6 ARC ammunition

[CoMulies]

I literally just posted a 688 yard kill with a .243… there are mounds of evidence in this thread that 6mm will kill elk at extended ranges and you just keep digging in

 

[wabash503]

I literally just posted a 688 yard kill with a .243… there are mounds of evidence in this thread that 6mm will kill elk at extended ranges and you just keep digging in

I do, because I understand that you need a margin of error at those distances that no one wants to acknowledge is far greater with a 223 or 6 arc or even a 243.

You guys seen to think just because a few people have been successful at it, that it is the best thing out there, and that couldn't be further from the truth.

For every luck shot (and I stick by that characterization), there are many more instances of failure. You just didn't want acknowledge that. And that's fine, but for the random guy that reads this thread in the future, I want then to at least question this non sense.

There is far more evidence that this isn't a good idea. If you truly respect elk as a game animal, and you want to actually be an ethical hunter, than you would base your cartridge decision on what is best to give them a quick kill. And 223 and 6 arc at 600y is not it

And I am firm on that. Call it dug in if you'd like, but I've read a lot of the other things the posters on here have said in other threads. I'm confident they are speaking out of ignorance, and that comes from a greater experience and understanding than they have.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I do, because I understand that you need a margin of error at those distances that no one wants to acknowledge is far greater with a 223 or 6 arc or even a 243.

You guys seen to think just because a few people have been successful at it, that it is the best thing out there, and that couldn't be further from the truth.

For every luck shot (and I stick by that characterization), there are many more instances of failure. You just didn't want acknowledge that. And that's fine, but for the random guy that reads this thread in the future, I want then to at least question this non sense.

There is far more evidence that this isn't a good idea. If you truly respect elk as a game animal, and you want to actually be an ethical hunter, than you would base your cartridge decision on what is best to give them a quick kill. And 223 and 6 arc at 600y is not it

And I am firm on that. Call it dug in if you'd like, but I've read a lot of the other things the posters on here have said in other threads. I'm confident they are speaking out of ignorance, and that comes from a greater experience and understanding than they have.

Pretty wild assumptions man, there are a lot of guys on this forum shooting 1-5k rounds of ammo a year and doing some pretty incredible things with rifles at distance. I don’t have the time to currently practice as much as I would like so I self impose limits of 500 or less on live game. 90% of the time I hunt primitive weapons and am under 100 yards… yet it’s not group think to know that bullet designed to rapidly expand at 1800 fps will do that.
This whole assumption that people cannot be accurate at 600 yards and that a larger caliber with more recoil is necessary to account for margins of error is just telling on yourself. Sounds like You believe that because you can’t consistently make sub MOA hits on a 600 yard target. Also if the hits are marginal how is the larger caliber just magically making up for said marginal hits? And also if marginal hits with a larger caliber will still result in just wounding? How is that “ethical”

 

[amassi]

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[Tobe_B]

There once was a fudd from wabash.
A big elk he wanted to smash!
Into the field he went, his knowledge was trash.

1500 ftlbs is needed to slay!
The elk got shot 4 times that day.
And still managed to run away.
Because Barnes bullets are gay.

Listen. Some of us on here are reading through this forum while attempting to rock babies to sleep. The abrupt laughter from stuff like this just sets that back. So thanks for that.


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[HairyScandinavian]

I never could figure out this "margin of error" thing people like to throw out. How many 30 caliber TTSX does it take to kill an Elk with gut shots if it takes 4 in the vitals? I see it all the time, not just referring to you Wabash, like a 300 WM kills them if you shoot them in the toe with it? Gut shots are gut shots no matter the wallop, meat hits are meat hits no matter the wallop. At least with a fragmenting bullet rather than a bonded or copper you might get a fragment to sever an artery under the spine or something. Put any cartridge through the lungs and the animal dies PDQ, it's not that hard to imagine.

 

[KurtR]

Wallop factor nothing matters more

 

[wabash503]

Pretty wild assumptions man, there are a lot of guys on this forum shooting 1-5k rounds of ammo a year and doing some pretty incredible things with rifles at distance. I don’t have the time to currently practice as much as I would like so I self impose limits of 500 or less on live game. 90% of the time I hunt primitive weapons and am under 100 yards… yet it’s not group think to know that bullet designed to rapidly expand at 1800 fps will do that.
This whole assumption that people cannot be accurate at 600 yards and that a larger caliber with more recoil is necessary to account for margins of error is just telling on yourself. Sounds like You believe that because you can’t consistently make sub MOA hits on a 600 yard target. Also if the hits are marginal how is the larger caliber just magically making up for said marginal hits? And also if marginal hits with a larger caliber will still result in just wounding? How is that “ethical”

This is laughable.... To tell me I'm making assumptions, and then the entire second half of your post is exactly what you're accusing me of.

First off, I'm not saying I have more experience than everyone of RS... But based on what I've heard and seen from the pro 223/6 arc to 600y crowd in this thread, I know that I have more knowledge and experience.

I don't think you guys are hearing me. Su I'll try to be more explicit with this post.

First, I'm not saying the shot can't be made. What I am saying is it's an incredibly lucky one, if if does happen at those distances. For starters, go check out just Erik Corina's YouTube channel...a lot of good stuff on there about long range. He's not the only guy, winning in the wind is good too, so is little crow gunworks, to have a couple others. But I'm singling out Erik, because he is a world class shooter.

And Erik, if you watch his recent videos shooting matches in the wind, struggled to maintain a sub moa group, with an amazing gun, and a proper long range cartridge meticulously hand loaded.

And you're trying to tell me this bunch of guys here know better than him what it takes to be that precise... By choosing a 6 arc or 223 at 600y?

I touched on it earlier, but there are so many factors that go into a 600y shot, that you guys admit, and I agree, would have to be darn near perfect on shot placement, to drop an elk at that distance. Range, air temp, elevation, wind, shot angle, animal movement, animal position, etc... And you are screaming that it's ethical, when that 223 in just a 10 mph wind is going to drift 4 ft in a perfect wind?

I'm not buying that. Wind isn't perfect... It's inconsistent, it varies along the path, there are updrafts, downdrafts, gusts, wind dies down... All that can be going on at the same time along the path. With a bullet at susceptible to drift. It is not ethical.

And you guys keep talking smack about my 308 story. Those were all double lung shots. Shots that you guys would think are perfect, if you placed them with your 223 or 6 arc. They gouged 2" would channels through that animal... Which isn't a knock on the 308. It shows you just how tough an elk is. I've also seen a high should 7 PRC knock an elk down, and he got up and walked away. I've seen an elk take 3x 300 win mag in the vitals before going down. The wound channel from a perfectly placed 6 arc or 223 at 600y (which these shots were at - 550-640) would not create the same terminal effects on those animals.

You also don't seem to know that energy plays a factor... Not you personally, but the group. You want the bullet to carry that energy and then dump it in the vitals. That is what sustains massive internal damage to the animal. Massive, even at 600y.

I'm.not saying your 223 or 6 ARC wouldn't do a good job at closer range. But OP, said out to 600y. And that's really where I have a huge issue, with this use case.

These are not assumptions. These are facts. Ones that this group of posters wants to talk around or ignore, or insult. That doesn't make my statements any less true.

 

[wabash503]

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If you think ethics have no place in hunting, you shouldn't be doing it.

 

[wabash503]

I've said enough in this thread. Last post. For anyone that read this far and thinks I'm wrong. Watch this video. 77 TMK, at point blank range on a simulated elk. Then ask yourself, how likely is it that you might hit the shoulder or bone when hunting an elk? This video should be enough to make a better choice.

** Mic drop**

 

[KurtR]

Are those the wallop factor boys