conditions it is even harder. There were times I would question getting a first round hit at 500 yards, even when I was shooting a bunch. Shooting a lot, in different conditions, will allow you to instantly recognize if it is a high probability shot or not.

Guys see the technology that is available for long range shooting. Of course, it is sold as easy in orde to sell product. It is pretty simple, but you still have to practice a ton to develop and maintain the skill. The knowledge is out there, but it is not as simple as buying the gear and going to do it. It sounds like a lot of your friends think the gear will do it for them. Good on you for realizing that is not the case and practicing in order to learn.

 

[West2East]

Guys see the technology that is available for long range shooting. Of course, it is sold as easy in orde to sell product. It is pretty simple, but you still have to practice a ton to develop and maintain the skill. The knowledge is out there, but it is not as simple as buying the gear and going to do it. It sounds like a lot of your friends think the gear will do it for them. Good on you for realizing that is not the case and practicing in order to learn.

It does seem like that. The onset of dials on budget scopes brought the idea that all it took was cranking the dial and shooting. I remember when I first started with a Vortex Viper in probably 2014, I took it to the range, sighted in and shot the gong at 500 and figured I was good. Now all of my shots were from 10yds - 300yds so I never did any "damage" but it wasn't until probably 2020 that I started looking at the long range ability of my system and then me. Because I realized if I wanted to hit that 12" plate the first shot, I needed a lot of work, and a lot more shooting.
But that part is missed by a lot. Also, I don't know if it also has to do with an ethic of pulling the trigger and expecting to kill. Sometimes, it seems like there is the feeling among some that if I hit the animal anywhere with my 300WM, it will die. And it doesn't always happen that way.

 

[ddowning]

Also, I don't know if it also has to do with an ethic of pulling the trigger and expecting to kill. Sometimes, it seems like there is the feeling among some that if I hit the animal anywhere with my 300WM, it will die. And it doesn't always happen that way.

I think there are some people, no idea how many, that adopt the lead in the air philosophy. In my opinion, you should be surprised when you miss a shot on game. If you are not surprised you missed then you shouldn't have taken the shot.

As far as hitting anywhere, people are extremely ignorant. My kids have a smokeless muzzleloader with a massive brake to hunt whitetails with (we wear electronic muffs to hunt with it). It shoots what is the equivalent of a varmint series 300 grain nosler ballistic tip (if such a thing existed). My kids have shot a ton. More than the average hunter shoots in a lifetime, but they learned from the beginning to build good positions, etc. Sometimes they get in awkward positions on close hunting shots and don't think it will matter because the shot is "close." Even with that massive, highly frangible bullet going 2750 fps, there has only been one bad shot that missed the vitals by couple inches and the shrapnel from the bullet got to the heart/lungs and killed the deer. There have been a few other instances where we have had to find the deer and put a good bullet in it. This is with a gun that hits like a freight train compared to a 300WM. I feel fortunate to have the whitetail hunting opportunity we have to kill multiple deer a year, and I know that creates a lot of experience to draw from. People's ignorance about bullet performance is pretty surprising to me, but I have heard a few people say the same things about it.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

Good practicing! I do similar with my own gear, have a couple spots I shoot at, one is in the trees so generally if any wind it's in face or up azz so easy to stay on steel, the other one is prairie so you get to see more of what you saw. I shoot .5 g1 stuff pretty slow 2400-2600 fps and generally always send 3 when out practicing or trueing, and run a 15" circle gong but I also put a larger 4x4' plywood behind it with paper stapled to it so I can check what's going on when off steel at outer ranges, generally shoot only up to 600 give or take 40 or so. Up to say 5 mph I seem to notice it's pretty easy to keep moa 3 shots circular to about 500, then when I move out to 600 the horizontal goes into the 1.5 to 2 moa range but vertical still moa or less. I would expect the higher bc 6.5 cm stuff should make a little easier but other cartridges I've shot over years sort of noticed similar, easy to shoot well to 500 and can handle quite a bit of conditions but once you get beyond that you have to play at a different level. So there's reasons most guys despite how far they shoot or compete at still have those 500-600 on game limits. It's a combo of things, tof, live target, and field conditions/shooting. I don't plan on shooting at anything requiring a tag past 500 with these slower rigs but definitely will send it on coyotes as far as I can.

 

[Pilsner]

Got a source for reasonably priced smoke canisters? Also, I wish I knew this trick about a month ago when the local fireworks tent was having its July 5th sale...
Thanks,
Doc

This is excellent information that I wish more folks would consider.

When we used to teach long range classes we would have a guy down range with a radio set off smoke canisters at the targets.

This would show the shooters not only what the wind was doing at the target compared to the shooting position, but just how much more it moves once it gets further away from the ground.

When shooting a bullet at 700 yards, in steep terrain, consider what the high point of your bullet could be, not only the trajectory arc of needing to dial 10 feet above the target, but what the terrain looks like during flight. Understanding the bullets high point for the shot can make or break a wind call.

The ONLY way to learn this is to go shoot. Take notes. Rinse and repeat.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Got a source for reasonably priced smoke canisters? Also, I wish I knew this trick about a month ago when the local fireworks tent was having its July 5th sale...
Thanks,
Doc

I’ve use the cold burning EG18s recently. Last time I bought them for around $13 a piece.

Smoke production is good, good high vis color, no pop or grenade noise like some others. Run time is meh. Roughly 30 seconds to a minute of high production smoke per unit. Enough time to observe and learn in most cases.

 

[West2East]

Speaking of shooting .22lr. We had a .22 competition held annually by my church this past weekend, steel target shoot with targets from 20 - 100 yds(targets are placed at 20, 40, 60, 80 & 100). Out of about 60 other guys, I placed third, with a shootout at the end for third with 4 others at a final target at 120yds. My final score was 44/50 in the main completion and I went 8/10 on the shootout for third at 120yds. First and second were at 46/50 for the main competition.
Rules are standing offhand only, no rests. Targets are all about 6 - 12inches depending on the "animal" shape. Rifles ranged from Christenson to Bi-mart special Ruger 10/22. Mine is a 10/22 with the cheapest Bushnell 3-9 from Bi-Mart from the early 2000s, I used CCI standard velocity as I always do.
Anyway, thought I'd share.

 

[Navaluk]

I suck it up and practice in the wind with my hunting ammo. I want to learn to call wind with the exact same ammo I will need to call wind with in my hunting situation. Using different bullets and different ammo would cause me issues.

 

[S-3 ranch]

I’m curious to why yall don’t use training aids like surveying stakes with orange markings tape to show what the wind is doing at the different points of view and on target, or use a spotter / observer to call conditions and corrections
I was lucky enough to have a uncle who was a fantastic teacher and fanatical shooter, who made me practice my stalking and practical shooting distance discipline, plus one of my dad’s college friends was on the army and Olympic rifle team, and even he practiced practicality on shooting distance
I don’t usually shoot steel or plastic water bottles past 400-500 yards
Or at least to where my FPS reaches sub 1800
I usually have a lot of questions and what if’s so hopefully I can chime in with a few more

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I’m curious to why yall don’t use training aids like surveying stakes with orange markings tape to show what the wind is doing at the different points of view and on target, or use a spotter / observer to call conditions and corrections

Are those things normally found where you hunt?


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[West2East]

I’m curious to why yall don’t use training aids like surveying stakes with orange markings tape to show what the wind is doing at the different points of view and on target, or use a spotter / observer to call conditions and corrections

Generally, I'm moving too quick and didn't think to take tape the last time.
I also don't have someone I can go with all the time so I rely on videoing the shots. Normally, I can spot impacts over 300yds though.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[S-3 ranch]

Are those things normally found where you hunt?


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

Yes , some times I laser mark every 100 yards down a road or field I hunt and put survey tape on a limb or drive a stake in the ground ( and study the grass or tree movement in comparison to the streamers)
When I put fingerling fish in the lake and water turkeys are eating them so we have to take them out so they are good practice
They get in the dead trees to dry off it’s 700 yards to the 1st tree and 900 +/- to second tree and I have survey tape to show the difference in wind at different points so I can adjust my POA ( when friends are over we make a game of it and spot for each other)
But I am using a 26 inch 300wm with 180gr or a hot load 264wm with 140 nosler BT , not my hunting rifle on LD practice ( kinda cheating)
I also have a marlin 22lr I shoot pigeons off the barns ( about 150 yards away)

 

[West2East]

Went out again to validate at the 700yds distance using 147s for my upcoming antelope hunt. The 147s definitely group better and give a lot more confidence.
Wind was very tricky today at my position it would feel like 5ish from 1 o'clock at the target it would be 5ish from 3 o'clock. For my first shot I held about 1 min right of the target, I missed by about 4 moa right of the target... wind hold ended up being about 3 min left when it was calm to 4 min with a gust. Which for my gun is about a 8mph full value left to right.
I videoed my shots again so I may upload it later. I did notice my recoil is coming left and back. I can normally spot the shots, but just barely getting the scope back to the target area in time. I worked on my cheek weld and I don't think that's it. I don't feel like the gun is coming straight back.
Any tips?
Shooting off of a bipod and with my hand and rangefinder in its case as a rear bag.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Southern Lights]

You've basically run into reality. I have shot a lot of long range. Out to 400 you can be pretty sloppy and still do OK with wind unless it's really howling. From 400-600 wind calls are a significant error. Beyond 600 it's extremely easy to make a bad wind call and make a horrible shot on an animal.

Everyone has a "1/2 MOA" rifle on the bench. In the field almost everyone I've seen is a 2-4MOA shooter. Maybe really dialed in competition shooters are 1.5 MOA in the field, but they practice constantly many thousands of rounds a year.

 

[Southern Lights]

For the record, this weekend I made a 680y cold bore first round hit on 12" plate with my 270 shooting Barnes LRX129 of all things. But I wouldn't shoot at an animal at that distance.

I did however have a shot on a deer at 130y with my thermal and missed it because I took too long screwing around trying to shoot off my pack sitting in total darkness. I pushed aside the pack out of frustration and went to my loop sling, but the deer had heard me and ran into the trees.

The moral of the story here is that when hunting getting a bead on an animal at long range sounds cool, but getting closer and into position quickly to make the shot is often what matters most.

 

[West2East]

For the record, this weekend I made a 680y cold bore first round hit on 12" plate with my 270 shooting Barnes LRX129 of all things. But I wouldn't shoot at an animal at that distance.

I did however have a shot on a deer at 130y with my thermal and missed it because I took too long screwing around trying to shoot off my pack sitting in total darkness. I pushed aside the pack out of frustration and went to my loop sling, but the deer had heard me and ran into the trees.

The moral of the story here is that when hunting getting a bead on an animal at long range sounds cool, but getting closer and into position quickly to make the shot is often what matters most.

I've spent a lot more time this year practicing positional shooting, quickly kind of based on the shoot2hunt 100yd target. I set up my 9x13 plate at like 350 and practice quick prone, kneeling and sitting shots and just the practice alone has helped confidence at that range and what is doable and with what I can do it in.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Southern Lights]

The best thing I ever did to improve my shooting wasn't any LR school (I've done a few). Rather, it was the $50 Appleseed course which drilled in how to use a loop sling and how to get NPOA quickly. No other course came close to field practical hunting that I use constantly. The hunt I messed up this weekend would have been a piece of cake if I just used the loop sling sitting and didn't try to get fancy shooting off a pack.

 

[West2East]

Practice pays off when it counts. Was able to make a 1 shot kill on an antelope at 475yds
Wind was 5 mph from about 11:30 so I just held a little left of where I wanted to hit. Entrance was just behind the shoulder.

Then the next day first thing in the morning I went out to take a 735yd cold bore shot. Aim point is the arrow.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk