6 Creed vs Fast Twist 243ai

[TxLite]

Have an action inbound and planning to put together a new 18" (16" is also a possibility) 6mm build to be my go-to deer/antelope rifle and these are the two I am primarily looking at. Ideally I'd like to use H1000 because I have probably 14lb of it that won't get used otherwise. Bullet would be 108 eld-m, 108 EH, or 105 hybrid.

From what I gather, the primary benefit of the creed over the 243ai is that it is plug and play. Nothing crazy to deal with here. At my elevation and 2850MV it gets ~700 yard of expansion which would be plenty for my uses.

The primary benefits of the 243ai is that it would have higher velocities for a little added insurance on bullet upset (it seems 150ish fps would be expected). Additionally, Lapua and Peterson make 243 brass fireforming.

Does anybody have experience with both that can provide feedback? Any regrets with your choice? Anything I should consider?

 

[sveltri]

With H1000 you're likely going to send a bunch of unburned powder down the pipe with the 243 AI. I was surprised how inefficient it was in mine with a 22" barrel. H4831SC worked much better for me.

 

[TxLite]

With H1000 you're likely going to send a bunch of unburned powder down the pipe with the 243 AI. I was surprised how inefficient it was in mine with a 22" barrel. H4831SC worked much better for me.

Thanks for the feedback and duly noted.

The biggest drive for the ai over the standard 243 is the reduced need for trimming (and it looks sexier which is obviously the most important)

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I plan to order a barrel over black friday and have considered the 243AI but keep circling around to the 6creed. Don't have to waste time or barrel life on fire forming loads and lots of good brass options in stock. Sure if you quickly develop a good fireforming load you can practice with it but it just delays developing your final load and being efficient with your practice on that gun. Those are my thoughts having fire formed 280AI in the past (and stretched primer pockets unexpectantly and had to rush to fire form more brass before a hunt...).

 

[TxLite]

I plan to order a barrel over black friday and have considered the 243AI but keep circling around to the 6creed. Don't have to waste time or barrel life on fire forming loads and lots of good brass options in stock. Sure if you quickly develop a good fireforming load you can practice with it but it just delays developing your final load and being efficient with your practice on that gun. Those are my thoughts having fire formed 280AI in the past (and stretched primer pockets unexpectantly and had to rush to fire form more brass before a hunt...).

This is kind of where I’m stuck as well.

I’m also wondering if my H1000 dreams are misguided for either cartridge with the shorter barrel. I don’t necessarily want to sandblast my baffles. I may end up having to go H4350 after all

 

[wind gypsy]

I wouldn't get a shorty 6 creed with the intentions of feeding it h1000.

Have not done an AI so cant comment but creed has enough juice for me.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

This is kind of where I’m stuck as well.

I’m also wondering if my H1000 dreams are misguided for either cartridge with the shorter barrel. I don’t necessarily want to sandblast my baffles. I may end up having to go H4350 after all

Here's a wrench in the discussion if you're focused on that h1000 (you could just sell/trade it too btw), would a 6-284win utilize it well in a short barrel? I'm not sure off hand.

Less barrel life for sure, but no fire forming, just necking down brass.

 

[sveltri]

Here's a wrench in the discussion if you're focused on that h1000 (you could just sell/trade it too btw), would a 6-284win utilize it well in a short barrel? I'm not sure off hand.

Less barrel life for sure, but no fire forming, just necking down brass.

You'd probably just end up sending more powder down the barrel.

 

[TxLite]

Here's a wrench in the discussion if you're focused on that h1000 (you could just sell/trade it too btw), would a 6-284win utilize it well in a short barrel? I'm not sure off hand.

Less barrel life for sure, but no fire forming, just necking down brass.

That was in the running as well but brass is harder to come by (not impossible though). Ultimately the other two seemed like easier options. I was also considering just a standard 243 win. I’ve got a Henderson so the extra trimming wouldn’t be the end of the world, but the other two seemed to have some distinct advantages

 

[HighUintas]

This is kind of where I’m stuck as well.

I’m also wondering if my H1000 dreams are misguided for either cartridge with the shorter barrel. I don’t necessarily want to sandblast my baffles. I may end up having to go H4350 after all

I wouldn't mess w 243ai. There's two different reamer types in existence, which would make using off the shelf dies more complicated to make sure it matches up w the reamer. And, fireforming sucks balls. I have a wildcat ai barrel and I quit shooting it. I got tired of the custom this/that etc.

If you do a wildcat 243, I'd recommend 6slr. You basically just run 243 brass through the die to set shoulder angle to 30* and go shoot.

 

[TxLite]

I wouldn't mess w 243ai. There's two different reamer types in existence, which would make using off the shelf dies more complicated to make sure it matches up w the reamer. And, fireforming sucks balls. I have a wildcat ai barrel and I quit shooting it. I got tired of the custom this/that etc.

If you do a wildcat 243, I'd recommend 6slr. You basically just run 243 brass through the die to set shoulder angle to 30* and go shoot.

Thanks for the tip. I didn’t have that one on my radar. I’ll check into it

 

[Axlrod]

I have/have had a couple of each. Love the Ackley, but the 6 Creed is hard to beat. But fireforming is no big deal. And shooting more with the gun you are going to hunt with is never a bad thing.

I buy 150 or so for every new gun. Fire them all once, finding pressure with different bullets/powders. Barrel is going to speed up, right around when I have fired all the brass once. Then I do a little load development. So technically I fire form new brass for every cartridge.

On the 243AI several I have loaded for all liked H4831sc with the 105+ grain bullets.

 

[Dioni A]

I built a 27 inch barrel 243 AI and was pretty unimpressed with the speeds. I think real world numbers you’re much less than 150 FPS difference. I would go 6creed just based off of simplicity. They’re functionally identical, but one takes a lot more effort

 

[amassi]

If you want 150 fps over 6 creed you need to step up to the 6.5 prc or 284 win case. Neck them down to 6mm and let er eat
Both like to use H1000
The 6 prc is a real sweet heart


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TxLite]

If you want 150 fps over 6 creed you need to step up to the 6.5 prc or 284 win case. Neck them down to 6mm and let er eat
Both like to use H1000
The 6 prc is a real sweet heart

The action I have coming for it is a standard bolt face so I’d have to go 6-284.

The lower recoil is also something that draws me to the smaller cases. I really enjoy shooting my 6 arc but it’s in an AR platform and I much prefer bolt guns.

 

[SloppyJ]

6 creed is the play as much as I love the thought of another ackley. Either one won't be well suited for h1000 though.

Getting great brass for the 6creed is an easy task. Pack it full of h4350 or n555 and pick a 100+gr bullet of your choosing. Easy button. I have a 26" setup for matches and an 18" setup for hunting. It's the perfect deer rifle for me running around 2850fps for me out of the 18". It will handle anything I throw at it and then some.

Someone said it the other day. The 6 creed is the gateway drug. While you're ordering barrels, go ahead and get a matching 22 creed. You'll want one soon enough.

 

[TxLite]

get a matching 22 creed

Already have this planned to go on a tikka when the kids are ready to hunt lol

 

[B23]

Here's a wrench in the discussion if you're focused on that h1000 (you could just sell/trade it too btw), would a 6-284win utilize it well in a short barrel? I'm not sure off hand.

Less barrel life for sure, but no fire forming, just necking down brass.

A 6-284 would be the direction I'd go and H1000 would get you in the 2900-3000fps range with 105-108gr bullets in a 18in barrel.

If you have trouble finding brass let me know I have a few hundred pieces of new unfired Norma 6.5-284 brass I'd let go of to help someone get going on a 6-284 build.

My 6-284 is probably my favorite rifle.

 

[SloppyJ]

A 6-284 would be the direction I'd go and H1000 would get you in the 2900-3000fps range with 105-108gr bullets in a 18in barrel.

If you have trouble finding brass let me know I have a few hundred pieces of new unfired Norma 6.5-284 brass I'd let go of to help someone get going on a 6-284 build.

My 6-284 is probably my favorite rifle.

I've always loved the 6.5-284 and think the 6mm version is very cool as well. If that's all of the velocity you're getting then it'd be hard to justify over a 6 creed IMO. Especially considering the brass work compared to off the shelf ready to roll. All that said, I still think it'd be awesome to own one or both of them and that's coming from a guy with a 6 creed and a 6.5prc.

Already have this planned to go on a tikka when the kids are ready to hunt lol

Kids.... pshhh forget them. My son will be fine with his .223 for a LONG time. When his brother is old enough, he's getting the same thing so I can retire one of them to truck gun status. Selfishly, I thought the same about building a 22cm for the "kids" but I'd make it too nice and wouldn't want them to bang it all around. I have no need for one but it will likely be my next rifle. They're too damn cool.

 

[TxLite]

Kids.... pshhh forget them. My son will be fine with his .223 for a LONG time. When his brother is old enough, he's getting the same thing so I can retire one of them to truck gun status. Selfishly, I thought the same about building a 22cm for the "kids" but I'd make it too nice and wouldn't want them to bang it all around. I have no need for one but it will likely be my next rifle. They're too damn cool.

By kids I meant “kids” (in case my wife sees this)