6.5 for elk

[roosiebull]

Spent 10 minutes watching this to learn about poor cartridges for long range hunting and got 10 minutes of an old guy rambling.


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Well, you got my curiosity up, and you’re a better man than me, I didn’t quite last 2:30 into the video before my cringe reflex was uncontrollable

If he wasn’t sniffing hair back then, I guarantee he is by now

 

[roosiebull]

I've probably put 100hrs into researching KE vs FPS at impact and cannot find comprehensive data confirming or denying either side. I will say that some of the kills at distance in that thread are amazing (no doubt stellar shot placement) but I still have yet to find comprehensive data confirming the shock value of retained KE at point of impact vs velocity as it pertains to wound channel and hemorrhaging. Not even including the complexities of one's bullet choice and how frangible vs mono selections impact the KE dump on impact versus length of wound channel. End of the day, shot placement is key, and that point is clear. 6.5cm's low recoil and high BC selections have that in spades as long as the shooter does their job.

Did you read the 6.5 thread on this site? It has a lot of useful information in the form of real world results with a lot of data of what bullets do what and different impact velocities

Pictures of damage with information attached to the photos, it is a lot more useful than varying opinions on the internet of which most are not derived from experience (fudd lore)

“In theory” opinions on the internet are almost always useless and do nothing but muddy the waters, and that’s mostly what you’ll find with internet research

 

[pucmw11]

Did you read the 6.5 thread on this site? It has a lot of useful information in the form of real world results with a lot of data of what bullets do what and different impact velocities

Pictures of damage with information attached to the photos, it is a lot more useful than varying opinions on the internet of which most are not derived from experience (fudd lore)

“In theory” opinions on the internet are almost always useless and do nothing but muddy the waters, and that’s mostly what you’ll find with internet research

Yep, probably about 70 or so pages of it. A good read. Learning that if you put the right bullet into the right spot at the velocity needed for proper expansion/penetration, 6.5cm is more than adequate for Elk. Now I also see some stuff like, "Took bull at 850m with ELD-M" and I cringe a bit.

I will say that I wish .223 for deer was legal in CO because it seems supremely capable and my AR is on point.

Ultimately we as individuals have to know our limits and be ethical stewards of the amazing creatures we're privileged to hunt. If you're lights out at any distance...more power to you.

 

[Tmac]

It makes a lot of sense. Hard to rationalize every major posting pushing .30cal minimums with magnums preferred...but then I see all the real world 6.5 success that completely debunks it. At the end of the day, I want to continue to grow as a proficient rifleman, an ethical hunter, an educated reloader, and to also not lug a 12lb magnum into the rockies for a week...lol

Funny enough, I saw a post yesterday on a different forum stating that 7mm Rem Mag is too light for Elk. Half the internet data is laughable.

Your philosophy seems spot on.

That’s laughable, sad actually. A 7mm RM is very effective for elk. I often use a 280 REM, same bullet smaller engine, works very well.

There are some gun writers that have said a 338 Win Mag is the best elk cartridge. Clearly the elk they hunt have a layer of kevlar under their hide.

I know a very long time and successful outfitter, he prefers his cow elk hunters use a 243 over nearly any new to them magnum. Because they are not afraid of it and hit where they aim. There is a lesson in there the “internet” often misses.

I listen to those that have killed a few box cars full of elk. Most of those sort are not posting all over, but occasionally will offer their thoughts if asked.

Been a part of 3 elk and 1 buck kill in the last 5 weeks. 2 cows (7mm RM and 270 Win) and a nice bull (270 Win). All dead with the first shot, one was shot a second time because he had not fallen over yet. The Buck was with a 223 REM, one shot and done fairly quickly.

Small sample, but 3 of the 4 were with moderate cartridges and died as fast as the one hit with the magnum. A 6.5 CM would have worked just as well. Bullets used, in order, were 150, 140, 130 and 77 grains. Bonded, cup and core, and a mono bullets were all used.

The 3 most important factors for a quick kill, in order, are placement, placement, and placement.

 

[pucmw11]

That’s laughable, sad actually. A 7mm RM is very effective for elk. I often use a 280 REM, same bullet smaller engine, works very well.

There are some gun writers that have said a 338 Win Mag is the best elk cartridge. Clearly the elk they hunt have a layer of kevlar under their hide.

I know a very long time and successful outfitter, he prefers his cow elk hunters use a 243 over nearly any new to them magnum. Because they are not afraid of it and hit where they aim. There is a lesson in there the “internet” often misses.

I listen to those that have killed a few box cars full of elk. Most of those sort are not posting all over, but occasionally will offer their thoughts if asked.

Been a part of 3 elk and 1 buck kill in the last 5 weeks. 2 cows (7mm RM and 270 Win) and a nice bull (270 Win). All dead with the first shot, one was shot a second time because he had not fallen over yet. The Buck was with a 223 REM, one shot and done fairly quickly.

Small sample, but 3 of the 4 were with moderate cartridges and died as fast as the one hit with the magnum. A 6.5 CM would have worked just as well. Bullets used, in order, were 150, 140, 130 and 77 grains. Bonded, cup and core, and a mono bullets were all used.

The 3 most important factors for a quick kill, in order, are placement, placement, and placement.

Yep, that ole "Moose in the eye with a .22lr" adage. Sounds hokey, but there's some truth to it. At the end of the day...if you're missing vitals on something as sturdy as an Elk...they're gone, blood trail will likely be shit, and you won't recover that animal. As you said right, vitals and proper placement with a .243, dropping cows all day.

My current plan (here in about a week when I get my bonus) is to pick up a Tikka T3x Roughtech Ember in 6.5cm, slap a Trijicon Tenmile HX 3-18x44 on it with those lovely new UM low tikka rings, toss a hellfire match or an APA lil bastard (still deciding there) on the end, then pick up some ELD-M for the range days, some Nosler Accubond LR 142gr for the field days...and then practice till I burn out the first barrel. 8 ish ft-lbs of free recoil out of a sub-10lb setup that should be well sub-MOA and lights out with practice.

Very cool recounts there btw! Looking forward to joining the 6.5 gang here soon and hopefully next fall posting some recounts of my own on that 6.5 forum.

 

[willtim]

Call 20 elk outfitters and ask them.

 

[Short Track]

vortex video .308 vs 6.5 - Search Videos

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[JohnJohnson]

Honestly, when I saw the title of this thread I expected a lot of guys saying "no way, a 6.5 creedmor is not enough for elk". I love this group because people who actually know what they're talking about make real comments based on real life.

I think people around here get properly shamed enough to not say fuddlore crap other than a small subset of users. The way to make those guys come out is to talk about how your 7 pound .300 Win Mag isn't pleasant to shoot. Then all of a sudden your question just goes to show they're the last of a dying breed of REAL men who shoot 6 pound .375 H&H rifles and it never bothers them because they're built different.

 

[pucmw11]

I think people around here get properly shamed enough to not say fuddlore crap other than a small subset of users. The way to make those guys come out is to talk about how your 7 pound .300 Win Mag isn't pleasant to shoot. Then all of a sudden your question just goes to show they're the last of a dying breed of REAL men who shoot 6 pound .375 H&H rifles and it never bothers them because they're built different.

It is honestly wild how different the opinions are. Nearly every gun store or range warrior in Colorado prepping for a hunt seems to be .308, ,.300winmag, 7mm remmag, .338, or a break-your-shoulder 28/30 nosler. Nothing to back up the choices other than, "Big game big caliber".

Then on here, you have these "Ignore the energy" folks who're shooting 6.5's to 850yds on Elk, all about "placement and bullet selection", and using a 120-140ish gr accubond or ttsx to split hearts and feed their families successfully.

I love seeing the real world recounts to give credence that lighter can work really well IF you have good bullet placement, good bullet selection, and enough velocity at impact for the bullet to expand properly.

I suppose the market advises "Big game big caliber" so you don't have new or inexperienced hunters choosing the wrong bullet and/or placing it poorly? Easier to advise big and hope for an ethical kill instead of teaching the nuances required to ethically hunt with a smaller caliber maybe? Regardless...nice to have this community to offer old school knowledge that isn't readily given in one's local Cabelas.