6.5 for elk

[pucmw11]

Read and learn. You’ll probably be ready to delete your first comment mentioning “energy”.

I've probably put 100hrs into researching KE vs FPS at impact and cannot find comprehensive data confirming or denying either side. I will say that some of the kills at distance in that thread are amazing (no doubt stellar shot placement) but I still have yet to find comprehensive data confirming the shock value of retained KE at point of impact vs velocity as it pertains to wound channel and hemorrhaging. Not even including the complexities of one's bullet choice and how frangible vs mono selections impact the KE dump on impact versus length of wound channel. End of the day, shot placement is key, and that point is clear. 6.5cm's low recoil and high BC selections have that in spades as long as the shooter does their job.

 

[svivian]

I've probably put 100hrs into researching KE vs FPS at impact and cannot find comprehensive data confirming or denying either side. I will say that some of the kills at distance in that thread are amazing (no doubt stellar shot placement) but I still have yet to find comprehensive data confirming the shock value of retained KE at point of impact vs velocity as it pertains to wound channel and hemorrhaging. Not even including the complexities of one's bullet choice and how frangible vs mono selections impact the KE dump on impact versus length of wound channel. End of the day, shot placement is key, and that point is clear. 6.5cm's low recoil and high BC selections have that in spades as long as the shooter does their job.

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I've probably put 100hrs into researching KE vs FPS at impact and cannot find comprehensive data confirming or denying either side. I will say that some of the kills at distance in that thread are amazing (no doubt stellar shot placement) but I still have yet to find comprehensive data confirming the shock value of retained KE at point of impact vs velocity as it pertains to wound channel and hemorrhaging. Not even including the complexities of one's bullet choice and how frangible vs mono selections impact the KE dump on impact versus length of wound channel. End of the day, shot placement is key, and that point is clear. 6.5cm's low recoil and high BC selections have that in spades as long as the shooter does their job.

Get off the internet and go actually kill. 100 hours worth of processing animals will teach you way more than 1,000 hours of reading crap on the internet.

 

[pucmw11]

Get off the internet and go actually kill. 100 hours worth of processing animals will teach you way more than 1,000 hours of reading crap on the internet.

I live in CO, and pulling tags is a bit of a pain in the ass (especially this year) but I do what I can with spring turkey and 2nd rifle muley. Haven't delved into out-of-state hunting yet to expand my horizons. No doubt wise words, I just don't have the means to achieve that much hunted time yet. Mostly wanting to upgrade my rifle and i've been enjoying the research and learning. Looking like a 6.5cm Tikka T3x Roughtech with a Trijicon tenmile 3-18x44 is both in the cards and will be well suited for what I want to do. Just trying to confirm that so I don't regret not going with a larger caliber. Based on the linked posts recently, it seems more than capable with a well-placed shot and well-chosen bullet.

Thank you for the advice. I am actively seeking mentorship from some local hunters to expand my horizons too, just exhausting all avenues for learning.

 

[Mike D Texas]

That guy is a blow hard moron who proves any one can make a you tube video. I have tortured my self through other garbage videos he has put out. I cant believe his shoulder isnt in a sling from patting him self on the back so much. my brother sends me those videos just because he knows how aggravating and idiotic that guy is. The real gun smith...... i can think of a million smiths that are better.

So you have one of his rifles or is this just internet speak?

He is full of himself but I’ll bet he has killed more elk than most on this forum.

Funny thing is, people have been killing elk with “antiquated” cartridges for decades and I would argue they are better hunters because they actually got close to the animals instead of sniping them from 600-1000yards away.

New technologies no doubt produce better shooters, but not necessarily better hunters.


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[Mike D Texas]

Maybe so... However I do find it mildly frustrating that you revive an old thread and people complain. You post a new thread and people complain about not using the search feature. You read 100 pages of threads on a topic and seek a 1st hand recount of how something panned out (on an older post), people complain. He may never respond but why is that of concern to you? I'm just trying to make caliber decisions on future rifle purchases and not seeking someone's snarky responses. I'd love and would welcome useful feedback. I'm trying to leave a light footprint by NOT posting redundant posts, but I am seeking information I am not finding.

Welcome to Rokslide.


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[Indian Summer]

I've probably put 100hrs into researching KE vs FPS at impact and cannot find comprehensive data confirming or denying either side. I will say that some of the kills at distance in that thread are amazing (no doubt stellar shot placement) but I still have yet to find comprehensive data confirming the shock value of retained KE at point of impact vs velocity as it pertains to wound channel and hemorrhaging. Not even including the complexities of one's bullet choice and how frangible vs mono selections impact the KE dump on impact versus length of wound channel. End of the day, shot placement is key, and that point is clear. 6.5cm's low recoil and high BC selections have that in spades as long as the shooter does their job.

Lmao. Take all of those books and stack them up a couple feet thick. Maybe put a couple pieces of rebar between the pages. Then shoot some different bullets through them. Your research should take about 30 minutes max.


Better yet go shoot elk. Play it safe and start with the heaviest caliber you can comfortably shoot. Work your way down from there. Once you don’t recover an elk ask yourself why did I switch from the heaviest gun I could accurately shoot? Class dismissed

 

[KurtR]

So you have one of his rifles or is this just internet speak?

He is full of himself but I’ll bet he has killed more elk than most on this forum.

Funny thing is, people have been killing elk with “antiquated” cartridges for decades and I would argue they are better hunters because they actually got close to the animals instead of sniping them from 600-1000yards away.

New technologies no doubt produce better shooters, but not necessarily better hunters.


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Why would I buy something from some one who is like listening to finger nails on a chalk board. I never said anything about how many elk that guy had killed. I said he would suck him self off off he could he loves the sound of his voice so much.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

You have to expect potential for poor results when using a match bullet. The manufacturers specifically state "Not Intended For Hunting Purposes." Can't blame the cartridge/caliber/firearm on poor choice of bullets. 2 elk, 2 bears and a dozen deer have been thumped with the 143gr ELDX that Hornady designed to be hunted with. If the bullet doesn't pass through, the penetration is still admirable. Finally ran out of them so I'm moving on to a 140gr Accubond, which is IMO the perfect hunting bullet for the cartridge. But many others that are made specifically for hunting will be better than any match bullet.

Would you be surprised if I provided the exact opposite language from hornady describing an eldm?

Hornady is well aware of the terminal performance of the eldm.

 

[svivian]

I live in CO, and pulling tags is a bit of a pain in the ass (especially this year) but I do what I can with spring turkey and 2nd rifle muley. Haven't delved into out-of-state hunting yet to expand my horizons. No doubt wise words, I just don't have the means to achieve that much hunted time yet. Mostly wanting to upgrade my rifle and i've been enjoying the research and learning. Looking like a 6.5cm Tikka T3x Roughtech with a Trijicon tenmile 3-18x44 is both in the cards and will be well suited for what I want to do. Just trying to confirm that so I don't regret not going with a larger caliber. Based on the linked posts recently, it seems more than capable with a well-placed shot and well-chosen bullet.

Thank you for the advice. I am actively seeking mentorship from some local hunters to expand my horizons too, just exhausting all avenues for learning.

Good choices on rifle, caliber and scope. You’ll be very happy with that combination

 

[Mike D Texas]

That guy is a blow hard moron who proves any one can make a you tube video. I have tortured my self through other garbage videos he has put out. I cant believe his shoulder isnt in a sling from patting him self on the back so much. my brother sends me those videos just because he knows how aggravating and idiotic that guy is. The real gun smith...... i can think of a million smiths that are better.

Why would I buy something from some one who is like listening to finger nails on a chalk board. I never said anything about how many elk that guy had killed. I said he would suck him self off off he could he loves the sound of his voice so much.

I was replying specifically to your comment below.

The real gun smith...... i can think of a million smiths that are better.

Since you made this statement, I assumed you had one of his rifles to compare against. So in other words it is just internet speak as I questioned.


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[Tmac]

I've probably put 100hrs into researching KE vs FPS at impact and cannot find comprehensive data confirming or denying either side. I will say that some of the kills at distance in that thread are amazing (no doubt stellar shot placement) but I still have yet to find comprehensive data confirming the shock value of retained KE at point of impact vs velocity as it pertains to wound channel and hemorrhaging. Not even including the complexities of one's bullet choice and how frangible vs mono selections impact the KE dump on impact versus length of wound channel. End of the day, shot placement is key, and that point is clear. 6.5cm's low recoil and high BC selections have that in spades as long as the shooter does their job.

It can get bewildering, but you are on the right track. That’s why about 7-8 years ago I quit paying attention to energy measures. I focused on selecting a bullet of a size capable of cleanly killing my quarry and delivering it to a lethal spot with enough velocity to work as designed. I generally pick my max range for a given hunts environmentals using the bullets minimum velocity to perform, and then add 100-150 fps just cause.

So for me the same cartridge can have very different ”lethal“ ranges based on the bullet selection. A Barnes TSX vs Hornady ELD-X being an example. More specifically, we’ve had very good results from new hunters for well over 15 years with a 260 Rem and 140 gr Core-Lokt to 300 yards or so. The recoil is more of a push and they shoot it well. So your 6.5CM will take elk, just know your bullet and plan the max range accordingly. Good luck!

 

[Stalker69]

So you have one of his rifles or is this just internet speak?

He is full of himself but I’ll bet he has killed more elk than most on this forum.

Funny thing is, people have been killing elk with “antiquated” cartridges for decades and I would argue they are better hunters because they actually got close to the animals instead of sniping them from 600-1000yards away.

New technologies no doubt produce better shooters, but not necessarily better hunters.


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Exactly, I normally archery hunt and black powder. And have killed a lot of animals with no problem. A high powered rifle or even my pistols, are like lighting bolts. Long range is not my thing, I want to be close, real close. I have killed animals at 400 yards, and it is very anti climatic, no enjoyment what so ever. Meat though. Now shooting a target and getting 3-5 shots touching each other, at longer distances, that will do it. People are becoming less hunters and pride them selves more on trying to becoming “ snipers”. Of which the majority are not.

 

[KurtR]

I was replying specifically to your comment below.



Since you made this statement, I assumed you had one of his rifles to compare against. So in other words it is just internet speak as I questioned.


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Welp I don’t need to compare junk against. Ga precision, short action customs , ts customs , lri to know he is a blow hard , pretty sure no one is running his junk in prs

 

[Mike D Texas]

Welp I don’t need to compare junk against. Ga precision, short action customs , ts customs , lri to know he is a blow hard , pretty sure no one is running his junk in prs

All conjecture with no substance to back it up.

I don’t have one of his rifles but I’m not going to talk shit about something I have no experience with.

He wouldn’t be building rifles after 40 years if he was turning out junk.


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[JohnJohnson]

All conjecture with no substance to back it up.

I don’t have one of his rifles but I’m not going to talk shit about something I have no experience with.

He wouldn’t be building rifles after 40 years if he was turning out junk.


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I'm still a bit confused about why someone's experience as a gunsmith translates into knowledge of terminal ballistics for hunting anyway. Starting around 1:10 of the video he said the 6.5CM was never designed to shoot past 600 yards, and that it was never meant to even shoot targets out to 1000. That's just delusional and sounds like a good indicator that he's making things up.

 

[KurtR]

All conjecture with no substance to back it up.

I don’t have one of his rifles but I’m not going to talk shit about something I have no experience with.

He wouldn’t be building rifles after 40 years if he was turning out junk.


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Some day you will get some life experience and learn how the world works. Now go watch some more videos

 

[Marshfly]

How many of you guys claiming a 6.5 is enough have actually shot/witnessed more than one or two elk getting shot with them? Will it kill them... absolutely! But as the range grows the margin of error shrinks drastically.




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This is my first time reading this thread. Found it interesting that Ryan posted this way back when. My how times have changed. LOL.

 

[pucmw11]

Good choices on rifle, caliber and scope. You’ll be very happy with that combination

Thanks! Looking forward to it.

 

[pucmw11]

It can get bewildering, but you are on the right track. That’s why about 7-8 years ago I quit paying attention to energy measures. I focused on selecting a bullet of a size capable of cleanly killing my quarry and delivering it to a lethal spot with enough velocity to work as designed. I generally pick my max range for a given hunts environmentals using the bullets minimum velocity to perform, and then add 100-150 fps just cause.

So for me the same cartridge can have very different ”lethal“ ranges based on the bullet selection. A Barnes TSX vs Hornady ELD-X being an example. More specifically, we’ve had very good results from new hunters for well over 15 years with a 260 Rem and 140 gr Core-Lokt to 300 yards or so. The recoil is more of a push and they shoot it well. So your 6.5CM will take elk, just know your bullet and plan the max range accordingly. Good luck!

It makes a lot of sense. Hard to rationalize every major posting pushing .30cal minimums with magnums preferred...but then I see all the real world 6.5 success that completely debunks it. At the end of the day, I want to continue to grow as a proficient rifleman, an ethical hunter, an educated reloader, and to also not lug a 12lb magnum into the rockies for a week...lol

Funny enough, I saw a post yesterday on a different forum stating that 7mm Rem Mag is too light for Elk. Half the internet data is laughable.

Your philosophy seems spot on.